Ford Now Offers Two Diesel Engines – Toyota Diesel Never?
Tim Esterdahl | Dec 11, 2012 | Comments 17
Toyota Tundra fans and would-be buyers have been clamoring for years for a diesel option that competes with other truck makers. It now looks like Toyota is going to fall further behind in diesel technology with Ford’s introduction of a turbo-diesel for a van. For those keeping score, Ford has two, GM/Chrysler-Fiat has one and Toyota still has zero.
Ford plans to use a new, turbo-diesel in the 2014 Transit van. This leaves Toyota farther behind, will it ever offer a diesel?
The 2014 Ford Transit van will have a turbo-diesel option according to a story on Pickuptrucks.com. The engine is a 3.2-liter inline-five engine that is currently being used in the “Global” Ford Ranger that isn’t for sale in the U.S. Ford has yet to publish any data on well the engine will perform. Currently, there are some rumors on a Power Stroke forum that suggest it will get 23 mpg in a one-ton version. It could mirror the Ranger which is rated at 197 horsepower and 347 pounds-feet of torque according to press release.
Always the big question when it comes to diesel is how it will pass the EPA requirements. Ford plans to use “selective catalytic reduction and a particulate filter” which is similar to its Super Duty 6.7-liter Power Stroke.
Ford says the technical features will include:
- Quick-start glow plugs that enable smooth and fast startups at temperatures down to 25 degrees F
- Durable, rigid sand-cast gray iron cylinder block
- Aluminum cylinder heads with double overhead cams and four valves per cylinder
- Advanced common rail piezoelectric fuel injectors that deliver multiple injections per stroke to improve performance and reduce NVH; maximum fuel pressure is 26,100 psi
- Variable nozzle turbocharger with electronic actuation; maximum impellor speed of 197,800 rpm
- First application of selective catalytic reduction for reduced nitrogen oxide emissions in a Ford van
- Integrated diesel oxidation catalyst and diesel particulate filter to save space
- Expected to be B20 biodiesel compatible
The plan is to use the engine with the Ford 6R80 six-speed transmission. It will be built in Port Elizabeth, South Africa and imported to Ford’s Kansas City Assembly Plant in Claycomo, MO.
Now that Ford will have two different diesel engines on the market and with more hints from GM that a new turbo-diesel for compact trucks is coming, will Toyota ever decide to build a diesel.
What do you think? Will Toyota respond with too little, too late or are they smartly sitting on the sidelines to see how well these turbo-diesels actually do?
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Filed Under: Auto News
Toyota already has been/still is using diesel engines for a long time in other parts of the world. Everything from cars to trucks, 4-cylinders to V8s. They don’t believe the US buying market is large enough to put money into developing an emissions control system that will pass strict US standards.
Agreed. We are talking about just the North American market though.
-Tim
depends on how u look at it. for the u.s. market, not really, only the superduty had a diesel. vans r not trucks. suvs r more truck than any van.. world wide, yes ford does have 2 diesels, ranger n superduty. but if ur counting the van as a truck, well..in toyotos defense, the hilux offers a 2.5 n a 3.0 disel, while the landcruiser offers a 4.5 diesel. so really, ford isn’t the the 1st…
Ricqik,
Agreed that the van is not a truck, but we aren’t really talking about specifics. We are talking total diesel engines. In that sense, Ford now offers two.
-Tim
I think Toyota is going to surprise everyone sometime in the near future with a great desiel.
I find it hard to believe they’re not doing something in this market.
I would think some simple market surveys by the Toyota (USA) corporate marketing folks would reveal that there truly is a North American market for a diesel engine. If they let the U.S. design and manufacturing team build it, I believe they would have little difficulty passing the EPA standards. I say, build it and they (prospective diesel Tundra buyers) will come.
BriBri,
Agreed. However, the Toyota marketing folks seem to say there is no market. It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
-Tim
sorry, my post was kinda in response to putc, their title says ford is 1st with 2 diesel truck engines..then seeing the same topic here…. while here it just says ford has 2 diesels. tundrahq has a more fitting topic title than the bias putc… which is very well influenced by mr levine who works for ford..
Ricqik,
No worries. I saw the same title at PUTC and thought it was a bit misleading myself.
-Tim
I agree with Toyota, I don’t think there’s much of a market for a diesel, except for diesel diehards. Diesel fuel prices bounce around quite a bit and spike in the winter; diesel is now consistently priced about 25% more the gas. Diesel fuel pumps are usually filthy and the stuff is nasty to pump–ever notice the plastic glove boxes? And finally, the extra cost of a diesel package takes about 5 years to recoup the cost. Personally, I would stick with a gaser. Oh yeah, diesel engines are becoming more complicated than gas engines and will cost more to repair when they break down.
Agreed! Unless the MPGs are greater than 25 and the initial cost of the engine comes down, you won’t find one of the smelly beasts in my driveway.
Brian J,
You are hitting the nail on the head as to why American’s aren’t buying diesels in droves.
-Tim
I wonder if doing fleet or commercial sales might be profitable for the Tundra. I am thinking particularly about those entities that already have diesel heavy equipment in their arsenal (to make use of the mechanics) or companies/entities (e.g., courier/shipping, municipal/state DOT) that put a lot of miles on their vehicles, especially highway miles. Do the Ford/Chevy HDs have many entries in this customer segment?
In the end, I concede that Toyota would have to have a diesel powerplant that is more efficient than the competition.
BriBri,
I have contended that Toyota doesn’t build the Tundra to be a “work truck” per se. Instead, they really just needed a product in the full-size category so its other customers who wanted to move up from its popular passenger cars/SUVs line have an option. If they viewed the Tundra as more of a work truck and a true competitor to Ford/GM, they would have a 3/4-ton, 1-ton diesel option and a fleet option.
And yes, Ford/GM have many fleets sales to its credit. One could also make the connection that if you drive a Ford F-350 at work for a work truck, it isn’t too much of a leap that you would consider an F-150 for your personal truck. Toyota is missing those customers completely.
-Tim
Perhaps current public (or prospective buyer) perception would have to be overcome for a Tundra to be considered a serious ‘work truck’. Ford and Chevy do a very good job promoting their lineup (even the base F-150s and Silverados) as work-trucks moreso than simply daily-drivers. If most peoples’/prospective buyers’ minds are already programmed to immediately think of Ford and Chevy as the go-to workt-truck options, then Toyota has a big hurdle to jump.
I truly hope Toyota eventually decides to take the risk and jump into this segment, as I believe they have the design/engineering/manufacturing talent to make a competitive work-truck. Even if it’s a loss-leader for the first couple years, I believe the Tundra could prove itself a worthy work-truck much as it has done with the current Tundra.
BriBri,
Agreed. It is the big “elephant” in the room. I mean Toyota is doing a good job with advertising to say that the Tundra can pull the space shuttle, it can also pull your boat. However, the American “common sense” is that you should really have a 3/4 or 1-ton diesel powered truck for that job. While we can agree about how correct/incorrect that assumption is that fact is that changing that perception is going to be harder than building a big 3/4- or 1-ton Toyota. My two cents.
-Tim
i agree with Brian J’s comment entirely unless 25mpg and only about 1-2 grand more for the diesel engine in a 1/2 ton truck, won’t be seeing me in one anytime soon and so does most of the American public I think. Why is a diesel needed in any 1/2 ton truck really when the 5.7l will pull anything a 1/2 ton suspension could handle? I think people are missing the point and the tundra needs to come out in a 3/4 and 1 ton version along wtih a diesel engine all at once.