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Tundra v. F150 -- Part I: Mechanicals | Tundra Headquarters Blog

Tundra v. F150 — Part I: Mechanicals

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UPDATE:

This comparison is from 2007 and is out-dated. Check out our 2009 Tundra vs. F-150 comparison instead.

As promised, we’re going to deliver a comprehensive comparison of the new 2007 Toyota Tundra to the best-selling truck in the world, the Ford F150. We’re going to start with the mechanical systems and components of the truck, specifically items where either manufacturer has a clear edge. This isn’t an exhaustive comparison, but it is going to give anyone considering both vehicles some helpful information.

Let Round One of Tundra v. F150 begin!!

ENGINE:

Ford’s venerable 5.4L 24valve V8 has been around for a long time. The engine first saw production in 1997, with the latest incarnation, the clever 24 valve, first being produced in 2004. The 24 valve design comes from a sort of hybrid DOHC/SOHC set-up. The intake side has 2 separate valves and the exhaust side has only one. The idea is to provide more power and efficiency with 2 intake valves while reducing cost, complexity, and power loss by using only one exhaust valve. Fewer moving parts. The 5.4L Triton 3V produces 300HP at 5,000 RPM and 365lb-ft of torque at 3,750 RPM. The 5.4L Triton also uses some variable cam timing to increase power and efficiency. The engine’s reliability is average, with only a handful of issues known (some of the earlier motors blew spark-plugs out of the heads if not properly maintained, leading to full cylinder head replacement). Most impressively, this engine delivers nearly 300lb-ft of torque at only 1,000 RPM. Ford also offers a 4.6L V8, but most people purchase the 5.4 so it will not be discussed here.

Toyota’s 5.7L 32 valve V8 is brand new. Like all Toyota products, this engine uses a DOHC arrangement to generate a class-leading 381HP at 5,600 RPM and 401lb-ft of torque at 3,600 RPM. The biggest benefit to the DOHC system is excellent efficiency, with near complete combustion possible even at high RPM. The 5.7L also utilizes dual variable valve timing, meaning an incredible amount of electronic control over engine performance at a variety of RPMs. The 5.7L’s ability to generate 27% more horsepower with only 6% more displacement speaks volumes. While no reliability info is available yet, Toyota’s reputation leads us to believe this engine will be reliable.

WINNER: Toyota. Better engine electronics and better engine design lead to better performance.

TRANSMISSION:

With the aforementioned 5.7L, Toyota provides a 6-speed automatic. Ford only offers a 4-speed automatic. The additional gears help the Tundra to outperform the F150 not only in terms of acceleration and power, but also in terms of fuel economy. Toyota’s powertrain, even though it is 25% more powerful, has the same EPA rating as the F150 powertrain. 14mpg city and 18mpg highway.

WINNER: Toyota offers six speeds, Ford offers four. Six is better than four. Toyota wins again.

BRAKES:

Both the Ford and the Toyota feature 4 wheel disc brakes with 4 wheel ABS standard. Furthermore, both vehicles have dual piston calipers up-front, and all four rotors are ventilated. Toyota’s front rotors are 13.9 inches in diameter, while Ford’s are only 13. Both Ford and Toyota have Electronic Brake Force Distribution systems.

When it comes to comparing brakes, the best comparison is performance. Edmunds.com conducted a test of the new 04′ F150 in 2004 — they used an extended cab 4×4 long box for the test. Edmunds.com measured a 60mph stop distance of 145.5 feet (empty truck). A 2007 Toyota Tundra double cab 4×4 limited short box was also tested by Edmunds.com. This vehicle measured a 60mph stop distance of 131 feet (also empty). All things being equal, the Tundra stops about 10% better than the Ford when similarly equipped. As far as brake fade and use during towing, larger rotors dissipate heat better than smaller rotors, leading us to conclude that the Toyota might be better for towing than the F150. The reality here is that no matter which truck you purchase, you’re going to stop pretty well.

WINNER: Toyota, but by a small margin. The good news is both these trucks stop pretty well.

FRAME:

This is the only area where Toyota might suffer. While the Tundra has a fully reinforced ladder type frame, it is obvious this frame was developed from a unibody chassis. Even though unibody frame strength has come a long way in the last decade, we can’t help but think that the strongest design is a traditional (albeit heavy) body on frame design. Ford’s frame is fully boxed from head to toe, while most of Toyota’s frame is a “C” channel. We don’t think that there’s anything wrong with Toyota’s design, but we think Ford’s design is better. However, the F150’s frame is significantly heavier. It’s probably a toss-up, but we think we need to let Ford win this one (just to keep it kinda close).

WINNER: Ford. Fully boxed frame from head to toe, true body-on-frame truck design.

PAYLOAD:

How much can you put in the back of a Toyota Tundra? The maximum payload rating for the truck is 2,065 lbs, but that’s for a regular cab long bed 5.7L with 2wd. Show of hands that are going to buy that configuration? Anyone? That’s what we thought. The most likely truck is probably a double cab 4×4 5.7L standard bed, which can haul 1,580 pounds.

As for the F150, the max payload is 3,060 lbs, but that is also a regular cab long bed 5.4L with 2wd. An extended cab 4×4 5.4L with a 6.5 foot bed is rated to haul 1,710 lbs, or about 130lbs more than the Tundra. But, payload capacity is only half the question. Both vehicles offer built in tie downs, and both feature a tailgate assist feature. However, only the Toyota offers a slam-proof tailgate. We’ve all slammed a tailgate before and we know how much that can hurt if it hits a knee on the way down (or, even worse, you try to catch it as it falls and you end up hurting something else too). In any case, the two trucks are both close.

In our opinion, payload isn’t too big of a factor for most people buying these two trucks. Obviously, if you’re looking for a cheap work truck that can haul a lot, then the Ford is the one. On the other hand, if you’re an occasional hauler, Toyota’s tailgate feature compensates for it’s slightly lower payload rating.

WINNER: A tie. A push. Next topic.

TOWING:

Again, we see that the marketing geniuses at both Ford and Toyota are up to no good. Toyota says their truck can tow up to 10,800 lbs, and Ford now says their truck can tow 11,000 lbs, both “when properly equipped.” Just like before, these are both pretty odd trucks for anyone to buy that isn’t a commercial operator. Comparing the same 4×4 extended/double cab trucks with the same bed lengths, Toyota comes out on top. The Tundra double cab 4×4 5.7L standard bed can pull 10,300 lbs. The same F150 is only rated to pull 8,200 lbs.

WINNER: Toyota, buy a Ton(dra). Get it?!

In conclusion, Tundra’s more sophisticated powertrain gives it the edge in the mechanical performance department. Once again, Toyota has demonstrated a commitment to quality and ingenuity that supersedes that of it’s closest domestic competitor.

Up next for our comparison, Features and Pricing. Stay tuned.

Filed Under: Toyota Tundra Reviews and Comparisons

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  1. justin says:

    So, you are saying, in conclusion, the Toyota wins because it has a bigger engine and a 6 speed? Did you realize the Ford has a VERY high percentage of its torque at 1000rpm, so you don’t need to change gears as much?? And Toyota’s truck reliability is going to be great just because their I4s V6s are reliable? That is a logical fallacy.

  2. Kyle says:

    “In our opinion, payload isn

  3. admin says:

    Justin: I understand that the Toyota’s new engine lacks reliability data, but Toyota does have an excellent track record. But you are correct, previous reliability is no indicator of future reliability. As for the 6-speed v. 4-speed, I encourage you to drive the two. You will notice the difference immediately.

    Kyle, I think you have a point, but I ask you, how many people do you know that have never hauled anything bigger than furniture? Here in Colorado, it’s common to see five or ten year old trucks without a scratch in the bed. The reality is that a lot of people that buy trucks don’t NEED them. We think that is especially true with the more luxurious models.

  4. […] is the third and final part of our comparison series Tundra v. F150.

  5. Paul says:

    “Here in Colorado, it

  6. ktexas04 says:

    Well when someone buys a truck, low end torgue is a huge advantage when towing/hauling. The idea is to get your cargo moving easier. A station wagon could move a loaded trailer (all while stressing) but not easily. The FORD does it better and easier, and all the while doing it safer for the passengers. I should not buy a truck and have to floor it to get weight moving. SAFETY is a serious issue for ALL vehicles. Ford may be heavier, but what would you rather be driving in the event of an accident? When I’m driving in traffic I much more concerned about my safety than being able to get 6,000 RPM’s through 6 gears out of a pickup truck.

  7. Mott says:

    As an owner of 4 f-150’s in a row, I have driven the new Toyota Tundra. I can say that the Toyota Tundra with the 5.7 liter engine is one hell of a truck. The new F-150’s have superb handling, and reliability etc. but the engine seems sluggish. I do favor the more responsive 5.7 engine in the Tundra’s. Both are great trucks. It is whatever you feel most comfortable with. Both are winners.

    Mott

  8. khuji says:

    hey ford make the most reliavbe trucks and not ford out pull and out payloads toyata truck are for people who only haul groceries

  9. khuji says:

    okay smart guys you all know ford is the best ive have 8 ford trucks and not a problem with nay of them toyata are durable, there not work trucks there for peopel who drive there kids to soccer practice for trucks are for peopel who carry 3000 ounds and tow 11000 so there, all ford needs is a dohc and more accelaration, face it you want a good truck buy a ford

  10. Jack says:

    As a long time Ford owner I have to admit I am looking pretty hard at the Toyota. It looks impressive, for the first time I think I might stray. I am in the market for a new truck, but I think the twin turbo Ford is a whole mess of problems. I have a 7.3 powerstroke, what a joke. I own a trailer sales, and I think the Toyota will tow everything I need. I think it may be a step up from my F250. I just hope it is as comfortable. I am sorry I feel this way, but I think Ford is in for a butt kicking this year. I hope they come up with something better!

  11. Tom says:

    I have owned 9 F-150, three of which transmissions had to be replaced. I have a brother in law who allows me to use his D plan. Tremendous savings..But, when I test drove the Tundra 5.7, I was very impressed. No, rumble when pulling out, smoother shifting, braking smashes F-150. Yes, Ford drives with better suspension, but these are trucks. So that wasn’t an issue…My issue with Ford, Is when are they going to start giving service. THeir service has slipped hugely because of complacency..They felt they had the market, well Toyota will soon smash their competition…Besides Toyota having superior service, and customer relations, if you look on the panel on the inside jamb of drivers side, you will also see that every single Toyota is made in America. Mine was..The last 6 Fords that I have owned, made in Canada..Is this a mistake, or is it greed. Or is it that the American worker with very good management can out perform every single car mfg. in the world…Hey Ford, GMC, watch what Toyota is doing. Not only is it a better Truck, overall, they don’t have lots of repairs, just your everyday maintenance…Hum, is that something..Look at all of the Toyota products, SUPERIOR to American Mfg. In every way, by far, the Toyota is my choice for driving now and in the future..Before I will go back to Ford, they have to prove to me that thier product is superior in everyway. Plus they better improve in their servicing of the customer, cuz right now, it stinks..End of story…On a small note, I drive my truck well over 40k a year, do you…

  12. Tom says:

    Hey Jack, just a small note to you..I dont have a vendetta with Ford..SInce I have owned alot of their trucks, service has gone down hill, big time…Service is very important to me…And since most or all Toyotas have very little problems as in repairs, well, that is what sold me..But, it is every bit as comfortable as any Ford,chevy,gmc,dodge, been in all of em…This Truck, I am telling you, kicks the living **it out of all their competitors..Besides, I will not buy a foreign made car in this day and age…All Toyotas are made by American workers in America, they employee of 80,000 americans, they just have better mgmt…So if you want a change, this is the truck…Its a Blast to drive, pulled an 8200lb Scottie to camp, with very little effort….The transmission is much more superior than anything I have driven…My sister has a Sequioa, in Colorado, has 172k on it, she drives up over Pikes Peak in Colorado Springs, has never had a problem, changes oil regularly, brakes, and what not, she swears by it…I am sold, 2000% Amen

  13. Tom says:

    Hey Khuji, with a name like that I doubt very seriously you have owned 8 trucks, let alone have lived In AMerica long enough to own them…I have pulled many times in F-150’s, not anytime did it compart to the power and smooth driving of a Toyota..By the way guys, I own a Toyota Tundra 5.7, you people are talking about the F-150, go and buy a Toyota Tundra, or test drive one, and then come back with your honest results..I have over 22k on mine since middle of February, yes I can say, Ford is a good truck, but in comparison to the record of Toyota with all of their vehicles, and if you compare to Ford, their is no comparison…What vehicle is even close in quality to the camry, or the corolla, I have a Ford Focus, junk, getting rid of it and going to a small toyota, you can beat these cars, you cant beat ford, period…So my suggestion to all of you who know so much about Trucks, own Nine in fifteen yrs, and then go buy the Toyota Tundra 5.7, drive it for 3 months, then come back to me a give me your expert opinion..And make sure you are not an Illegal Alien, trying to make an impression…It doesn’t work,,,And also go to school and learn the true history of this country, how it was founded, and learn to speak English, pay your taxes and health ins. bills, and then I will listen to your uneducated opinions…

  14. Jason says:

    I, personally, would buy the Ford, i am, and will always be a true-blue ford man. i have driven ford trucks since i was 12 years old, and will probably never buy anything else. call me stubburn, but thats the way i am. besides, toyota has a long road ahead of them before they can prove their worth against the F150 (the best selling truck in the WORLD!!!!) and has been for 20-something years.

    a side note on that statement in the artical “In our opinion, payload isn

  15. admin says:

    Jason, check out the 3rd comment. No one can deny a substantial portion of truck buyers do not haul payloads often, and some people never. Most pickups, unless used for commercial purposes, spend most of their lives empty. To us, that means the total payload rating isn’t that important.

    Besides, the Ford Ext. Cab was only rated 130lbs higher, hardly enough to get excited about. Is that your point?

  16. joe says:

    I love to see all of these toyo fanboys going at it. Sure the f150 may be lagging in some areas but the truth is that the f150 is a better truck. they last for decades and can take the abuse. As for the tundra i am sure this had to be published before the engine parts started to snap. In 09 the f150 will be out redesigned with a line of boss engines and diesels, and probably even better suspensions that will leave the tundra a mile behind. Sorry but the tundra does not cut it. It looks as if the engineers just took the front of a deformed 1997 dodge with the back of a titan and the cab form of the silverado.

  17. Justin says:

    Why say this in the frame portion “This is the only area where Toyota might suffer.” Clearly shows a biased opinion. Right there shows it was not an honest review.

    It’s also stated that “We don

  18. Justin says:

    Wow, the F150 wins in payload, but more excuses are made for the Toyota to equal a tie. If you’re going to compare trucks, don’t only use the items that give the Toy the advantage, you have to use everything. Just cause you or people you see/know don’t put anything in the bed, doesn’t mean others don’t. So to be honest and unbiased, the Ford should have won in payload, no matter if it’s only a small margin.

    Admin: I’m here in Denver CO, I see these scratchless trucks, but check the construction yards, what dominates the roads here in CO? And how many of these scratchless trucks actually tow anything larger than a jet ski or two, or put anything in the bed larger than a dryer/washer? I’d agree the Toy wins in tow rating, but you have to admit the Ford wins in payload. Don’t be subjective and dishonest in factoring the best truck. Just cause one is better than the other in certain areas you have to disregard that factor all together. Just shows this review was done in poor taste.

  19. Virg says:

    Just switched from a Ford 150 Lariat (great truck with over 100k) to the Tundra double cab with the 5.7. I drove a bundle of truck during my decision phase and just could not get away from the Tundra’s drive train superiority. Acceleration, smoothness, and power were there in force, and the final great deal the dealer offered couldn’t be turned down

    Now…we’ll see if the longivity’s there. Time will tell. I’m keeping my 2002 Mercury Grand Marquis for another six years though.

  20. admin says:

    The Grand Marquis/Crown Vic is unstoppable – one of the last body-on-frame cars in existence. No wonder all the cops like em’.

  21. tom a says:

    in response to the “nothing beats a toyota in quality type comments”- the ford fusion and mercury milan both topped the camry in two different reliability reports for fewest problems per thousand cars sold. for those considering a truck go to a ford dealer and ask a salesperson to play the Rick Titus DVD comparing the Tundra and the F150 to see all the advantages Ford has in build. Oh, and try sitting in the Tundra if you’re tall- I’m 6’3″ and had about a finger width worth of headroom in the backseat and not much more in the front seat. And push in on the backdoor- feels more like a plastic toy than a truck. The cosmetics of the trucks will win their followers regardless of make. When it comes down to how a truck is built you can take all the best elements of all the other trucks and you won’t have one built as well as the F150- from the fully boxed frame to the larger front suspension/coil over shock system to the wider rear springs to the six inch bolts attaching the box to the frame. No wonder it is 5 star crash test rated- which other trucks have that? Tip of the hat to Toyota and Chevy/GMC for recognizing their previous designs lagged behind Ford and for copying, albeit poorly, many of the best features of the F150. There is a reason Ford continues to outsell all other auto lines and it comes down to the quality and safety and utility of the F150.

  22. Juan says:

    Hey everybody that has a great history with a F150, look at the name of this website, youre on the wrong page because obviously a tundra website is not going to say the F150 is better!

  23. Justin says:

    Juan: I think we all understand the new Tundra is superior to the F150 in many areas. We all must agree that the F150 is superior to the Tundra in some areas as well, same with the Ram. I have no allegiance to any particular make/model, whether it’s domestic or import, full size, mid size or compact. Everyone who visits this site should undrstand this site will be Tundra biased, just like a Chevy site will be biased towards Chevy or GM.

    After reading the Tundra vs. Ram/F150 reviews, the site clearly gives the Tundra a win in any area it is superior. While in areas that the Ram/F150 are superior, the site downplays these factors as non-issues or non-factors, giving the Ram/F150 a slight edge. I have no problem with this site stating the Tundra is the better overall truck, it’s probably true. It’s the whole fact that if the Tundra doesn’t have the advantage in a particular area, that item supposedly doesn’t mean anything to the consumer.

    An example is the Rams retractable step bars. The reviews say they loved them and wished the tTndra hand them, but then go on to say “we don

  24. philip says:

    just wondering how the truck sales ratings stand up just comparing normal owners not all of the work truck sales.just wondering.awww you can never win with some people

  25. tyler says:

    I don’t want to get mixed up in all of the arguing back and forth like i see on this site.I just want to say that whether the toyota is better than the FORD or not,im gonna buy FORD.It’s because it’s what im comfortable with its what i know,like a friend thats been around as long as you can remember.My father had a ’79 F-100 ,300 straight six,three on the tree.It was the most abused truck i think ive ever seen,and it never let us down.I’ll always have great memories of that truck.And with my father it was never a question of how much the truck could handle, it was a question of how much more could we squeeze on her.Thats why i’ll buy FORD.

  26. Mike says:

    I had three brand new Ford trucks and they were the worst vehicles I have ever owned by far. Now the new Tundra has more reliability and quality issues than any Truck they have ever built. I’ve owned two Toyota trucks and they have been awesome.

    Only Half the Ford people I talked to out on the road say they would buy their Ford agin. That’s pretty bad.

    I think I’ll be waiting for Toyota to build the Tundra like a real truck in 09.
    Who cares about fast? I want a truck that can be used like a truck.
    If they don’t I’ll be looking at the GMC Sierra.

  27. wayne says:

    MY mom has a 1997 toyota T100 and only had to replace oil,brakes pad’s,wiper blade’s,tire’s,spark plug’s. I just sold my 1999 5.4 liter v8 sport F150 that i had to replace every thing but the valve stem cap’s just to keep it on the road!.Don’t get me wrong at least the part’s are cheap.

  28. Marc says:

    Thanks for the thoughtful review. Admin – can you explain the frame comment. I haven’t read the Tripletech frame was derived from a unibody, instead I’ve heard the frame more closely resembles 3/4 ton designs. Besides I’m not sure a unibody hybrid would be inferior – you’d get a better ride, better crash test results perhaps, and the traditional frame strength…

  29. admin says:

    Marc, the frame is a bit of a mystery. Some people claim it’s similar to a 3/4 ton design, but that might be an oversimplification. Most frames are pretty similar.

    The fact is that Toyota rejected the “fully boxed” frame design favored by their competitors. We think it’s because they had confidence in their own experience with unibody design and decided to improve upon what they already knew.

  30. Marc says:

    Perhaps someone knows the answer, but I believe Toyota manufactures “heavy duty” commercial vehicles overseas. I’d love to know why Toyota chose the Tundra frame they did. They certainly had plenty of their own designs to choose from, like the fully-boxed Sequoia, or the aforementioned commercial trucks, or their unibodies, and on and on… If only we knew what’s responsible for the bed bounce.

  31. Nacho says:

    After how horrendous my experience with my Yaris has been, I’ll NEVER buy Toyota again. Not only is the car a cheap pile of crap, service at the dealer is nearly non-existent and even the manufacturer will not stand behind this car. The warranty is useless because they’re not willing to fix anything that is wrong, they just say “it’s within factory specs.” The factory says “We have to go by the dealer, what does the customer know?”

    Down with Toyota.

  32. Brian says:

    Does anyone know how the Tundra compares to the Ford F350 with the 7.3 turbo diesel?
    I find it hard to believe that the Tundra could even come close to this awesome truck.
    Not knowing much about the Tundra, I’m assuming it’s in the F150 class as far as power and payload???

  33. Justin says:

    Brian: There is really little to compare when talking about the Tundra and F350. The Tundra is a 1/2 ton, while the F350 is a 1 ton, huge difference in all aspects. The 7.3L has been discontinued in 2003, replaced by the 6.0L, which has since been replaced by the 6.4L. The F350 w/7.3L was an awesome truck, but the 7.3L was discontinued due to emissions regulations. Of course the F350 has a higher payload and towing capacity, while the Tundra has many more creature comforts and smoother ride. This is a bad comparison though, kind of like comparing a Ranger 4.0L to the Tundra 5.7L. We

  34. matt says:

    Anyone that preaches Toyota is American ahs manure for their brains. When yo buy one of those japanese vehicles….no matter where it is assembled 90%+ of the money goes back to Japan. I dropped my subscription to Field & Stream becasue of the sickening toyota advertisements. They have their ‘Heros in Consrvation” and say how they care about our country and envionment. There country is Japan NOT AMerica. They take out exponentionally more than what they give. They hurt thsi country many tiem sove more than they help. Ha Ha dumb America..we win japan win. Coem on people pull your head out.

  35. admin says:

    Matt – If a company is incorporated, the profits are distributed to their shareholders. Therefore, it’s unfair to say that Toyota’s profits “go overseas”. The location and identity of the shareholders is unknown. The same can be said of GM, Ford, and any other large international company. While you might be able to argue that a lot of Toyota R&D jobs, accounting jobs, etc. are in Japan, that’s hardly an indictment of Toyota. After all, haven’t Ford, GM, and Dodge all moved jobs overseas? Ford has multiple plants in Mexico as a matter of fact, and many F150’s are made in Cuautitlan. Since Ford has jobs overseas, does that mean we shouldn’t buy Ford either? While I will admit that Toyota probably pulls more out of the USA than they put in, that’s hardly a reason to favor one manufacturer over another. Remember, if your F150’s VIN# starts with a 3, it was made in Mexico.

  36. Dan says:

    Why does Toyota have a website to put down Ford. It seems they are scared. No one metions that in 2007 with the new Tundra’s, the drive shaft was breaking at the FRONT SIDE of the the REAR PROPELLER SHAFT. This could result in loss of that so powerful engine to the rear wheels, good thinking. Take more of the wanna be trucks off the road. Keep on trying to hang with the big trucks and maybe one day you will get it right. Oh by the way wheres your heavily duty line.

  37. admin says:

    Dan – First of all, we’re not affiliated with Toyota. This is an independent site. Second of all, we felt we treated the Ford pretty fairly. If you read our summary, you’ll see we think both trucks are quite good. We just thought the Toyota was a little better.

  38. Jason Siekierski says:

    Look. I sell Fords for a living, but i recognize that i need to be open minded when it comes to comparisons. i never bashed the tundra. the customers who want to trade them have. i like to test a truck for its credentials by figuring out how it is made, foundation up. grab a hold of the tailgate of a tundra and start pulling. this truck cant handle the twisting you are doing by hand. do the same thing with a ford. very stable and tough truck. if you have ever seen a tundra over a cobblestone test, it is embarrasing. the bed actually bangs up and dents the cab, while the ford doesnt even move. the ford is the proven tough truck, and the market leader for 31 years for a reason.

  39. Mickey says:

    This is for all you ford lovers. How good is a truck when you constantly have a check engine light for a 400 code. How many times does it take to fix this problem? I pass 10x. Each time they tried it came down to the computer. They ordered and replaced computer just to have the #5 cylinder to miss out. Replaced with a computer from a truck on the lot. Guess what? You got it the #5 cylinder missed out. Put original computer back in truck ran fine but check engine light comes on with 400 code. Well Ford comes up with a bright idea let’s run a wire outside the harness to the sensor. Since when you jerry-rigged a part to work? Not very promising. After the tenth time everyone tells you we can’t fix your truck. My salesman talked me into ordering a new truck to replace the one I got. Finally someone makes sense. Takes 4-6 weeks. After 4 1/2 weeks I get a phone call from my saleman that truck will be in 3 days. I’m okay with that but I got another phone call from the service dept. to bring truck in. Well thinking the truck came in early I went in just to run into a factory rep to fix the truck. So now truck in the shop for the 11x to try and fix computer. The factory rep says it’s fix and my saleman tells me to come in tomorrow truck will be in that evening. So when I come in the next day I’m told my truck is fixed and no new truck. That pushed the boiling edge. After having a 97 Thunderbird in shop 27x in 5 years then 03 Crown Victoria LX Sport in shop 22x in 4 years then this with the truck. I don’t care how good your tow hooks are. I traded that crap ford the next day. If you’re constantly in the shop and you get jerked around like this how can you tell me that a ford is dependable much less better than another vehicle. If this is how Ford treats customers I can see why Ford went down. I need to see more than what some magazine or comparison can do for ford for me to look that way.

  40. Justin says:

    Mickey:

    Sounds like you’ve had some bad experiences with Ford. Whether the # of visits to the shop are accurate or not, I can not say. Sounds excessive to me, but I did not own these vehicles. I’ve owned an ’80 F150, ’85 Ranger, ’99 Ranger, ’99 Explorer, ’02 F150 & now an ’06 F150. The only vehicle that ever had problems other than normal upkeep was the ’99 Explorer, that thing was a money pit. There are people out there with situations similar to yours, as well as similar to mine. Episodes like yours will turn customers off to a brand, no matter if it’s a toaster or an auto. Just like people who’ve experienced the Toyota engine sludge, Sienna door opening by itself and now the Tacoma frame rust on 95-00 models may turn people away from Toyota. So all makes have their goods and bads. I’ve also found that many times a dealer and their service dept can greatly impact a persons impression of a make/model. I know I’ll never visit certain dealerships due to their jerking around and/or their inexperienced service dept.

    Now is the F150 or Tundra better, that depends on the person, their likes/dislikes, their needs/wants and how they’ll be using the truck. I’m not one to bash either truck, as I chose the truck that I like and am happy with my decision. Biggest issue has been the replacement of a speaker that cracked. Otherwise the truck has been bullet proof. I personally like Toyota releasing the new Tundra with some of the features it provides. This only makes the other manufacturers improve upon their product. Everyone is always trying to one up the other, so even though I drive what I drive, I applaud Toyota on the Tundra. It has it’s issues, but so does every other truck, car or product on the market today.

  41. Mickey says:

    Justin I was always a chevy man. When I had such a bad deal from a chevy dealership trying to buy a silverado trading in a 92 Sonoma was terrible so I did this on a pissed off mood at chevy and went next door and bought the 97 Ford Thunderbird. I pretty much liked the design, and I didn’t have it a week and I had cruise control problem. I bought in in New Orleans and I was stationed in Norfolk, Va. On my way the cruise control would slow down to 40 mph going up a hill and turn off. Well to make the story short it took 3 dealerships to get it fixed. The first I wouldn’t let them touch it with a ten foot pole. Female service adviser along with a tech rep tried to tell me it’s uppose to slow down going up a hill. I didn’t want to say a word, but go get my car and you won’t touch a thing. Well I did get it fixed problem was the cruise control box which is sealed was full of water. They asked me all questions where I been with the car. I haven’t been in rain in over a month. I hate when you get treated like you were dumb. I’ve been through GM school in 76 and worked at chevy 76-77. My worst times were when rear bearing went out and caused other damage not covered under warranty. The other being the 02 sensors. Both cannisters. The check engine light and the rumble strip in tranny. Wife loved the car. When it went out of warranty the intake cracked. Ford covered it so they didn’t have to do a recall but 2 days later the radiator cracked. So I just traded it in on what she liked was a 03 Crown Victoria LX sport. I loved the ride in this car. You can say perfect. But like the T-bird the window problems rumble strip tranny. Check engine light for sensors also. But we wanted to keep this car because of the ride. The fun side was cops thought we were cops also. The Wedgewood blue color was dark blue with a purple tint in the evenings. People thought we were cops soming up on them so they slowed down. It was fun the first two years then it was time to move on. It wasn’t in the shop as many times as the T-bird but the wife wanted a new vehicle cheaper on gas since we bought a new house and her job was 35 miles away when before she was 7 miles away. Hence she did her research and I tried like hell to keep a ride like the Vic but she wanted a hybrid. Now she has a Prius. When I traded the F-150 in I bought an 06 Silverado LT3 Ext Cab. This had everything but and a piece of crap sunroof. The truck totally sucked Justin 8x for a headliner. Brakes vibrated 2x and was starting to do it again. Both tail lights fell off scratching the paint and scuffing the lens. You think they would replace the lens? Hell no! I was treated worse by chevy than anything before. So when the wife traded her Vic in I went and traded for a Tundra. Trying something new on both sides. I look at it like this if Toyota fails me then I’ll be back in a Ford. I won’t look at a Dodge, Nissan, and Chevy. My friends are trying to get me back into a GMC instead of chevy but they are the same as far as I’m concern. I don’t take getting burned to likely. I was loyal to one company and I will never do that again. I will stay with the product that does me right. I paid too much money to have the hassles I’ve been having. So for only having one issue fixed on my Tundra at 15,000 miles which was a matter of convienence the pass mirror wouldn’t auto close and I’m at 22,000 miles and we bought these vehicles in July 07. So I’m pretty happy right now. I know the differences and preferences, but I’m enjoying finally a product that is doing what it’s suppose to do. Stay on the road.

  42. Justin says:

    Mickey: Wow, sorry to hear about all the hassles and ordeals you had with the Chevy’s and Ford’s. I know both had many problems from the early/mid ’90’s through the early 00’s. This is kind of why I kept away from purchasing a 90’s domestic ofr quite a while. Now my ’99 Ranger was basically flawless but was a basic model with no bells/whistles, and like your Vic, it was the Wedgewood Blue. I know many people didn’t know if it was blue, black or purple. All depended on the way the light was shining at that moment. Now like I stated, my ’99 Explorer 5.0 AWD Limited had all the bells and whistles, but dang if not every option had a problem at one point (power antenna motor, Rack/Pinion steering, rear wiper, driver seat heater core, front hubs, IAC, DPFE, Ignition Coils and more). So I’m sure many others had similar problems with as you did and I did with the Explorer. Can’t say I’ve ever experienced a problem with a Chevy, since the only one I ever owned was a ’69 Camaro which was basically rebuilt from the ground up, but I’ve heard plenty of horror stories about the headliners.

    Glad to hear you’re enjoying the Tundra, seems to be a nice truck overall. Still being in it’s first two model years, I am holding back any judgement on the truck until it’s been through the some abuse and times tested. We all know the first two model years of any newely redesigned vehicle is gonna have issues, just like the F150 did in ’04 (officially released in mid ’03) and ’05. I’ve been starting to see more around lately, but mostly the Dbl Cabs not many Reg or Crew cabs. So good luck with your truck and hope it proves to be a wise purchase and gives the domestics something to worry about so they improve upon their product.

  43. matt says:

    Check it out, if you sell Ford all you need to do is so anyone considering a Tundra the owners manual. Under the maintenance so them where you have to retorque the CHASSIS mount bolts every 5,000 miles, the PROPELLER SHAFT every 15,000 if you dont tow and every 5,000 if you do. Does FORD need this done NO!!! They have been doing this more than 12 years. Its a replay of the T100. They should NOT come loose!!! But wait it gets better spark plugs every 30,000 miles no matter what and CHECK the VALVE clearence every 60,000 miles. Yes thats right a VALVE job. So what does this mean well Toyota doesnt pay for scheduled maintenance, thats what this is. So the maintenance cost is going to be outragious.. In the end it shows a inferior frame and transmission. Why buy a toyota when you can buy a ford thats good for 100,000 with tune-ups unless you tow and then I beleive it 60,000 miles (spark plugs, tranny the norm but NO VALVE JOB). Remember just show them the owners manual you dont even have to go out on the lot.

  44. admin says:

    There’s a rumor circulating that the Tundra needs new spark plugs every 30k miles. While that is what the maintenance guide says, it’s only applicable to the V6 Tundra (you’ll note the maintenance guides specifies the 1GR-FE engine). The 4.7 and 5.7 plugs are good for 120k. As for the propeller shaft, the maintenance guide requires it to be re-torqued. That doesn’t mean it’s lose – that means it should be checked and torqued if necessary. When you check the torque setting, you find that the bolt hasn’t moved at all – it’s totally unnecessary, but Toyota lists it anyways. Why? Because that’s the kind of company they are. That’s why their quality and reliability is second to none. The assertion that the Toyota engine needs a valve job every 60k is incorrect. The maintenance guide calls for an “inspection” – in other words you just listen and if it sounds or feels off (or if the driver complains), then you might have to get in their. Talk to anyone who works on Toyota’s and they’ll tell you it’s an extremely rare occurrence on vehicles with less than 150k miles. If you’re wondering why Toyota lists these inspections as part of their regular maintenance even though they rarely act up, it’s just Toyota being extra careful. Top notch quality and reliability go hand in hand with zealous attention to detail.

  45. matt says:

    What about the chassis mount bolts. If these bolts do not loosen then why list it, because of their Top notch quailty and reliabilty or is the real reason the lability factor. It easy to say yhea the dont loosen and dont retorque them until there is a law suit for injury or to avoid a recall. Sounds like its a cop out. Why not use lock washers, cotter pins, self locking nuts, lockwire or locktite. This will assure that the bolts will not come loose. As for the valves so if you customer puts dual exhaust on their truck like many will how are you to HEAR the valves? Why not due a compression test on the cylinders? If the valves do require adjustment is it covered under warrenty? I have talked to acouple owners and they are talking about rust on the chrome parts ie. bumpers, lugnuts? Why is that. And the Top notch quailty and reliabilty have you read the forum under http://www.tundratalk.net for dealership and truck problems?? You may want to. This is full of Tundra owner who love their truck but have problems with them and the dealership. Heres what I think the 3 frames to make one (unibody) is flexing thats why they want the chassis bolts retorqued. As for the transmission who knows why they didnt use a safety device to secure the nut/bolt. As for the valve why as for unnessary maintenance if its not required. Just looking to make a dime off the unsuspecting customer or is their really somthing wrong. Im not will to take the chance. Im interested to hear this.

  46. admin says:

    Matt – Toyota lists a lot of parts that should be inspected-checked-tightened during typical maintenance, and most of them don’t need to be worried about. Don’t take my word for it – contact your local independent mechanic and ask them about chassis bolts, propeller shaft bolts, the need to check valve clearance on a late model Toyota, etc. They’ll tell you it’s a good idea to check, but it’s hardly necessary. Incidentally, you can listen to the engine by putting your head close to the valves (they’re just inside the valve covers, just under the engine cover) or get out your trusty stethoscope and listen. As for the chrome rust, not sure what that is buy you’re not the first to mention it. It’s actually the topic of our next post. If it’s a problem, we’ll be happy to acknowledge it.

  47. Virg says:

    There is no need (or way) to adjust the valves in a 5.7L Tundra engine. I don’t know where folks have gotten the idea that there is a need. The valve lash is hydraulic, and there is no way to make an adjustment on this system except at initial setup after an overhaul. Every owner manual service check list on all cars recommend countless checks that can be done by eye in a few seconds. One of the most aggregious checks in most manuals is the serpentine belt check. I don’t know how many times I’ve been told I needed a new belt because of minor cracks in the belt runners. These minor cracks develop within a few weeks of the belts life and cause no functional problem. If portions of the belt track is missing, then it’s time for replacement. But…usually these belts last for at least 100k.

  48. matt says:

    Dealerships make more money off their service dept. Shop rates range from to 49 to even 80 dollars a hour. Thats why they say you need to replace it. The valves portion from above is straight from the owners manual. I understand the mechanics behind it. I beleive its a ploy to get the unsuspecting that dont know any better to have the unneeded maintenance completed by all car manufactures. I trust no mechanic, rather do it my self. What it comes down to is if you like the vehicle buy it. Researching a vehicle is good but when one manufacture makes videos of trucks doing bumper pulls with the competators to sell a product what is that telling me?? See every manufacture has their own down falls, doing bumper pulls is childish. If you want to do real research that will be helpful produce numbers. For instance 10,800 lb trailer on 6% grade and use equal trucks accross the board. This is information people can use and respect. I dont see very many bumper pulls other than high school students in parking lots so that isnt going to help me. The Toyota isnt for me I like HD trucks due to the fact I can move a house if I ever feel the need araise and I can haul all the landscaping material I need at once. If I had numbers stating the facts maybe this would change. I feel they are safer. If paying more for fuel and maintenance is what I have to do to keep my family safe its well worth it (this goes for all trucks). If the Tundra is for you great but find a new marketing stratigy.

  49. Mickey says:

    Matt you’re simply over acting the issue. Like McDonalds coffee. Why do we need to have a cup state it’s hot. Common sense will tell you that. Toyota listed it down just like Mcd’s to cover there self because of to many people out there are sue happy. You know they had the recall on 4×4 propellor shafts. Now that you mention ford doesn’t have it but they never have told or it took an act of god to admit it about the cruise control. SInce you used Tundra talk on here I’m sure we had this dicussion on there too. Don’t you get a lube job for every oil change? They lube the universals so why not take a look or check. You also know they put wires, cotter pins on all nuts and bolts etc. on aircraft and Nascar but not your ordinary vehicle. SO you just can’t blame one manufacturer and not the other too. I don’t see this stuff on a Ford either. Personally we know you don’t own one so contact the manufacturer and pass that on. I don’t have an issue with it. If something were to happen then it was meant to be and it was written in the big book to happen to me. But I already did those pages with my Chevy and Ford. How about your marketing strategy by tow hooks? That only tells me your tow hooks are great when you break down or need to be pulled out. You’re just mad that Ford didn’t come out with anything good that was eye appealing. If you by all means feel the way you do stay with your Ford and go on your Ford site and complain about the Tundra you don’t have. I know you’re the one on Tundratalk I had this discussion with because of the same thing here was put there. You need to find something to do that’s a little bit more constructive with your life. There’s more to do than come on a Tundra site and write what you have.

  50. admin says:

    Matt – I hear what you’re saying about dealerships using the long list of scheduled maintenance items (many of which aren’t that big of a deal) to convince customers to pay more than they should. However, if you confront a dealer and request only the maintenance you need, you should get a good deal. Of course you can always do it yourself – more power to you if so. I always get my work performed at a dealership because I know they have the financial ability to pay for their mistakes. They’re also more closely regulated than independent repair shops (or god forbid Grease Monkey or similar). Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying the independent shops are bad – but it’s been my experience I don’t pay that much more at a dealer and I’ve always gotten reasonable service. As for your point about pointless marketing hype – I agree. Unfortunately, every manufacturer is guilty.

  51. Mickey says:

    Also Admin when you do all maintenance at the dealer they keep their records and when you have an issue just past the warranty they take your complete maintenance record into view knowingly you are a valuable customer and more than likely cover the bill under warranty because of your loyalty to go to the dealership for everything.

  52. admin says:

    Mickey – Great point. The dealerships I worked at would always go to bat for their good customers. We’d get stuff covered by Ford even if it was thousands of miles outside warranty. Great comment (as per normal).

  53. Alex says:

    toyota is the most reliable motor company. ford cant even make a car how can the make a truck. the tundra is bigger stronger faster and looks better.what would you buy a TOYOTA or a ford

  54. Justin says:

    Alex: I do agree, Toyota has one of the best reliabilities on the road today. But you also have to agree, their reliability isn’t what it used to be in comparison to the 70’s, 80’s and early-mid 90’s. As they’ve expanded and grown, this quality/reliability has slipped.

    You question Ford and about how they can’t make a car so how can they make a truck. Well some of the more recently released Ford cars have been rated better than their Toyota couterpart. Also Ford has been making trucks in the US a lot longer than Toyota. They’ve been the best selling truck brand here for over 30 years. Just because they haven’t always been great at producing cars doesn’t mean they don’t know how to make trucks. Come on now, don’t let your Toyota loyalty obscure the true facts of the situation.

    Now keep in mind we are comparing an F150 that debuted in 2003 as a 2004 model to a 2007 model Tundra. So the Tundra should have some advantages, being it is 4 years newer than the current F150. The Tundra is faster, don’t think anyone would disagree with you there. And sorry if I sounds repetative, but that doesn’t make one truck better than the other, no matter if it’s domestice or foreign. Bigger, exactly how? Stronger, exactly how? I think these are your opinions, but haven’t seen any factual basis saying one is stronger than the other. Sure the Tundra is bigger in some areas, but the F150 is also bigger in some areas. Looks are subjective. You like the Tundra looks better, great more power to you. Others think the Tundra looks awful. Who’s right or wrong? Neither, everyone has their own thoughts of the looks aspect of any vehicle. You have the ’09 F150 coming out this fall. The Tundra will still have a larger motor and most likely will still be faster, but we’ll have to wait and see. On the specs that have been released, the F150 still will have a larger payload volume, increased tow capacity (which is scary since no one should tow over 9K lbs in a 1/2 ton), larger interior volume, lighter but stronger frame and many new additions.

    If it was a car, I’d most likely buy Toyota, I’m not blind. If it was a full size truck, well I made that decision in 2007 and the Tundra wasn’t my choice.

  55. Ryan says:

    First of all, I have a lot of respect for Ford for keeping up with all their competition throughout the years. However, I do believe that the 07/08 Tundras are overall better than the current generation of F-150’s (04-08’s). Now when the new F-150’s roll out (assuming they do everything right), they can surpass Tundra’s current advantages. This is basically how I would rate the trucks:
    Engine: Tundra (way more power and same fuel economy as F-150)
    Transmission: Tundra (too many F-150’s have transmission problems)
    Suspension: F-150 (slightly better than the Tundra)
    Brakes: Tie (both stop pretty good)
    Interior: F-150 (no competition here)
    Exterior: Personal choice (I personally like F-150’s exterior more)
    Frame: F-150 (as other people pointed out)
    Payload/Towing: Tie (both are pretty good)
    Price: Initially F-150; but Tundra has better resale value
    Comfort: F-150 (much better with leather)
    Ride: Tundra (good overall)

    I’ve owned an F-150 before and it was decent for a truck…had a little bit more maintenance than I predicted. I now own a Tundra and pretty happy with it…I just wish they completely redesigned their interiors 🙁

  56. Nate says:

    I live in new england. I work at a major toyota dealer and can honestly tell you that the valves can be adjusted in the new 5.7 engine (bucket style lifters w/ shims). They do need adjustment from time to time, usually do to mil lights from a engine misfire. The older 2.4, 2.7 & 3.4 are vulnerable. If left undone the valve seat recesses in the head and burns the valve. The tundra is a fine truck built yard tough. I’m an ASE certified tech w/ about 12 years exp. Toyota is a master of marketing and advertising. If you really think the tundra is better than the F150 you’re an idiot. I personally drive a 07 F150 and it is hands down a better truck. Frame strength is of tremendous importance in a truck not a racecar like engine/trans. I personally like having a thicker skinned truck that can still get out of its way and not twist down a bumpy NE road. Try driving a toyota up here over a bumpy road and look at the bed shake in the sideview mirror, its shocking. Now don’t get me wrong the ford has bed shake, but not nearly as much as the tundra. I was always an import guy when it came to cars, but the truck market belongs to the USA.

  57. Mickey says:

    Nate it’s your choice. But to call tundra owners idiots is way off base. You just killed your point with that remark. Ford has there Kudo’s and just because you have one doesn’t make it a better truck. Even Consumer Reports stated that. So try again…

  58. Justin says:

    Nate: You sound a lot like me, in regards to the car market belonging to the imports, and the Full-Size trucks still belonging to the domestics. Sure the domestics are getting better with their cars, like the imports are getting better with their trucks. Just neither have matched the other just yet.
    *****
    I’ll admit, my ’06 150 has bed shake, right at the tailgate area, but very little to none at the cab/bed junction. The bed shake on the 150s is contributed to the excessively stiff frame and the out board mounted shocks. I can not say exactly what the Tundra bed shake/bounce is contributed too, other than the typical design/setup of a truck.
    *****
    Thanks for the quality post and your thoughts/experience Nate!

  59. Justin says:

    Mickey: Totally agree the “idiot” statement isn’t needed and doesn’t further anyones point or opinion.
    *****
    Even though we’ve had this debate before, I wouldn’t hold too much stock in C.R. magazines reviews. To me, and a lot of owners, they’ve lost a lot of credibility over the Camry/Tundra automatic recommendation. Sure they’ve back tracked and no longer recommend the 4×4 V8 Tundra, but the damage is done. Curious as to how C.R. doesn’t recommend the F150, but it’s listed in their “Best Used Vehicles” section. Sounds like a contradition to me.

    Source : http://www.consumerreports.org...../index.htm
    *****
    Funny thing C.R. knocks the F150 for it’s lack of Full-Time 4 wheel drive, but last I check, none of the other makes have this as an option, but they don’t knock any others for this. Now the F150 Harley edition offers AWD and so do other makes limited edition models, but it’s not common. They also knock the F150 for its lack of stability control and side curtain airbags. So we’ll wait to see what ratings C.R. gives the 09 F150 since it includes these items and what their excuse or knocks will be then.

  60. Nate says:

    Thanks Justin…

  61. Nate says:

    Sorry about the idiot comment, I will retract that statement Mickey.

  62. Mickey says:

    Nate It takes alot for a man like yourself owning another manufacturer vehicle and working for another. I didn’t take your comment personally so I’m not bothered by it. To me it takes away your honest opinion and your knowledge on the subject which you should know alot on the Tundra.

  63. Nate says:

    Well sir, I feel the tundra is a fine vehicle as I stated before, but toyota likes to compare cost of ownership to downplay the domestics. For example, I tried twice to purchase a trd 5.7 access cab tundra. The cost on this truck was nearly 40k. Now that said w/ an interest rate at 9.9% (toyota is picky who they finance to) the payments with 2k down would of been around $750 for 72 months! My ford was $33,819 knocked it down to about $29,500 with a 3.9 interest rate along with a 100k warranty and gap insurance, turning the payments into $489 a month w/ 2k down. Both trucks very comparable in features and options. There’s almost a 20k price tag difference Mickey. I don’t pretend to know it all, but I do know a little about how the auto industry works. Toyota has turned me completely off towards there product. I really hate the people who come in to my shop and whine about little crap with there cars, it really sucks sometimes, but thats what toyota has tried to market to consumers, that toyota is such a perfect product. They all break down, just depends on how well you pay attention to and maintain your vehicle and all will last a long time. This site is obviously biased towards the tundra, here’s a little back at ya. Some folks are so easily fooled. I choose to spend my hard earned money on a truck(F150) that is really American made and not claimed to be.

  64. Justin says:

    Nate: Two points I’d like to comment on regarding your last post.
    *****
    1) I hear you on many people thinking or assuming Toyota makes such a superior product than the domestics. Now during the 80’s & 90’s, I’d say Toyota was light years ahead on quality and longevity for the most part on cars. But today, the domestics have started to feel the impact of selling lower quality vehicles and have vastly improved their products. Toyota is still trying to live off and market this aspect, which it’s good for them, but at the same time bad for the consumer. Many people have turned away from the domestics, and rightfully so, but fail to even take a look at the domestics of today. Without sounding too repetitive, to each their own. Just wish more people would conduct thorough research before buying a product simply off it’s name and past rep. But this is where your ‘people are easily fooled’ comment is true in many respects, even when it comes to the domestics not just the imports. Most cars of today will last just as long as another as long as it’s properly maintained. Every make/model will have it’s lemon, so many times it’s a crap shoot.
    *****
    2) Now the Tundra, from everything reported so far, is one of the most American made vehicles you can buy. Toyota designed it in America for the typical American. It’s built in San Antonio, TX (which you probably already know), and they used to build them in Indiana until they started converting the plant over to build more economical vehicles. The F150 (#1, yeah!) is the most American made vehicle, #8 is the Silverado and #5 is the Tundra. The Dodge Ram isn’t even in the top 10, with less than 75% domestic parts content. Heck, even the Sienna is on the top 10 list at #6. Here’s a link for my source of this data.

    http://www.cars.com/go/advice/.....f=national

  65. Nate – Hallelujah! People have come to expect ridiculous levels of perfection in a system with 10,000+ parts. I always said to these people:
    “Imagine a scenario where you take your computer, your couch, your home theater system, your home’s furnace and air conditioner, strap it to a truck, and move it 2 miles while driving anywhere between 5 mph and 85 mph. How much stuff do you think you’d break in the move?”
    The answer is somewhere between the idiotic answer “nothing” and the wise response “ok – ok – I get it – just fix it already.”
    I can see why you bought an F150 btw – it made a lot more financial sense for sure, and it’s a solid truck too.

  66. Mickey says:

    Nate $20,000 difference with same options? Very hard to believe. Especially now with all the rebates and incentives.

  67. Kain Thornn says:

    I’ve driven Ford trucks, Chevy/ GMC trucks (I own a 99 Suburban) and Toyota trucks and had many friends who’ve had similar experiences. It boils down to what you want from a truck. My 01 Tacoma PreRunner TRD was an awesome off road vehicle (only got stuck once in deep mud), my Suburban is an awesome on road vehicle (currently experiencing some electrical issues), my 93 Sonoma SLT Long Bed V6 was also an awesome on road truck. I’ve driven a few Rangers as company vehicles and they were great! Every truck has pros and cons. If I was going to buy a full size truck it probably would be a Ford or Chevy, simply because they have good reputations by me and they cost less.

  68. Kain Thornn says:

    Also, for those who insist Fords and Chevies are so very American, does Toyota have plants in Mexico? Toyota brought their manufacturing to America while Ford and Chevy closed down US plants and took the jobs to Mexico. My 99 Suburban is Mexican made.

  69. Mickey says:

    Justin your Big 3 is asking for money/bailout. Not a good sign at all.

  70. Mickey says:

    Jesse how about bailing them out why you’re at it. It only took you two years to catch up. omg! You finally have a tranny. Now see if you can still float if the loan goes through.

  71. Justin says:

    Mickey: But Ford isn’t really asking for a loan at the current time. They are simply there to support GM & Chrysler. This helps protect both the domestic and import supply base from following either of those companies into bankruptcy. If either or both those companies collapse, it will take at least a couple suppliers with them, hurting basically all auto manufacturers. Only if either or both those companies collapse will Ford ask for the load, to help weather the storm of some suppliers falling into bankruptcy right behind GM/Chrysler. Here’s a good interview with Mulally about Fords purpose in the discussion of the loan.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,469204,00.html

    And here is the current news on the loan pkg.

    “Ford Motor is not seeking emergency loans but has asked the government to consider standby credits it could draw on if its own position worsens more than expected in 2009 or if Chrysler or GM were to fail.”

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/28312112
    ****
    And what about the untouchable Toyota? This is an interesting read.

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/re.....-year.html

  72. Kyle says:

    Jack, if you think that you can tow some 22,000 pounds with the Tundra, your going to blow the transmission out of the thing. The F250 is a 3/4 ton truck, the Tundra is a 1/2 ton. The 2010 F250 can to 24,000 lbs, thats a slight step up from a 1/2 ton.

  73. Otto says:

    ktexas04:

    “…and all the while doing it safer for the passengers. I should not buy a truck and have to floor it to get weight moving. SAFETY is a serious issue for ALL vehicles. Ford may be heavier, but what would you rather be driving in the event of an accident? When I

  74. Justin says:

    Otto: Why try to bring up the crash test results from the 97-03 F150 when comparing to an 07+ Tundra? We all know crumple zones and safety equipment has been increased significantly since that truck debuted in ’96 as a ’97 model. Check out the current IIHS ratings and the Tundra (07-10) and F150 (09-10) are on par with each other, with neither holding a true advatange.
    F150
    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ra.....spx?id=327
    Tundra
    http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ra.....spx?id=444
    ****
    Now check the NHTSA 5 Star ratings and you’ll notice they consider the Ford a slightly safer vehicle, giving the F150 mostly 5 stars to the Tundras mostly 4 stars.
    2009 F150
    http://www.safercar.gov/portal.....038;page=1

    2009 Tundra
    http://www.safercar.gov/portal.....038;page=1

  75. Otto – Justin is correct, but I’d like to point out that the 2010 Tundra gets 5 stars now rather than 4. This is somewhat odd, as there have been no changes made to the truck…at least that’s what I’ve been told.

  76. Justin says:

    Admin (Jason): Now that you remind me, I believe I did read somewhere that the ’10 Tundra now receives a 5 star rating. But like you, I’m curious as to how this occurs if nothing changed on the design. Who knows, but when safety is concerned, you really can’t go wrong with either of these trucks.

  77. Justin – Very true. It’s a huge improvement over just a few years ago – great news for all of us.

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