Author Archive for Jason Lancaster

Toyota Tundra Diesel Near Development

We’ve heard a lot of rumors about Toyota offering a diesel engine in the new Tundra, but we’ve just read of official acknowledgment that a Diesel Tundra is near development.

“In terms of (diesel) introduction into the U.S., the Tundra is the best (vehicle) to do that…The question is when is the best time to do that? That is determined by the customer…It’s something we’re looking at, but we have to see if we can price a diesel and still make it affordable.”

Those are the words of Toyota Executive Vice President Kazuo Okamoto, and the following is clear:

1. The Tundra will have the first Toyota diesel to debut in the US market.

Toyota has been making noise about developing diesels with Hino for use in the European and Asian markets. Considering Hino’s commercial success with large diesels in Asia, it’s reasonable to assume that Hino also has the expertise to assist Toyota in producing a diesel engine for the US market that can compete with Isuzu’s Duramax, the Cummins, and the Powerstroke. Okamoto’s words confirm Toyota would like to bring out a diesel Tundra, and their previous statements about bringing diesels to the US mean they’d like to develop a diesel Tundra soon.

2. Toyota has “put a pencil” to the Diesel Tundra

Clearly, Okamoto’s words indicate that Toyota has determined integrating a diesel into the Tundra would result in an expensive truck. However, his words also indicate that the ultimate cost has as much to do with consumer demand as anything else. That means that Toyota has determined the sales volume the Tundra needs to achieve in order to make the diesel’s development costs affordable. In other words, Toyota knows how many Tundra’s they need to sell in order to bring the Tundra Diesel online. The magic sales number, whatever it is, has got to be less than 400k units. That’s the most Toyota can produce out of San Antonio and Indiana combined.

3. Cost-cutting and a Diesel engine are both needed to fill-out the Tundra’s line-up

The current Tundra is too expensive — $3k to $4k more than competing vehicles. In response, Toyota has offered $3k worth of incentives in order to help reach their sales goal of 200k units. But if Toyota reduces the cost of their trucks in 2008 (and they will be reducing content, we’ve shown that) then their overall profitability and sales volume will increase because they will be more competitive. The question is by how much? If Tundra sales grow by 25% in 2008, would that be enough to justify diesel development? We think so. The Tundra diesel will need 2 or 3 years to develop. If Toyota commits to developing the engine at the end of next year, that means the diesel debuts in 2010 or 2011. At that time, based on a 25% sales growth next year and 10% each year after, Toyota will be selling 300k to 325k Tundras. They can bring out a diesel and have the capacity to sell 75k units. For most automakers, 75k units is more than enough to recover all the development costs of a niche model.

Toyota needs a Diesel Tundra if they’re going to compete with Ford, GM, and Dodge. We all know how many more buyers they would attract if they offered a diesel option.

This is exciting news for anyone who’s interested in a diesel Tundra — they should be coming out in 3 or 4 years.

Bed Bounce: Toyota’s Response To Our First Email

Earlier this week, we sent Toyota a request for information about the Tundra bed bounce issue. We described our understanding of the issue, our position as an advocate of the Tundra community, and then requested the following:

1. Have Toyota’s engineering and/or quality teams been informed of this issue?

2. Are there any tests currently in progress to diagnose this problem?

3. Has a fix for this problem been devised? If so, when will it be available?

4. What steps can current owners that are suffering from this problem take to make sure they’re given priority when a fix becomes available?

5. Is this issue being corrected on the 2008 model?

We had high hopes that Toyota would communicate with us about this issue, but instead they replied with something that basically amounts to a non-response stating:

“As of today, Toyota has not issued a Special Service Campaigns (SSC) or Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) for the concern you have described.”

Clearly, this response is intended not to fan the flames of discontent. While they didn’t acknowledge the bed bounce issue, they didn’t deny it either. After some careful thought, we’ve decided we need more data before we can effectively pursue this with Toyota. Our thinking here is simple — if we’re able to present Toyota with hard facts indicating the number of owners that have had this problem, the average severity of the problem, when and where it occurs, etc., we’ll have something that Toyota won’t be able to ignore. An additional benefit to gathering this data is that we’ll be able to share the results with current owners and prospective buyers. Hopefully, this will be a benefit to everyone.

We’re working on finding a good tool to gather this data, and we hope to have something ready by the end of the weekend. In the interim, if you have any suggestions about the data we should gather and/or comments on Toyota’s response, please leave a comment.

Where do Tundras Come From?

Ever wonder where all the parts that make up the new Toyota Tundra come from? Here’s a link to a U.S. map with some of the parts suppliers and their respective locations:

Toyota Tundra Supplier Location Map

It isn’t a complete list — Toyota doesn’t publish this information, so you have to find out the old fashioned way. If you find any errors, or if you work for a supplier that makes parts for the new Tundra, contact us with your company’s name, address, and the part(s) made, and we’ll add it to the map.

Bed Bounce: The Clock Is Ticking

Based on the response from the last two posts, we’ve come to the realization that the Tundra has an issue with bed bounce. While it’s still unclear exactly how many people are affected, considering the demonstrated severity of this issue we feel it is important to discuss.

Without going into details (at this time), we’ve contacted Toyota and requested an official response to the bed bounce issue. We’re not exactly sure when Toyota will respond, but we hope it is very soon. As one of the only websites on the internet focused on the new Tundra, we feel it is our responsibility to pursue this issue on behalf of the community.

Our goal is to start a conversation with Toyota that will ultimately lead to a resolution of this problem. We’ll keep you updated and share any information we receive from Toyota.

Toyota Tundra Bed Bounce Issue: Our Position

One of our readers recently requested we spend some time talking about the “bed bounce” issue and what it means to owners or anyone considering purchasing a new Tundra.

First, for anyone who doesn’t know about the bed bounce issue, take a look at our post about All Known 2007 Tundra Problems.

To understand what’s going on with the Tundra’s bed, you need to know a little bit of physics (not much, but a little). Basically, all objects have an inherent natural frequency of vibration. When an object is subjected to an outside force whose frequency matches the object’s natural frequency, dramatic vibrations can occur. Perhaps the best explanation of natural frequency and mechanical resonance is a child swinging on a swingset. Even if you only push the child slightly, if you push them at the right time, they will go much higher. That’s because you’re matching the natural frequency of the swing.

Another great example of mechanical resonance is the collapse of the old Tacoma Narrows bridge in 1940.

Amazingly, the length, width, and thickness of the bridge created a natural frequency that corresponded exactly with winds of about 40mph. One windy day, the bridge fell down. Mechanical resonance in action.

But what does this have to do with the new Tundra?

Based on posts we’ve read on TundraSolutions, the situation seems to be most evident when driving on concrete highways between 55-65 mph. Evidently running over concrete expansion joints at those speeds matches the mechanical resonance of the Tundra and causes a nasty vibration. Additionally, we’ve see the Ford generated video of the Tundra’s bed vibration. Clearly, the Tundra has an issue here.

Here’s what we think:

1. The Ford produced bed bounce video is worthless. In the video, you’ll see that the Tundra has dramatic bed vibration. You’ll also see that the entry speed was 28mph. Why 28? Our guess is that 28mph was the speed that the Ford performed best at. Had the test been conducted at even 30mph, the results could have been dramatically different. Mechanical resonance is tricky — even small changes in speed can dramatically effect the results. Besides, is anyone really going to drive on that surface that fast? What real-world situation would require you to drive almost 30mph on a surface that unforgiving? Because the situation in the Ford video is so unique, we really don’t think you should put much stock in it.

2. The Tundra’s bed bounce on concrete highways is a big deal for some. Toyota screwed up here — the new truck shouldn’t have this problem. While nearly all trucks exhibit some form of bed bounce on concrete highways, the Tundra’s bed bounce is outside the norm. We think it may have something to do with Toyota’s decision to angle the rear leaf springs rather than orient them straight front to back, but that’s nothing more than a guess. But of all the items on the new truck, this unconventional suspension arrangement seems to be the most radical (and therefore the most suspicious, at least to us). However, based on the volume of complaints we’ve seen on forums, etc., we’re willing to bet most Tundra owners haven’t experienced this problem.

3. The bed bounce problem isn’t necessarily an indicator of frame strength. While one possible explanation for the Tundra’s bed bounce issue is that the frame isn’t strong enough, it seems unlikely. If the frame were really so weak that it would allow the bed to bounce out of control, a few trucks probably would have fallen apart by now. We’re 99% certain that the issue is suspension related, specifically that the suspension doesn’t dampen the natural mechanical resonance of the truck. If bed bounce really was a result of poor frame strength, why does the it only happen at certain speeds? The answer — it’s not about frame strength.

4. There are things you can do to mitigate the bounce. Some owners have reported that adding a few hundred pounds of cargo to the bed has reduced bed bounce. Others have added a new leaf spring, or an air suspension system. Perhaps the easiest fix is to avoid speeds that cause bed bounce — when traveling on concrete highways with big expansion joints, anything outside of the 55-65mph range will result in little or no bounce.

5. Toyota should fix this soon. When we first heard about this problem, we didn’t believe it. However, over the last few months its become clear that something is wrong. Just like it took us a while to acknowledge, Toyota will need time as well. However, once it becomes clear to them, we can’t imagine they won’t fix it, especially considering the fix would be rather simple. Changing the rear leaf springs, while expensive, would undoubtedly cure the problem. In fact, the fix COULD be as easy as adding a new brace or redistributing some suspension weight. It’s important to remember that minor changes to the suspension can result in a radically different natural frequency, and therefore no bed bounce (or very little).

6. Should this affect your decision to buy a new Tundra? Like all things, it depends. We tested the Tundra here in Denver a few months ago, and noticed no bed bounce. We drove it all over town, on highways, etc., with no problems to report. However, there aren’t a lot of concrete highways around here. Our advice to anyone considering buying the truck is to take the time and test-drive the vehicle on your normal commute route. Based on the number of complaints we’ve seen online, and the relative lack of publicity, this problem likely affects less than 5% of Tundra owners. 95% of the people considering purchasing the new Tundra shouldn’t be effected, and therefore shouldn’t be too concerned.

For those that have to deal with this problem daily, we hope Toyota finds a solution quickly.

So there you have it. Our opinion of the Toyota Tundra pickup bed bounce issue and how it should impact your decision to buy a new Tundra. Any comments?

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