2010 Toyota Tundra VVTi Gear Assembly TSB Explained

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We recently received a copy of a Toyota TSB (technical service bulletin) regarding the mysterious 2010 Tundra check engine light issue we documented a few months ago. What follows is an explanation of the exact problem, how it’s fixed, and what Tundra owners can expect. We’ve also included a VIN list that you can use to see if your Tundra is effected by this TSB.

The Issue:

Beginning a few months ago, many 2010 Tundra owners complained about check engine lights coming on in their brand-new trucks (setting code P0012 or P0022). Based on notes from owners and brief conversations with dealership personnel, we wrongly concluded this issue was caused by oil debris clogging cam position sensors. However, the problem is that Toyota used the wrong spring in the VVT-i gear assembly in some 2010 Tundras (both 4.6L and 5.7L). Because the spring in some Tundras is too stiff, the VVT-i system will “stick” in the wrong mode, setting a check engine light.

When this problem was first discovered on some trucks, Toyota advised dealers that it was an oil contamination issue and that an oil change would fix the problem. However, this is not the case. While changing the oil temporarily solved the issue, at some point these Tundras will need a new VVT-i gear assembly.

2010 Toyota Tundra VVT-i gear assembly TSB

Some new 2010 Tundras with check-engine lights and codes P0012 or P0022 most likely need a new VVT-i gear.

The Fix:

Tundra’s produced before a certain date need a new VVT-i gear assembly with the correct spring so that the VVT-i system will function correctly. Replacing the assembly is a repair of low difficulty but does require a moderate amount of time. The timing cover, valve covers, and intake manifold must be removed in order to access the cam gears. According to a Toyota technician we spoke with, this is a labor-intensive yet relatively simple task.

Owners should expect to be without their truck for a couple of days, and should be provided a rental vehicle at no charge while the repair is made. This isn’t an item that requires immediate attention either, so feel free to schedule it around your life (this is not an urgent matter).

Effected Trucks

First, this TSB effects 2010 Tundra and Sequoia models ONLY. In order to determine if your truck is effected, you need the last 8 digits of your VIN number. If the last 8 digits of your VIN number are LOWER than the numbers for your vehicle configuration as listed below, you are advised to schedule an appointment.

4.6L 2010 Tundras

  • 2wd 4.6L Regular Cab Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX001114
  • 2wd 4.6L DoubleCab and CrewMax Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX011968
  • 2wd 4.6L DoubleCab Long Bed Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX001123
  • 4wd 4.6L Regular Cab Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX001239
  • 4wd 4.6L DoubleCab and CrewMax Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX008508
  • 4wd 4.6L DoubleCab Long Bed Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX001181

5.7L 2010 Tundras (non flex-fuel)

  • 2wd 5.7L Regular Cab Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX003300
  • 2wd 5.7L DoubleCab and CrewMax Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX087077
  • 2wd 5.7L DoubleCab Long Bed Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX006744
  • 4wd 5.7L Regular Cab Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX004038
  • 4wd 5.7L DoubleCab and CrewMax Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX125564
  • 4wd 5.7L DoubleCab Long Bed Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX010329

5.7L 2010 Tundras (flex-fuel only)

  • 4wd 5.7L Regular Cab Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX004040
  • 4wd 5.7L DoubleCab and CrewMax Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX125616
  • 4wd 5.7L DoubleCab Long Bed Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX010329

This list is sort of confusing, so be sure to double check your VIN. Also be sure to note the cab type and 2wd/4wd.

This isn’t a problem that requires an immediate fix. Feel free to schedule this repair along with your next service.

Technical Explanation of the Problem

All new Toyota Tundras feature VVT-i – variable intake valve timing. VVT-i is one of the marvels of modern engine design, and systems of this type have been successfully used by every auto manufacturer to extract maximum power and efficiency out of their engines for decades.

The Tundra’s VVT-i system relies upon a cam shift to change valve timing. By shifting the cam back and forth, valve timing can be advanced or retarded in order to maximize performance and efficiency. The cam shift mechanism is activated by a combination of oil pressure, electronic valves, and gear assemblies that are set on springs. Here’s a step-by-step explanation of VVT-i in action:

  1. As RPMs increase, oil pressure raises.
  2. If the engine computer determines that a timing shift is beneficial, it will open the oil control valves and allow oil to apply pressure to the VVT-i gear assembly.
  3. The oil pressure on the gears will cause the cam to shift forwards or backwards, moving from one mode to another.

Here’s a video that kind-of-sort-of explains the cam shift. If anyone has a better clip, please share it in the comments.

YouTube Preview Image

When this problem first began to occur, the engine computer reported that the oil control valves were malfunctioning (check code P0012 and/or P0022, corresponding to left or right side oil control valve). For some reason or another, it was assumed that oil contamination was causing a false-positive error, so the recommendation was to simply change out the contaminated oil. Because the system is driven by oil pressure, a fresh batch of oil was sufficient to fix the problem (albeit temporarily). As time went by, however, many trucks with oil changes returned once again with the same problem. Further investigation revealed that the cam gears weren’t activating correctly because the spring behind them was a little too stiff. So, replacing the spring is the fix.

As you can see, this repair has absolutely no impact on the heart of engine. Advancing or retarding the cam timing will not cause a situation where valves can be damaged, etc., so a malfunctioning VVT-i gear can not hurt the engine.

Please share your comments or questions below.

Filed Under: Maintenance TipsTundra News

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  1. Mickey says:

    Very good Jason. It will help explain alot to the customers who feel they have been left out of the loop.

  2. Jason says:

    Mickey – Thanks! This thing took some time to put together, and I couldn’t have done it without all the help from 2010 Tundra owners, so my thanks to them.

  3. Jim Jackson says:

    Great Jason, many thanks!! My truck was built in Dec of ’09 and from the above list they made over 400 more like 4x dblcab before putting in the fix.

    I’m really OK with this now that Toyota has identified the problem and the fix. It is a minor inconvenience to get it into the dealer and if they provide something else to drive it is really so much easier.

    From tonights news it appears that Toyota has some bigger problems with gas pedals. They are shutting down production which was presented as a big negative by CBS. As a former Quality Manager shutting down production while you put corrective action in place is exactly what you need to do. Many lesser companies would likely continue production because it is so costly to stop.

    Thanks again for all your hard work

  4. Jason says:

    Jim – You bet – thank you. I hope that Toyota’s decision to stop selling 57% of their line-up (by sales volume) is enough to show consumers Toyota is committed to safety and quality. If it doesn’t have that effect, it will be an expensive mistake.

  5. Rick Ruzanski says:

    i just brought my truck in for this today as the engine light came on at about 150 miles. They told me over the phone to come in and that a simple change of the oil would do the trick. They told me i would need to be there about 1.5 hrs as i had a couple of minor scratches buffed out that were on the truck at time of delivery. No big deal. after at least 1.5 hrs were up and i had not heard anything, i went to go ask how things were going and was informed of the TSB and that my computer stored the P0012 code, or a retard on timing issue caused by the wrong springs installed during motor assembly at the factory. Needless to say, i was a bit surprised. so we did a little research and found this blog. This is an unfortunate thing. It is a simple problem in terms of what it is, but what is so hard to understand is that my engine needs the equivalent of open heart surgery to remedy the situation (put in a stent) and i haven’t even driven the truck for a week….not even 250 miles. My ford F-150 of which i’ve had since 2001 with 130,000 miles on it has never had a repair requiring removing major components off of the engine block, though i’m sure its days of driving without the dreadful big repair bill surprise cant be too far off in the distance which i part of the reason i decided on a new truck and carefully decided on a Toyota rather than another Ford. Hopefully its just a glitch and once its fixed, i never have another issue like this. I will just have to keep an eye on the seals after the work is performed try to not make it into a bigger issue that it really is. Good thing is i have roughtly 59,750 miles of powertrain warranty left….. and for the record, the power and the level of heavy duty the whole package is on this truck, i would say this truck would probably do circles around a ford. hope i am right. and, yes, i really appreciate the explanation complete with a You-Tube video to help me understand what the issue is. Thanks, Rick

  6. John Francoeur says:

    I had the same problem with my new Tundra when it hit about 400 miles.
    Being without my truck for a couple of days is not a good option, but I suppose if they can get me another one to use I can live with it.
    They said to wait for the TSB, and now that it is out I will be calling them tommorrow to get it fixed. Great job as always on the updates Jason!

  7. mk says:

    This sucks since my 2010 tundra is affected by this TSB according to my VIN#. I will not be taking it in unless I get the code on the dash anytime soon since I there is a good chance, with my luck with dealer service, that they will screw something else up in the process. Case in point, I had a 2007 RAV4 V6 under warranty with 24K on it leak antifreeze thru the waterpump. Dealer took darn near 5-6 hours tearing the entire engine apart basically to replace waterpump under warranty and less than 1 week later, antifreeze reserve tank was empty darn near and the main engine gasket seal was leaking oil out of it. Coincidence, I doubt it. Toyota techs repair one issue and create 1-2 other problems taking everything off and trying to put it back together as sloppily as they can since most do not care how they put it back together as long as it is back together as quickly as they can in the time allowed for their repair according to what the book says it should take and techs get paid as such. I also had a TSB on a faulty torque setting holding the steering knuckle in place behind the steering wheel on a warrantied new Dodge minivan a few years ago. Dealer did TSB under warranty to tighten bolt behind steering wheel and a few days later, my wife backing out of the parking lot at work (luckily she was not killed while driving vehicle) had the entire steering wheel come off in her hands. It shows total lack of care and common sense that these technicians lack considerably nowadays. I even had a tech ride with me on a noise heard on the tundra and he blew me off saying do not have time to fix it, sorry, even though I had an appt. to get it fixed and they worked on the repair to no good since noise still present and they expected me to come back another day instead of giving me a loaner car to drive until the warrantied tundra was fixed properly the first time. I dislike repairs like this as you can tell A LOT!

  8. John Francoeur says:

    I am a little worried too about them ripping apart a brand new motor and then expecting everything will be put back together as new. It is only new once and after it has been disassembled it is no longer new in my opinion.

  9. mk says:

    John Francoeur: Sorry to rant and rave, but you couldn’t have said it better.

  10. Rick says:

    for the past couple of hours i have read ALL the dialog on this, including the last blog that was closed. some serious stuff and a lot of funny things too.Too much to remember it all, but very much educated in being careful with my moves as we go forward. Yep, it makes me ill to think that after 250 miles i will have a repair done in which i was told, the valve covers will be removed, the timing or cam shaft cover will be removed and the biggest of them all, the engine intake manifold will also have to be removed to replace the faulty springs with the proper springs, not to mention the tons of crap i’d have to assume that has to be moved all over the top and front of the engine to get access to the main areas and then put it all back together without any problems in the future. Im a general Contractor and i see in my line of work the day to day crap that goes on. It is unbeleivable….Even the best, most meticulous job is one that when you finish, the person responsible for it, usually says to themselves, i would have done it that way, or this way, or, it looks great, but what took ya so long….Its just the way it works. as long as Toyota treats this with a very high level of importance and backs the major repair with an extended warrantee on the engine lubricated parts and the seals replaced in facilitating the repair, in writing (preferably for the ownership of the vehicle), and perhaps throws in some perks (oil changes, car washes, or discounts on some bells and whistle items) as a good-faith gesture for the inconveniance and to let you know they are truely sincere about your retaining your customer satisfaction and trust in their product, what else can you do. and if, this new TSB ends up not solving the problem, then i guess i have to demand that i want a replacement truck with a vin approximatly 42 numbers higher than mine!! Yikes!! Btw, my engine is the 5.7 and last, the thing i want to say i am noticing is when i let off the gas, i am not really feeling a true coast, but rather a geared slowdown, possibly feeling slight downshifts around 30 miles per hour. Anyone have any response to that? My assumption of this is the lifeboat theory raised by someone where the computer is telling the engine to play it safe.

  11. John Francoeur says:

    Here is my solution to the problem. Fix the problem in the new trucks not released from the factory yet, send one to to my dealer and maybe maybe throw in an extra option or two to compensate for the hassle and give it to me, then tear apart my new trucks motor, replace the problem parts, and sell it as a used truck with a rebuilt engine. Because in essence, that is what it will be. Once they tear the engine apart it is no longer new. I don

  12. Jill says:

    Just read with great interest the TSB info. on the check engine light problem. Well, just checked our VIN# and ours does not fall under the list of effected vehicles. Will Toyota do the same fix for our vehicle since it has already had the problem (P0022 and changed oil twice with no further problems), even though it’s not on the list?

  13. Rick says:

    John, your right, my brand new truck would have a rebuilt engine at 500 miles or less. after getting only about 3 hrs sleep due to this, i can’t say i feel any better about all of this. Jill, maybe it will effect more Vin #’s is your truck brand new? these problems seem to start shortly out of the gate. that could be good new in that it reinforces the case of those in this situation and obviously bad news if it means Toyota doesnt have it completely narrowed down to a specific batch of trucks.

  14. Scott says:

    Im now affected by two recalls and still havent been contacted by Toyota. As Rick mentioned, I got no sleep worrying over this last night, esp. since I have a baby on the way and now find out Toyota has no clue as to why the accelerater sticks (I spoke to the delaership directly and they told me the exact reason for the pedal recall is bc they cannot duplicate the problem, therefor your taking a risk everytime you drive your car, albeit an extremly small risk, but it still exists).
    “i am noticing is when i let off the gas, i am not really feeling a true coast, but rather a geared slowdown, possibly feeling slight downshifts around 30 miles per hour. Anyone have any response to that? ”
    In response- yes I am too and I have the 4.6. I mentioned this on another story. Mine also seems to have issues shifting around 1000-1500 rpms, almost like its downshifting again to upshift.
    I am so F-ing pissed right now. I think Im hurting my keyboard, better stop typing

  15. John Francoeur says:

    I just checked my VIN and it is not the one listed yet I had the P0012 error code/check engine light problem. So now what? Is Toyota acknowledge my problem even though my VIN is not the one listed? I think they are just throwing numbers out there and really dont know what VIN numbers are prone to this problem.

  16. John Francoeur says:

    I digress, my truck does fall into this “lower than” VIN number.

  17. South Carolina says:

    Scott, AKA Gator Man

    I also have the same issue with the downshifting. Mentioned here last month. I just had my oil chaged @ 4000 miles and was told that this was normal. I dont think so. No mention whatsoever from my service tech about the TSB. 2 Months of ownership, two recalls, one bad feeling.

  18. Mickey says:

    South Carolina the downshifting in the tranny is normal as you described before. Especially when you are on a decline. As for those P0012 codes you have something there.

  19. Jill says:

    Rick-Yes, we have a 2010 Tundra Rock Warrior. We’ve had no problems with the truck since the two oil changes fixed our P0022 problem, so not sure if I should worry about not being on the list of VIN #’s or not.

    On a side note–my husband had a 1995 Ford F150, bought new, that had the dreaded flaming cruise control problem. If I remember correctly, it took years for Ford to finally come forward with the problem. We had always had issues with the cruise control shutting off for no reason, but felt it wasn’t worth a trip to the dealership….little did we know we could have burst into flames at any moment (can laugh about it now). So, if there is a bright side to all of this, Toyota understands there are problems and appears to want to remedy the situation. Hopefully, sooner rather than later!

  20. Rick says:

    well, another work day in the books… a couple of things. i looked at the concern i had with when i let off the gas. this is a bit more precise. at 50 miles an hour, i let off the gas and the truck coats freely without any drag or what i am now going to call engine braking, becuase i think it is the engine thta is noticiably slowing down the truck at the same test at 40 mph and let off the gas. best way to describe is the engine is helping the truck to slow down. you do feel downshifts from the gearing in the 30- to 40 mph range. i am not saying i have a lemon, just trying to understand if it truely is a normal conditon or not. i do beleive it has to effect fuel economy a little. i got abot 305 miles on the first tank of dealer gas and the truck say i can go about 25 more miles. i have babied the accelerator almost always. that said, due to how cold its been, there has been two times i warmed up the engine for a little longer than i prob should have. I am anxious in the new truck to feel confident that i at least can average somewhere around 15 mpg. right now its either at 11.9 or 12.9 i cant recall.

    on the ford F-150, still trying to sell it, but feel extremly bad right now becuase i have the a recall notice from 2005 in hand on this and ive never done a thing about it. as i look back, bot am i stupid. im tryinh to get as close to 9k as i can, but if the thing burst into flame tomorrow, the insureance co would cut me a check for prob half that and say, have a nice day, then increase my rate. i guess i should go get that taken care of!!! or if the new owner goes up in a ball of flames, i’m really in trouble.

    back to the heart of the matter. check engine light came on at 305 miles/ before i even pulled out of the driveway and stayed on. im a very understanding person, but one last thing i have to state is that i do and have been getting a whiff of engine coolant on a very once in a while basis. is it the typical engine break-in period, or is this a problem?? i just have no clue at this point what to do, but am going to a formal sit down with someone at the dealer to begin looking into what options i have at this point. ty youkon is sitll there….
    let you know what happens.

  21. TXTee says:

    Thanks for this article. Although I don’t have a 2010 it’s good to know that the real problem has been found and can be taken care of. The oil change fluke just seemed strange to many owners and now this is more factual and acceptable.

  22. mk says:

    Rick, you are not alone on the truck feeling like it is downshifting when slowing down from 50 mph to in the 20’s letting off the accelerator pedal letting the truck coast. My 2010 tundra is doing the same thing as your truck and mine is a 5.7L V8 with only 7K on it. I find it puzzling since my 2007 tundra same exact truck before my 2010 tundra did NOT do this at all. What is up with this – another TSB if you ask me and I am not kidding on this at all! The 2010 tundra’s are slowing down with engine braking coasting on a pretty much level surface by just letting off the accelerator pedal without applying the brake at all unlike my 2007 tundra much slower rate of deceleration. What is up with that?????????????????????????????????????

  23. Rick says:

    i was always driving on level pavement when i began to notice this. then today actually looked at how fast i was going while it ws happening. it does not in my case raise the rpm’s. the rpm gauge just gradually goes lower consistantly. i’m going to mention it to them when i go there tomorrow. i already spoke with the dealers customer relations manager (it says thats what your supposed to do if you are not satisfied right on p.2 of the Owners warrantee rights notification booklet which is with the manual for the vehicle) and he listened to my concerns, unfortunately with all the issues Toyota has had in the past week, i was told this is an issue to be discussed with the general manager and that meeting will happen tomorrow.

  24. Jason says:

    Rick – The coasting sounds like normal operations to me as well – keep in mind the truck is designed to tow. Using the engine to brake the transmission is a good way to keep a heavy load under control. Good luck in the meeting.

    John – Thank you very much…and thanks for the comments. Sorry if I jumped on you in the other post. I really do understand your feelings, and I agree that Toyota should increase the powertrain warranty on the effected models.

    Jill – Are you sure your VIN isn’t lower than the number listed for your model? Toyota found and fixed this problem in production a few weeks ago. They’re just now getting the fix done on consumer vehicles. You were one of the first people to report this thing, so I think you want to double-check.

    Scott – I doubt you’ll ever get a recall notice in the mail before you hear about a recall in the news. These things take weeks to process.

    TXTee – Always.

    mk – Deep breaths bro! 🙂 This truck is a beast and you know it man!

  25. Scott says:

    Wanted to get your feedback on this. I called the dealership regarding the VVTi issue, nobody said they heard of it. I was told to call the 800 number for Toyota. Great customer service. Was on hold for 30 mins, never got through, so Im really pissed at this point. I call the dealership back, tell them to get in contact with Toyota as THAT IS THEIR JOB, NOT MINE to know this stuff. He said he would find out and call me back. He calls me back and does agree that my truck have this issue. He then asked me if my Check Engine light has come on? I said no. He said then dont worry about it till that happens. I was like WTF!! So you want me to break it, then you will fix it. He didnt answer that question. What have others been told by their dealers? What should I do?

  26. Jill says:

    Jason-Double-checked the VIN#, and yes, it looks like we ARE in the target group. Think we’ll wait until the gas pedal situation blows over to approach our local dealership about this.

  27. Jason says:

    Scott – First, just for your reference, there’s no “breakage” involved. The worst-case scenario is that your truck “sticks” in one cam mode for a few miles. There’s not one iota of a chance of damage, so please don’t feel like you need to have this TSB done right away. As the article says, this isn’t a critical repair. It’s something you can schedule during your next oil change.

    Second, in response to the dealership’s ignorance, I hear ya. This is all too common in the auto industry – manufacturers rarely communicate problems to dealers, and when they do many dealer personnel are too busy or too stupid to care. To be fair, having worked at a dealership for years, it’s really difficult to stay on top of every single issue. Still, when a customer calls asking about a TSB, the response should NEVER be “Call the 800 number.” The response should have been “I don’t know about this, but I’ll find out and call you back.” That’s just bad customer service. Ditto for the “don’t worry about it till it happens comment.” They should have explained the issue to you so that you understood it’s not a critical repair. Then they should have set an appointment.

    My suggestion for your next move is to either a) call back and ask for the GM because you have a customer service problem or b) find a new dealership.

  28. Jason says:

    Jill – Smart idea! 🙂 The dealers I’ve talked to over the past few days are getting crushed by 100’s of telephone calls. You are wise to give them some time to get back to normal.

  29. Scott says:

    Thanks Jason, you da’ man

  30. Jill says:

    Correction on my 1/27 post….we only had our oil changed once after the P0022 code appeared. The second time it appeared they reset it and to date, it hasn’t returned. Sorry for the mistake:)

  31. Rick says:

    spoke with the general manager over the phone, told him my concerns and what i felt were three scenario’s of how this could go. new truck not effected by VVTI issue, reverse the deal and everyone walk away, or if i keep this truck, the only way i am going to be completely satisified with toyota is to extend the powertrain warrantee to 100,000 miles / additional time beyond 5 yrs. and have Toyota pick up the expense for all routine scheduled maintenance to i would say 60k miles. he said he would not be able to authorize that and to call the 800 #, i did, they couldnt even take my call and the automated chick said to call back later due to the high volumn of calls, so i called the GM back and he said try later. i said i try a couple times if i can but am busy. he then called me an hour later,said he spoke to them and offered me at no cost the powertrain warrantee be extended to 6 yrs. 100k and for a price of over $700 i could have the Platinum service aggreement which is more insurance. i think he misunderstood me because that is not the same thing as the routine scheduled maintenance that the book for the truck i’m sure outlines at milage milestones, that is what i want so i will have to clarify this. i’d like to see if they can bump me up to 7 yrs. 100k on the powertrain but i doubt it because the only one i see in print that is extended is 6yr /100k they want no part of the other scenario’s i indicated. he reassured me that the repair would go great and that there is a benefit by having this done in their shop, that benefit was that it is a highly trained automotive technitian who i would actually get to meet!!! and ask questions etc. which is better than how it is done in assembly. Hopefully he is right. We’ll see.

  32. TXTee says:

    Rick – I don’t understand why you think any dealership would be willing to pay for your regularly scheduled maintenances for the next 60K miles. I’m a consumer and wouldn’t even think of that being a reasonable request. I understand frustration but that’s a no-go. You signed that sales agreement and even under a Lemon Law you wouldn’t get additional compensation…only a “whole” vehicle.

  33. Wayne says:

    Had my oil & filter changed at 500 miles for the P0022 code and now have 4800 miles without problems on my 2010 4WD 4.6L DoubleCab (although I too have noticed the downshifting when letting off the gas and coasting down a hill). Checked my VIN # and I’m included in this TSB. Talked to the service manager last night while visiting the dealership for a “new owner clinic” about the TSB and he said to simply call in prior to my next oil change (at 5500 miles) to be sure they order in all the necessary parts and they’ll take care of it. Not looking forward to giving up the truck for a couple days but I’d rather get it taken care of now when I can schedule around it and while the dealer is being helpful. Thanks Jason (and other Tundra owners) for all the info . . .

  34. Jason says:

    Rick – A free 6yr/100k powertrain is very fair. That warranty is better than any warranty you’ll find on a competing new truck (GM only goes 5yrs/100k). I realize you would like a little more, but I think you’ve done very well. Good work.

  35. mk says:

    Jason, I think the odds are 50/50 that the dealer will screw up the engine/seals/etc. by taking the valve cover off and other parts and not reinstalling everything the way it was before replacing the spring, especially with the luck I have had with dealerships screwing up my other vehicles almost to the point of death. What is your take on this if it was you who needed a new spring? Would you get it done or wait until the dealership did about 100 tundras so they knew what they were doing? Also, could this spring sticking and not moving the cams in the VVTi system actually cause what a few of us are describing in ONLY the 2010 tundras vs. other 2007 on up tundras (non 2010 models) that I have driven which is excessive deceleration like engine braking on a fairly level surface just by letting off the gas pedal and nothing else but coasting from 50 to 20 mph or so? Trust me, my 2010 tundra slows way down as compared to my former 2007 tundra while coasting on a level surface and it is the same exact truck. Any thoughts on this Jason or others?

  36. Jason says:

    mk – I respectfully and completely disagree about the odds of this repair getting screwed up. Your personal luck aside (which I obviously can’t speak to), it’s damn near impossible to screw up this repair. I’ve been told by two different master techs that any basic Toyota certified tech can handle this fix. Unless your local dealership is ran by a bunch of monkeys (possible I suppose), you have nothing to worry about.

    I’ve also been told that, on the off chance the repair is done incorrectly (the seals weren’t proper, parts were forgotten, etc.), you would know on the way home from the dealership. There’s almost zero chance of something going wrong 100k miles from now – if it’s going to happen, it’s going to happen immediately.

    None the less, Toyota should offer an extension of the powertrain warranty to alleviate your reasonable concerns.

    As for the idea of not being the first to have this repair, I think it’s probably a wash. The first few trucks will take longer to fix, but they’re often completed by a more experienced tech. Once the more experienced guy has done a couple of repairs, he can watch over the less experienced techs who do the bulk of the work at many dealers. In any case, I wouldn’t imagine that your local dealership will do more than a dozen repairs. A limited number of 2010’s with this issue divided by 1200 dealers nationwide = not very many trucks per dealer (but that’s just a quick, back of the envelope calc.).

    I think the coasting could be a result of one the cams stuck in a position, but it’s more likely to be part of Toyota’s updated transmission program. Engine braking makes a lot of sense for tow vehicles, and I wouldn’t be surprised if this is an enhancement. Still, the fact that you’ve owned both trucks and noticed a difference is noteworthy. I’ll keep my eyes and ears open.

  37. John Francoeur says:

    Is there any chance that over a period of time these “stiff” springs would just loosen up a little after a few k miles? I really don’t want to have the engine disassembled and I was wondering if they might break-in after a while?

  38. DJ says:

    Great information and I thank everyone for their inputs. My 2010 5.7L Crewmax has been at the dealer since Jan 26th (with 400 miles on it) and is not scheduled to be completed until Feb 3rd due to issues getting some parts (gaskets) – hopefully it will get done by then and be the end of this. I just sent a letter to the dealer that I bought the track and am working the extended warranty angle – I think that would be a fair remedy. Any suggestions as to next steps / options if they come back with a “no” to the extended warranty? Appreciate any inputs. Thanks

  39. John Francoeur says:

    I sat on the phone for 2.5 hours on hold with Toyota corporate only to find out that they can’t do anything but open a case file of the complaint. They said that any extension of the drivetrain warranty would have to be done by the dealer. I have been waiting for several hours and I have not heard anything back yet. But I did emphasize that I think that the least that Toyota could do is to extend the drivetrain warranty. I don’t care if it is 5yrs/100,000 or 6yrs/100,000, but I said that it would be a good faith jesture by Toyota to show it’s customers that they are willing to stand behind the fix for an extended period of time/miles. I wiil wait and see what happens and update when I get some sort of response.

  40. Mickey says:

    John I hate to see what you’re going through. I was lucky when I purchased my 07 and got a lifetime warranty on the truck. It’s the dealer giving these warranties because the dealer believes in Toyota so he has these warranties. This is why I have no concern on what happens. I do my maintenace there at the dealership so they have the records of everything done. I hope they show good faith for you on this and extend your warranty out.

  41. […] to be much lower than 50%. I did some research on the TSB and this site has some good info on it: 2010 Toyota Tundra VVTi Gear Assembly TSB Explained | Tundra Headquarters IMO, you might be better off just letting it go (not doing the TSB) rather than getting it […]

  42. Rick says:

    if im am correct, these trucks come with a 5 yr/ 60k mile powertrain warrantee, the extension of the powertrain warrantee is i beleive a pre-boxed one that we all were offered in the finiance dept when we signed all fo the paperwork for a significant fee. it gives you a lot more miles, but only if you can drive that much by 72 mos. Im surprised the dealer would have to be the one to hawk this up. its not the dealers fault, and when i went head to head with them on this, i stated that this something i expected from Toyota and not the dealer. on toyotas website, i do not see a powertrain warrantee any longer than the 6 yr 100k one. it would be a little nicer if it were 7 yrs. but i’ll be satisfied with the 6 years.

  43. texmln says:

    Removing the timing cover, valve covers and intake manifold isn’t remotely close to ‘open heart surgery’. Not only is it nowhere near a ‘rebuild’, in the not too distant past high school kids would have done a similar job after school (and finished in time for dinner) just to throw some prettier chrome parts on their engine for looks. If our country wasn’t so full of metrosexuals who know more about manicures than manifolds this fix wouldn’t even warrant a forum for discussion.

  44. Jason says:

    DJ – I would suggest that you ask the dealership to get it done or you’ll file a complaint. Most dealers can get this handled with a phone call.

    John – 2.5 hours is brutal. I think your odds of getting an extension are quite good. As for the spring loosening up, not likely.

    Rick – Toyota would probably pay for the warranty upgrade, but it can’t be approved unless a dealership makes the request. Toyota’s customer service process is designed to foster a relationship between dealers and customers, which is why I don’t advocate calling Toyota’s 1-800 number. Most of the time, the call center simply sends an email to the dealership’s customer relations manager, who then resolves the problem.

    Texmln – LOL. I don’t know about the metro comment, but you’ve got my vote. This really is a basic repair.

  45. Frenchy says:

    Metrosexuals? What kind of stupid statement is that? You must of stumbled on to this website by mistake. Of course since you mentioned High school kids, that is a remark I would expect from one.

  46. Rick says:

    texmln, whatever dude…. i’m sure in the end it will all work out. lets see what you have to say when your car, truck, whatever you drive needs a repair like this three days after you bought it. communicating with Jason and almost everyone else in this blog are people searching for real answers and not the pacifying BS that you’ll get from the dealer. if your remotely normal and not a metrosexual, whatever the F that is, you would do your homework and find out all you could about this. i dont call removing the timing chain cover and the intake manifold and all the stuff before it to get to those parts a “bactine and a bandage and go back out to play with your buddies” cut or scrape. sorry but, i dont agree with you. ive come to the reality that this is what it is, and i may as well go to bat for myself and get what i can. a metrosexual probably wouldnt know the difference between an oil change or this repair….but they can tell you where the best sushi is in town. you didnt find any blogs on me all up in a frienzy about my accelerator now did you? thats because anybody with half a brain can figure out how to get the car to stop even in the very unlikely event the accelerator gets stuck.

  47. Mickey says:

    Metrosexual (often refered to as “semigay”) a portmanteau of metropolitan and heterosexual, is a neologism of the 2000s that refers to a heterosexual man (especially one living in a post-industrial, capitalist culture) that has a strong concern for his appearance or a lifestyle that displays attributes stereotypically associated with homosexual men.

    The term originated in an article by Mark Simpson[1] published on November 15, 1994, in The Independent. Simpson wrote:

  48. Frenchy says:

    Rick, my sentiments exactly.

  49. Denise says:

    I recently purchased my dream truck, a 2010 Toyota Tundra. Sure enough my check engine light came on at less then 100 miles. I took it in and they found the problem to be this VVT-i assembly. I am very upset by this because I too feel like they are having to do a major repair to a brand new truck and of course I am worried about it being “good as new”. What do you think? Should I be concerned that they are going to screw something up or should I be comfortable with this? I am ready to ask for a totally new truck! Please give me your honest opinion.

  50. Rick says:

    Mickey, thanks for the clarification. i didn’t realize what i else i might be enlightened on over an engine defect forum. my bad! you da man.

  51. Frenchy says:

    I am in the same boat with the same questions. It sounds like a fairly straight-forward repair, But I and many others are skeptical about having our engines pulled apart. I am waiting on a answer for my dealer about an extension on my drivetrain warranty as a good faith jesture to me and hopefully all other new Tundra owners.

  52. Jason says:

    Denise – I understand where you’re coming from. This really is a basic repair, but it doesn’t *sound* basic, and a lot of people are understandably upset that a new truck needs this type of work. I think the right thing for Toyota would be to offer anyone with this TSB a free warranty extension. I think the right thing for Tundra owners is to relax a little and trust that their local Toyota dealer can manage this fix.
    Honestly – and this isn’t directed at anyone in particular – I believe the expectations for new vehicles are simply way too high. I think people forget that cars contain 20k+ separate parts. The fact that one spring is a little too stiff shouldn’t be viewed as a major quality problem, and while I don’t agree with the way it was said, Texmln had a point: part of the problem is that most people don’t know much about vehicle repair, so they assume that this TSB is invasive when it’s really not.
    Ultimately, this issue comes down to trust. If Toyota steps up and decides to improve the warranty on any vehicle that has this repair, I think the trust is restored.

  53. Denise says:

    Thank you for your answer. I feel the same way, I just needed someone with knowledge on this to reassure me. Thank goodness for this forum.

  54. CSM says:

    Hello All,

    This is a update to my previous posts.

    I received my truck back on Thursday (28JAN10) with the above TSB fix. I drove the truck with no problems until Saturday (30JAN10) when the engine stopped working compleatly. As a little background, this is the 5th time it has been in to the service depart with the same problem. I spoke with the GM and asked to have my truck replaced. He informed me that he would need to talk to Toyota on this matter and would get in touch with me on Monday (01FEB10). Right now, I have not had my truck in the service department for more days than I have owned it. (1,200 total miles on the odometer) If Toyota is unwilling to replace, then I will file Lemon Law today. I have met the required number of tries plus 1, and I doubt the service department can fix the problems under the 30day maximum as well. (I have already been without the truck a total of 20 days. I will keep you all informed. Thanks for all the help.

  55. Frenchy says:

    CSM, That really blows!!!
    If that does not warrant a new truck, I don’t know what would.
    Keep us updated.

  56. Jason says:

    CSM – The issue you’ve had 5 times – is it the check-engine light related to the TSB, or is it that your engine dies for no reason? If you’ve tried to have the same problem repaired three or more times, in most states that qualifies a vehicle for replacement under the lemon law statute…but it’s got to be the same issue, and it’s go to be three different repair attempts…and it varies by state.

  57. CSM says:


    Here is a rundown.

    1) Check Engine Light = On Code P0012/P0022
    Service Dept = Change Oil and Reset Light

    2) Check Engine Light = On Code P0012
    Service Dept = Change Oil and Reset Light

    3) Check Engine Light = On Code P0012/P0022
    Service Dept = Change Oil and Reset Light

    4) Check Engine Light = On Code P0012/P0022
    Service Dept = Rip Engine apart to fix VVT Spring as described in the TSB

    5) Check Engine Light = On Engine stopped working Code ???????
    Service Dept = Currently in the shop now.
    When I mean the engine quit working, I mean I was driving a little over 1 mile from my house, and the engine started running rough. Then, the engine shut off and would not even try to crank back up.

    I havent filed the Lemon Law paperwork yet today because I want to see if the GM will make things right. (aka swaping out my truck with a different one.) If it is decided to not, I will Overnight the paperwork to Toyota.

  58. […] Re: In shop after 450 miles… Wrong spring factory installed in some 2010 4.6L and 5.7L VVTi gearing causes P0012 and P0022 DTC's. 2010 Toyota Tundra VVTi Gear Assembly TSB Explained | Tundra Headquarters […]

  59. Denise says:

    Well I just got off the phone with the Customer Service manager from my dealership and he said “probably not” to a free warranty. He said he would let me know in a few days. I’ll let you know then. thanks for letting me vent.

  60. Rick says:

    CSM, i feel terrible for the situation you are in. sucks big time to buy a truck like this and have this happen. i would like to have confidence in toyota and somewhat do…but the work has to be performed AND i have to drive it for awhile and see what happens. i think you have to go through them doing the VVTI repair THREE times before its considered a lemon!! not sure though.

    Denise, the toyota way is supposed to be ultimate in customer satisfaction. you need to let them know you will not have any peace of mind or confidence in their product unless they extend that powertrain warrantee. that is basically what i had to tell the GM at the dealership i bought from. do i have it in writing yet from them, no, but i havent been back there becuase the parts are not in yet. i’m not worried about it. if he is a man of his word, it should be no problem. my asking for routine scheduled maintenance to 60k miles and they come back trying to sell me a warantee extension for the rest of the vehicle???? i’m still trying to figure that one out. i know i wont end up getting much here, but at least i tried.

  61. T. Aquino says:

    Bought 2010 Tundra Crewmax SR5 4×4 5.7 eng. on Dec.4,2009, Check eng. light came on @160 mi.( ARE U KIDDING ME!!!) then it went off the next day. Went out of town for X-mas and to another dealership and just asked out of curiosity and was told that it suppose to do that,yeah right! Took it in for 5000mi. service today and told it was P0012 code and they had ordered parts. They’ll call me to bring the truck in for repair when the parts come in ( camshaft gears). No charge for the service that day (after telling the sevice mgr. I shouldn’t have to pay). I’ll be contacting them tomorrow about extending my warranty.If they believe in product support and customer loyalty the should come through.

  62. Frenchy says:

    Hey T.,
    Same deal here, but good luck with the warranty. According to my dealer it is not up to him, but Toyota to extend the warranty. When I talked to Toyota last week, they said it was up to the dealer to extend it. Sounds like a bunch of double talk to me and someone better step up and address issue. Enough of the BS already!!! Back up your product/work with a promise of satisfaction and reliability. Thats all we are asking for here Toyota!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  63. Jason says:

    CSM – That’s just ugly…five problems, only one documented fix. I’m not sure if it will qualify for lemon law replacement (I don’t know the law in your state), but I would suggest that you file the paperwork. Toyota isn’t going to give you anything until you show them you’re serious.

    However, before you send it over, you might talk to the service manager at the dealership you’re working with one last time. Sometimes those guys can make a phone call and get something handled fast.

  64. […] Spring Replacement Thread Has anyone taken their truck in to have the VVTi spring replaced? https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2010/01/26/2010-toyota-tundra-gear-tsb/ This is what's throwing the CEL and P0012/P0022 codes in the first 1,000 miles. If so, how did it […]

  65. Jason says:

    Denise – I think you can make it happen, but you might have to raise some hell. Toyota would be wise to just include an enhancement as part of this TSB and be done with it…it’s not like it’s going to cost them a lot of money.

    Frenchy – Calling Toyota’s customer service number is a complete waste of time. Here’s how it works when you call them: 1. they create a case file. 2. they forward the case file to the dealership. 3. the follow-up with the dealership to see if they solved the problem. True story!

    As for the dealer saying it’s up to Toyota, that’s true. However, the person you talk to on the phone at Toyota customer service has no power. Instead, the service manager at your local dealership has the right number to call. He or she can call their regional office, talk to the customer service rep for the region, and then get an approval in a few minutes.

    FYI – for anyone who is reading this and wondering how to get a warranty extension, follow the procedure outlined HERE: https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2007/04/30/toyota-customer-service-tips-for-getting-your-problem-solved/

  66. Denise says:

    My truck has been in the shop for 4 days now, a part was back ordered and they are waiting for it. When this is all done what are the chances my new truck will be 100%? Are there any owners who have been pleased with the TSB assembly work?

  67. CSM says:

    Jason, thanks for your response.
    I spoke face to face with the GM yesterday and was told they would swap the truck with a new one. 1 problem though. They can’t do anything until this stop sale is lifted. I am hopefully looking at the end of the week to get anything definitive. I am pretty satisfied with my dealer at this point.

    I am not trying to scare you here, but I had the TSB fix performed on my truck. Unfortunatly, it did not work. Most likely something wasn’t installed correctly during the rebuild. What should give you some assurance is that the new 4.6 is almost identical to the 5.7 that Toyota has been using for years. So the techs should be very familiar with working with that engine. Hope that helps ease your mind.

  68. DJ says:

    I’m on day 8 with mine in the shop (after only owning it for 7 days) and they are still waiting on some parts (gaskets I think) – just got the ETA and it will not be until Feb 10th – add a few days for the work so I’m looking at the 12th to get it back. That will be 18 days best case. Not very pleased at this point, but the GM is working on getting the extended warranty and hopefully some other type of gesture to ease my pain. I will update with more info as I get it.

  69. Robert N says:

    can someone please give me a link to the pdf of this tsb so I can show the dealership….. they act liike they dont know anything about it

  70. Jason says:

    Denise – I think the chances are very, very good that your truck will be perfect.

    CSM – That’s awesome – great news for sure.

    DJ – Good to know. At least yours is getting fixed. I’m starting to hear that people can’t get parts for a few weeks now.

  71. Mickey says:

    Robert I haven’t seen it on ODI or NHTSA’s website. I just checked this past weekend and couldn’t find the TSB. Denise you shouldn’t worry about any worked performed on your truck unless the tech’s give you reason to believe that. I had many TSB’s and Recalls done on quite a few Ford’s and Chevy’s. I have that recall for the gas pedal on my truck to do. I have 77,780 miles on my 07 Crewmax. Although I did have four things fixed at my dealership on the truck which was warranty work. Replaced pass auto mirror, replaced center console cover, replaced two studs on the driver rear’s axle, and replaced a gas cap. Now Denise you should try to get the dealership to extend your warranty for 100,000 miles. That’s something the dealer can do for you. I fortunately have a liftime warranty which was given by the dealer here. He does that plus gives a free Nav to boot when you buy a Toyota from him. Unfortunately at the time I bought there was no free NAV so I lost out on that.

  72. Mickey says:

    Jason it’s a good possibility that Toyota was gearing towards getting the parts out for the recall sticky pedal than getting the normal stuff out. This is probably why the delay in the parts getting to the dealership.

  73. Denise says:

    Mickey’s and Jason, thank you for the reassurrance. I feel that my truck will be good as new too.
    CSM-Congratulations. I am so happy for you. It gives us all a little boost knowing that a fellow Tundra owner is taken care of.

  74. Mickey says:

    Denise I’m sure Toyota will go all out for their customers now to make sure they are satisfied. They have to build confidence in the customer again. I think that the loyal Toyota customer is in a win win situation here by sticking on Toyota’s side. The reason I left Ford and went back to Chevy and then left Chevy because of customer service. Ford and Chevy left such a bad taste in my mouth there is no turning back to them.

  75. Denise says:

    Thanks Mickey- ..I. had a issue with Nissan years ago. It was their customer service that was the issue more then the vehicle. It seems like we only hear the bad things about the situation and never the good. It really made me feel a lot better to hear that CSM had been offered a new truck. It shows good business on Toyota’s part.

  76. Jason says:

    Denise – No problem.

    Mickey – The suppliers are likely different, so I don’t think the pedal recall is impacting supplies so much as the fact that Toyota contracts just enough parts to build new trucks + a handful of spares. It’s doubtful they anticipated this repair, so they need the suppliers to increase production of gaskets, etc., to get this TSB completed. Pretty normal that there’s a delay, but it should be remedied soon (if history is any indicator).

  77. mk says:

    Jason, I had a new 07 RAV4 V6 with a leaking waterpump replaced and part of the engine torn apart to get at it to replace under warranty. A week later there was a gasket seal leaking oil – coincidence – maybe? maybe not? I just do not trust mechanics even at toyota dealers to do the job 100% correct 100% of the time and I have had terrible luck getting parts replaced correctly. I even had a new plastic step pad replaced under warranty on my 2007 tundra and the dealer FORGOT to check the plastic clips holding the inside part of the bumper pad on the metal bumper. I got it back and stepped on it and the plastic step pad moved a lot. I looked it over for a couple seconds and noticed I could pull up on the center of the step pad about 1 foot in the air. So, I think taking critical engine parts off and installing new gaskets, etc. and putting everything back together again without any missing parts like clips is very serious to ME. I will demand 7/100K powertrain warranty if and when I go into my toyota dealer. If not received, bye to Toyota. Thanks for responding to my complaint though – much appreciated.

  78. Frenchy says:

    mk, That is exactly what I mean about the factory seal being broken and parts taken off a new engine. I don’t care how good you say these mechanics are, there is always a chance, and I think a good one, that there will be complications down the road related to the previous fix. That is why I am not going in for this fix. I will live with the fact that the CE light may come back on, although it has been close to 1000 miles since it was reset and it has not come back on yet. Until I am told that the fix is a critical one and Toy is going to pony-up a extension on my drivetrain warranty, I am leaving the engine as-is, with it’s factory seal still intact. Stories like yours are the main reason I will not have mine taken apart. Period.

  79. Denise says:

    Jason- is there an actual factory seal that is on the engine when it leaves the factory? I would think that if the mechanic is decent and does the repair correctly, it would be just like whoever originally put it together.

  80. Mickey says:

    Mk replacing a water pump doesn’t touch anything dealing with the gaskets sealing for oil. Now the clips you stated for the bumper is correct. They muffed that job. I guess personally I preferred it back when I worked at a chevy dealership. You had specialized people that work in certain departments like I was in the Trim Dept. There I only worked on the interior and changed out winshields, back glass, carpet, seats radio’s. Fix water and air leaks etc. I didn’t work on the tranny, or engines etc. Now you have techs which are suppose to know it all on all vehicles.
    Denise when it’s referred to the “factory seal” no one has ever touched it since it came from the engine factory. Tech’s use the same gasket and sealant that is used on the engine in the factory. The techs are trained for their position and they take tests to keep their certifications. Now this doesn’t mean you have a sloppy tech and a tech who does it right. The best way to know is to talk to the service manager along with the tech doing the job. Get to know who these people are. Put a face with the name on the sheet. Let that tech know you will let him know if you aren’t satisfied with his work. Yes it will be like the original work. Your warranty is at stake so they know as well that the state’s lemon law can come into effect if that tech doesn’t do the job right.

  81. Denise says:

    Mickey-Thank you for clearing that up for me.

  82. mk says:

    Mickey, you’d be surprised what parts on my previous 07 RAV4 V6 they had to take off to get at that dang waterpump. I talked to the toyota mechanic who was doing the replacement and it looked like a mess. He spent over 6 hours taking off parts and putting it all back together and after getting pissed at dealership for waiting so long (they should of had 2 techs working on my vehicle to get it done in 1 day quicker), he rushed the job at the end even having to take off the right front tire to get at the water pump and made one hell of a mess on my engine block trying to fill up the radiator with antifreeze again. He rushed it so bad filling radiator back up, when I got home the reserve tank was empty and the radiator after I let it cool down was down 2-3 inches. Well, I was totally pissed and had to go back the next day to show them the reserve tank was empty and waste another 80 miles of driving, 15 bucks or so in gas yet again, and another 1/2 day bitching at the dealer all because the tech did not take the time to fill up the reserve and radiator correctly by double and triple checking antifreeze level after ONLY running it for a few minutes and not letting it cool back down to check again. Needless to say, I got a rental vehicle the 2nd day up there, but should have gotten one no questions asked for 1st day repairs if going to take over 3-4 hours time if you ask me. Haven’t went back to them since and never will. You expect me to trust certified mechanics to take part of my engine apart when they cannot fill up the radiator properly or install a new bumper pad over the chrome bumper and not notice the plastic clips were broken or missing on the new bumper pad? Idiots!

  83. Rick says:

    i was at the Ford dealer yesterday getting that cruise control recall fixed from like 5 yrs ago. check this out. even though i have this issue right now with the new truck, they had i’d say a late model maybe 2005- 2008 couldn’t get over by it to se it close up, but a late model F-150 in which they were doing engine repairs on where the cab of the truck was completely lifted off of the body and up in the air while the chassis and bed of the truck sit on the ground. i asked what this was about and he said some types of engine repairs thta need to be done, we found that it is just easier to remove the cab off of the truck than doing it from under the hood. i was like, holy crap!!!

    still waiting for the gaskets for my repair. still waiting for the Gm to call me back on finishing our convo.

    Frenchy, im not wild about this repair, but have to get it done. in the end, if it goes good i’m protected with at least the powertrain warr ext. if not, the lemon law would protect me if it gets to that point. but i feel the issue is effecting gas mileage. short of the fact i am warming it up before i leave in the morn, i cant get the average to be higher than 11.9 miles and its now dropped to 11.7 miles per gallon. i want to see 14 to 15 mpg. as my average. the truck should be warmed up for 5 to 10 min in my opinion in the am. i once left right away and you could tell the truck was real jerky for the first 5 to 10 min cuz i left with the truck not warmed up.

  84. Denise says:

    Geez mk, that is rediculous that the mechanic was that incompetent . What is amazing to me is that the auto industries seems like the only business group that will not take care of their customers. Why is it so much to ask for a new truck when you have only had it for two days and something major goes wrong with it. If it were just a knob falling off I could see not entertaining the idea for a replacement but this tsb thing seems like it is a major fix. If I took a loaf of bread back to the store because it molded they would replace it. Why is the auto business so different? Is there a law that says they can’t do it? Or is the industries so greety they don’t want to?

  85. Jason says:

    mk – I think the issue is the dealership. I would definitely try someone else.

    Frenchy – Got to get it fixed dude – a check-engine light isn’t a good thing to ignore, and you’re not going to want to bring it in every time the light comes on.

    Denise – Mickey is spot on about the “factory seal” – the guys at the local shop have the same stuff.

    Rick – That’s something we used to do back in my Ford days on the big diesels. Those engines are CRAMMED into the trucks, so taking the body off is usually easier. The thing is, Ford specifically told us *NOT* to do that…something about it not being a recommended procedure. But, we did it anyways because it was much faster.

  86. Mickey says:

    Mk just like Jason stated get another dealership. You’re right idiots. That’s radiator 101 to run the engine to let the waterpump start circulating the water and then fill up the rest of the way in the radiator not the overfill. Once that hasn’t move in 10 minutes you’re good. Then stop engine and fill overflow to the recommended area. Then you checked your fluid the next day to see if you need it.
    Rick/Jason if you’re taking the cab off the frame wouldn’t this cause a good possibility of rattles to begin?
    Denise you’re right the tech was and is incompetent. Manufacturer’s have come a long way Denise from my time. Back then you were lucky to get a whopping 12 month 12,000 mile warranty. Now you have warranties going from 3 year 36,000 miles up to 10 year 100,000 miles. It does fall down to the mighty dollar too.

  87. Denise says:

    I just got my truck back from the dreaded VVT-i assembly. So far so good. I’m almost afraid to say anything. When I bought my truck I purchased an extended warranty. I just like that extra security. It is 86 months or 75,000 miles. Its worth it for piece of mind.

  88. […] New TSB on the 2010 VVT-i CEL issue? Not to be picky but…………. I posted this link 2010 Toyota Tundra VVTi Gear Assembly TSB Explained | Tundra Headquarters on the other thread which is the same info and probably the same source as your […]

  89. Jason says:

    Mickey – I don’t think so. I asked the tech that started implemented that particular technique what problems it would cause, and he said that, as long as the bolts all go back in where they’re supposed to, nothing can go wrong. I think Ford’s issues with it were 1) it looks bad to some customers to see their vehicle in two pieces 2) after a horrific crash in a vehicle that has been repaired this way, an attorney could argue the vehicle’s crash integrity was compromised 3) It’s dangerous to balance the body of a vehicle on a lift – I saw one 350 long box that needed multiple supports to be stable. If someone wasn’t paying attention and hit one of the supports, that would have been a very expensive and potentially dangerous mistake.

  90. mk says:

    I just got done calling my selling dealer, not the local Toyota dealer, and they are the biggest tundra seller in my state. He said, so far, they have not had to take apart any 2010 tundra engines to replace the spring for the TSB. Before the bulletin came out, they did change the oil for free, reset the error code, and not have had any owners come back in to get the TSB done since probably the check engine light has not come back on. He said all of the check engine light/error code TSB 2010 tundras have come in before 1,000 miles and before the TSB came out and the engine oil change, so far, has taken care of it for now and is not likely my 2010 tundra at 7,000 miles now will have any issues whatsoever (I hope). They also said since it is a TSB, not a recall, they cannot do the TSB just because your vin# is in the TSB, but either the check engine light with correct error code has to come on or you are experiencing significant loss in mpg or engine lack of power, etc. So, I guess since with 7K on my 2010 tundra and no lack of power, just a slight drop off of 2 mpg probably to blame on winter blended fuel and cold outside sucking more gas, I will wait until spring/summer and pray my gas mpg goes back up to normal at 17 avg. mpg. Just thought I’d share to not go running into your dealer expecting to get the TSB done if no error code, check engine light, lack of power/acceleration, or terrible mpg just because your vin# says it is part of the TSB.

  91. Jason says:

    mk – Interesting. Two Toyota dealership service managers I spoke with assured me that Toyota will authorize this repair whether the check engine light is on or not.

  92. […] than AX125616 •4wd 5.7L DoubleCab Long Bed Tundras with the last 8 lower than AX010329 2010 Toyota Tundra VVTi Gear Assembly TSB Explained | Tundra Headquarters __________________ Any questions about truck mods I have done need to be asked in the forums. […]

  93. CSM says:

    Hello to All again,

    Im back in cyberworld to report on all my happenings.
    For those who dont know my problem, here is a strip down explination.

    1)Chk Engine Light>Oil Changed>Light reset
    2)Chk Engine Light>Oil Changed>Light reset
    3)Chk Engine Light>Oil Changed>Light reset
    4)Chk Engine Light>Major Engine work Performed
    5)Engine stopped working>Picked up and received a free ride with tow-truck driver.

    Miles to date = Less than 1300.

    Well I am going on to my second week with a rental.
    The GM is replacing the truck with a new one.
    Last update I had was that they may ha Owner Loyalty Cashve the new truck for me by the 19th of Feb.
    So as for me, I continue to wait and hope all will be done earlier.

    On a good note, when the paperwork is redone for the swap, I am going to insist on the new $1000.00 Toyota Owner Loyalty Cash.

    Even though this is my first Toyota, I feel I have been more than loyal.

  94. Frenchy says:

    Well, it has been over 1600 miles since my 1st and only CHK engine light. Jason, you say that I must have this work done. I am kind of leaning towards mk’s take on the situation. If I do not have the CEL come back on again, what is wrong with doing nothing???? Is there any data that says this a “must do” repair?? If so, what is supposed to be the problem if the work is not done? I am still thinking of waiting to see if the CEL comes back on and then calling the dealer. OBTW, there is a back-order on some of the parts to do the repair, so I guess it will be a wait and see deal. Also I was told by the GM at my dealership that Toy is NOT interested in extending the DT warranty of this fix. Way to go Toy, I will seriously think about looking at a different brand of truck the next time I am looking to buy. So much for trying to get the consumers confidence and loyalty back. Bad move!!

  95. Rick says:

    still waiting for parts, some highly highly rare gasket that the little japo’s can’t seem to find….. they tell me friday now they should have the part….by then the GM should have no recollection whatsoever of his verbal power train warr extension, seeing how he doesnt even return calls to pick up where we left off….

  96. Jason says:

    Frenchy – The deal here is really simple – the spring is too stiff. At some point – when the oil has enough wear on it and doesn’t hold hydraulic pressure as well – it will not be “strong” enough to overcome the VVT-i gear assembly spring. That will disable the VVT-i system, which means you’ll get less horsepower and worse fuel economy. Also, the dealership will be granted an extension if they ask. Other dealers have done it – that fact has been documented here many times.

  97. sab says:

    Re: VVTi spring issue w/ 2010 Tundra dbl cab w/ 5.7&. With @<500 miles, the CEL came on (during 1st highway trip in my new truck). I presumed contaminated oil; took to nearby dealership (not selling dealership); several days later I was notified of VVTi spring issue; dealership tried to fix it; days pass; dealership called to inform of "engine knocking and rattling;" tried to fix but they weren't satisfied, etc. At that point (~3 weeks after leaving at dealership), I told them I didn't want the truck back; I called my selling dealership, who informed me yesterday that I would be getting a replacement truck. Both dealerships have been open and honest.
    Again, I don't know much about engines and trucks, but it seems apparent that the VVTi spring repair, at least for some Toyota service sites, is not an "easy fix." To my mind, it's a contradiction to tout the technologically-advanced state of an engine and then state that it is "simple" to disassemble and rebuild that same engine (note that the same info that says the repair is simple also states that the owner should expect to be without their truck for several days, which to me comprises a red flag). Do we all really think that all of Toyota's technicians can be proficiently trained on all of the newer engine technologies on all the cars they sell (some salesmen can't even tell you much about some of their products, and all they have to do is read the literature)? Not sure anyone should feel good about a tech taking down their brand new factory engine and rebuilding it for any purpose.
    Bottom line: if you are informed of a VVTi spring issue, be VERY critical of the fix and resulting job/workmanship, i.e., test drive the truck with the Service Manager before taking the keys back. My suspicion is that a lot more info about this defect will be publicized in the coming months. In my experience it's pretty darn serious. Hopefully the problem is rare in new Tundras.

  98. Frenchy says:

    Another story that confirms my doubt of the techs ability to break into my engine and repair it as new/from factory. I am telling you all, no, and I mean no amount of your explainations and technical “simplicity” of fix is going to convince me that this is going to be a fix that does not cause problems after the fact. Wait and see people, wait and see……

  99. sab says:

    RE: VVTi issue on 2010 Tundra dbl cab 5.7L.
    I checked back with my selling dealership and the tech/service guy at the other dealership who has now taken the engine apart (twice). Now, apparently, there is some doubt about whether or not I am getting a new truck. As per the recommendation of the dealer, I called the 800 number. Gee, I wonder if anyone else is calling Toyota now? … was on hold for 32 minutes (after not even being allowed to be on hold for the first few attempts at calling the number- “Due to high call volume we cannot take your call, click”).- Great, I buy a NEW truck for $23K, it breaks, gets disassembled, put back together improperly, then I’m directed to an 800 number that says “sorry, we’re too busy to help you.” I finally got through, gave the lady on the phone my “statement” and she said “if you don’t hear from us in 2 working days call us back and we’ll expedite the situation.” So, 2 days from now I need to take another 1/2 hour off of work to listen to Toyota elevator music??? WTF, seriously. I’ll post again when it’s over, but, seriously, this is absurd. If anyone out there is thinking of pulling the trigger on a new Tundra right now, think twice about it. Not only are they facing some serious tech/quality issues (and I am NOT talking about some silly accelerator pedal/carpet stuff; the VVTi “fix” = engine rebuild), it is self-evident that they don’t even know how to fix their own vehicles AND their “customer service” seems out of whack- completely overloaded right now due to the recalls. Oh well.

  100. Denise says:

    My truck had the VVT-i issue. It was in the shop for several days. In fact it was there 6 days because there was a part on back order. When I got it back I was worried but it seems like the truck is fine so far. It drives great. Hopefully I won’t have a problem. I was very upset when the check engine light came on after I only had it for two days. But my dealership was very good with me and I’m hoping this is the end of this. When I here stories like sab i get concerned again. I hope everything turns out good for you.

  101. Jason says:

    Sab – That sucks. I don’t understand why this has happened. Why did they repair the engine twice? Is this the VVT-i gear assembly issue, or is it something else? As for customer service, I feel your pain.
    To anyone doubting the relative simplicity of this repair: Don’t fall into the trap that this is a “rebuild.” This repair is nothing like a rebuild – if you can’t take my word for it, or the word of others commenting here, visit the local dealership and ask to speak to the technician. Fear is not a basis for rational decision making.

  102. DJ says:

    Update on my truck with the VVTi TSB. Parts finally have arrived at the dealer today (took 18 days from when I dropped it off) – weather here in the NE hurt me by a few days, but most of the delay was getting the Gasket. I should get it back on Monday (Gas pedal fix too). I have spoken to the service manager at the dealer the truck is at and the GM from the dealership that I bought it from several times. Both have been very supportive and professional. I have been giving the background of the techician that will do the repair along with exactly what will be done – now feel very comfortable with them and the service manager will go on a test drive with me after the repair. I have been informed by the GM told that Toyota will honor an extedned warranty (at least the drivetrane for 100K) and they have also provided a bed liner at no cost as a sign of good faith for the troubles. Still working a few other items to ease my pain. I have been impressed with all of the people that I have dealt with at both dealership and feel they are making every effort to support me.

  103. Frenchy says:

    DJ, wow, I wish I had your dealership working with me. I mentioned the extension of my DT warranty to 100k and he said that his Service manager talked to Toyota/Regional rep and they said no way to the extension. Plus you get a bedliner!!!! I have to take my truck in Tuesday and I hope there is no horror story linked to this repair as others have had.

  104. DJ says:

    I have worked very closely with the dealerships – several hours with them in person and on the phone – I guess when you spend $35K and 3 days later you have to bring it back and they keep it for 3 weeks they do feel bad. I’m still not out the woods yet, but hopefully next week this will all just be a memory.

  105. Frenchy says:

    I have spoken to the dealer 4-5 times already about having something done in compensation for inconvience and down right being upset about having a brand new 35k truck needing this kind of work. But so far they have not offered a damn thing. I am thinking of getting rid of it if I have a single problem after the “fix”. If nothing else I will trade it for a new, supposedly improved model.

  106. Clint says:


    You might try some leverage and ask them if and tell them you plan on contacting the local news about how they are handling flaws in the products they sell. If they don’t change their tune then I would go ahead and give the local news the information about the problem and let them run with it. I am sure any news stations is salivating at the chance of exposing another problem with Toyota products.

  107. Frenchy says:

    Actually, I am going to go the previous day in the afternoon so we can speak to the owners/GM. And I am bringing my wife, which will a much greater threat than a news release. I would not want to be in their shoes come Monday afternoon!!!!! The sparks will be flying…

  108. Anonymous says:

    good feedback Clint. Frenchy, NICE!!! my parts are in but SOL on the loaner so now bringing it there Mon morn. I am going to go there today to see if i can pick up where i left off with the GM. and make sure that i get to meet the mechanic tha is doing the repair etc. i have to get the Powertrain warrantee in writing and i do feel i should try to get something else out of them for the aggravation and tons of time spent on this, regardless of what others blogging here feel on that topic. so, it looks as if three of us will have this work done next week. i hope i report good news. i’ll let you all know.

  109. JH says:

    Really appreciate all of the information provided from everyone. I also have a 2010 5.7 Tundra 4X4 which after 350 miles had the CEL come on. Went straight to the dealer and was told that an oil change was all that was neded and that they have had no other Tundras return after having the oil changed. They also failed to mention that a TSB had been issued regarding the VVTi issue. I understand the fix and what is involved but I still don’t think I am willing to have it done unless/until it happens again. This is my 5th Toyota 4X4 and have never had any problems before. Thanks for the info.

  110. Jason says:

    DJ – Sweet! That’s great.

    Frenchy – I wish you were working with DJ’s dealer too – that place goes above and beyond. If you haven’t looked at my post about Toyota customer service, you might want to peruse it before your meeting on Monday.

    Clint – That never works man. I worked in dealerships for years – if you really want to scare them, start talking about you’re going to rate their customer service every time you return. Threatening to fill out and return each and every survey card “completely unsatisfied” will be more effective. Most people don’t know this, but Toyota will take away a dealership’s franchise if they have a lot of negative feedback.

    JH – Thanks for commenting.

  111. Jill says:

    Just when I’m stressing over the VVT-i problem and bringing it in to be fixed, our 2010 Tundra Rock Warrior has another problem. Our 4WD-hi lo light on our dash started flashing continuously, and now the truck will not shift into 4WD. Was driving so rough that we weren’t sure we were even going to make it home. My confidence in this product has really diminshed. This is two different mechanical problems within a few months and with only 2,600 miles…..what next? My husband’s furious!

  112. Jason says:

    Jill – That sucks. Let us know how it goes.

  113. rick says:

    we just had a snowstorm earlier this week and i tried to put in in four wheel low from four wheel high by putting it into neutral and it takes a long time for it to engage. it does all this beeping. i did it two times where i held up traffic becuase it was taking so long to engage. on my f-150, its a simple and quick and once its in, its an unbeleviable amount or power and torque. on the tundra, it feels quite a bit different. it is not jerky at all but is geared really low. it didnt seem like you could go 20 miles an hour, but next time it snows i want to try it again. now i see yesterday there was a recall on 8000 2010 tacoma’s with a propeller shaft issue. Jason, do you think this thing is headed for a recall? Any idea on how many trucks where effected by this batch of bad springs?

  114. Jill says:

    Update on my 4WD issue (sorry for venting, I’m calm now, and next time I’ll spell check:))-after sitting for a few hours the 4WD hi low light stopped flashing and truck would then engage in 4WD. We are scratching our heads, cannot figure it out. Earlier that day, the light started flashing on the dash for no apparent reason, we just turned a corner, and there it was! We pulled over and tried to engage the 4WD, but nothing happened. Truck then began riding rough…husband said it felt like his old F-150 when the hubs failed to lock in properly…like there was a drag! Manual says to bring it to Toyota right away, but guess we’ll have to wait til it does it a second time (hoping it was just a fluke thing…my 4-Runner does some flukey things on a rare occasion, so I’m keeping my fingers crossed). I did google it yesterday and found someone else that essentially had the same problem, but I do not know the outcome! Will keep you posted.

  115. MJB says:

    Oh, you wanted a vehicle that worked as advertised. That was a additional option of $20k. Are you sure it is a 4wd and not a TRD wanna be look like a 4wd? That would be hilarious, my truck won’t go in 4wd, and it a trd model so it standard option right. LMAO please keep it coming. Never a dull moment!!

  116. rick says:

    brought the truck in today. got the powertrain warrantee in writing. the midnight shift or 2nd shift mech is going to do the repair, so waited awhile, then left, and came back this eve (45 min drive one way) in the prius they loaned out to me to chat with the tech. he wasnt real warm on it, the book doesnt give him the time it takes in pay to do the repair is my guess. Hopefully toyota will learn that it takes a lot longer so these guys get paid aligned with their time. my four wheel drive would not go into 4-low while i ws there, or if it did, the beeper noise would not stop, no matter what. tech said oil in case probably like honey??? thing is is the truck was driven 45 min to get there and warmed up in the drive at least 15-20 min. how much warmer can you get it??? we’ll see what happens.

  117. Frenchy says:

    rick, I brought mine in today also. They will begin work on it in the morning. I hope everything goes well. Had a long talk with one of the owners and we pushed for an extension on the DT warranty, plus a couple perks like a detail job on the truck and a free oil change. I am also going to check on getting some Toyota cash if possible. Maybe I will get lucky. I always say, it don’t hurt to ask… Will post the results when the truck is back in my hands.

  118. rick says:

    good luck Frenchy, as far as the powertrain warrantee, i was given dealer paperwork as if i bought it from them, they just are picking up the cost of it is the way i see it. also, they are currently offering me a platinum warrantee on the remainder of the truck for $735, which is for 6 yrs. 125k miles. again it seems to be associated wit hthe dealer and not toyota themselves. i am contemplating this actually now, but am waiting to see what toyota is going to be doing as far as incentives, rebates, price cuts, wahtever you want to call it to tundra buyers in the near future. we heard via news, wall street stuff etc. or wherever that they may?? be very attractive come the first of march. the dealer is even willing to let me finiance separatly the $735 plan with 20% down zero interest if i pay the bal in 12 mos. i thought that was very nice.

  119. Jason says:

    rick – Haven’t heard of any other trucks with that issue. I didn’t see in your comments that the dealership found the problem. They’re the guys to talk to.
    jill – That’s a new one, but it’s starting to sound like a pattern. I’ll ask around.
    MJB – LOL.
    Frenchy – Let us know how it goes – I know you’re very concerned, so I’ve got my fingers crossed that your luck is better than mine.

  120. DJ says:

    After 3 weeks at the dealer, I got my truck back last night. So far so good. The dealer did installed a new bed liner at no cost – Was told that I will get the extended warranty, but don’t have the details yet. Pleased with all of the support from the dealers involved, but still way too long to be without my new truck and this shouldn’t happen in the 1st place. They also did the recall portion of the accelerator.

  121. rick says:

    i picked up my truck today. the repair took the tech about three days and i dropped in yesterday to see how it was going. i got to see the defective parts, they are the components with the gears on them that you see in the you tube video at the front of this blog, but in the case of the 5.7 it actually looks different from the engine in the picture. when i saw the truck yesterday this is what i got to see. the wheels were off the truck to get the truck to sit on the lift lower to the ground so the guy could do the work easier, the radiator was sitting in the bed of my truck and a few boxes of a bunch of other parts, lots of parts. it was surprising but i placed my confidence in the tech and 24 hrs later he was done and i picked up the truck. so far it purrs like a kitten. i do think the guy did do a really nice job with it, even though he says he hopes he doesnt have to do another one. with regards to the 4×4, they say it works fine and couldnt get it to repeat symtoms. we’ll see what happens. but if before the remainder of the winter is over, i want to put it into 4 low to make sure it goes in. i dont feel that the truck having only 500 miles on it should make a difference. what if i was in the snowplow business? bad excuse. 4×4 option on the truck costs a ton of money, i expect it to work and work really well. so, i am happy so far with the repair, i will really baby the truck for the next 500 to 1000 miles and hopefully this will be over. i will say this, with the wheels off the truck i was able to see the suspension, the shocks and some other things. the truck is built with a lot of improvements that look really heavy duty. they said the downshifting/ engine braking is completely normal .

  122. Frenchy says:

    I got my truck back today too. It took 2 days and 9 hours. The truck runs like the day I bought. I can’t say enough how impressed I was with the attitude of the GM, the Service director, and the technician who did the work. This was the first Tundra they had done and they were surprised how much work there was. When I brought it in they said 1 day. After 2 days they said it should be ready tomorrow afternoon. I received a free complete detail job and a free syn oil change, and a full tank of gas. They also are considering paying for extension on our DT warranty. Supposedly Toyota is coming out with some sort of incentive or warranty extension or someting or that sort comiing up in March, so the dealer is waiting to see what happens before they dish out the cash for the extension. Makes sense to me. Overall I am very happy with the repair.

  123. Jason says:

    DJ – Awesome. That’s a good deal.

    rick – I remember once upon a time someone telling me that cold weather sometime effected the automatic transfer case switching mechanism. It was in regards to an F150 from a few years ago…I’m not sure if it was true then, but I’m wondering if it could be vacuum-actuated. Did the tech say anything about that?

    Frenchy – Glad to hear you were impressed – I know that you weren’t too excited about this repair. Here’s to hoping that you and everyone else has a trouble-free 200k! 🙂

  124. Frenchy says:

    Jason. Yup, so far so good. I am hoping for a trouble free truck from here on out. And if something comes up I won’t hesitate to bring it in after this extensive fix. Oh, by the way, the Tundra is by far the best truck on the road. End of discussion and debate. Period!!

  125. rick says:

    Jason, they insisted that it seemed to be operating normal, i just dont think it taking a real long time to go into 4 low from 4 high is normal. the first two times i did it, i held up traffic both times and had to abort out of it. then, the third time, i got it to go in and the beeping stopped. then, right at the dealer in front of the service guy, we got it to go into 4-hi no prob, but we dont really know if it went into 4-lo becuase we never drove it more than 2 to 3 mph and the beeping niose never stopped, even after all that, they say it is normal. Next snow we get i will try to definitely it again and see what happens.

  126. Jason says:

    Frenchy – Glad to hear it.

    rick – That’s tough. The gremlins are at work…if you can figure out how to replicate the issue, you can usually get it fixed. Unfortunately, that’s often very hard to do. Good luck!

  127. Justin says:

    36 hours and 92 miles after taking delivery of my new 2010 DC 4.6 4×4 the check engine light ….. Dealer takes a couple of hours to tell me that the VVT controller is bad, and backordered for an indetermined amount of time.

    I am thankful for all the information in this thread. Sunshine is a good thing and I certainly appreciate everyone sharing their experiences.

    That said, my confidence is really shaken and I’m torn on whether to keep the truck or not.

  128. Denise says:

    Justin, I know exactly how you feel. I just bought the truck I have wanted for a long time and had a VVT-i problem. I had a lot to say to the dealer. I wanted a new truck but they said no. So I had to let them fix it. Needless to say they did a great job. I have had it back for several weeks and have put another 400 miles on it, so far so good. Unfortunately we don’t know what we will get when we buy a new vehicle anymore. We hope there won’t be any issues but we are driving computers now and if anything goes wrong it is a big deal. Just remember, even if you got another vehicle you might have another issue that is worse. There is a very good chance they will do a great job on your truck. Document everything and go forward with the repair. Tundra’s are great trucks. Also even though they can’t fix your truck right away you can still drive it without any problems.

  129. rick says:

    thanks Jason, time will tell. im not worried. just want to to work as it should. thanks for all your feedback, i really appreciate it!

    Justin, the repair, though a big job is necessary and so far the engine purrs nicely, my gas mileage average is finally creeping over 12 mpg for the very first time since i’ve owned the truck i believe. the truck has about 650 miles. i know 14 mpg isnt anything to brag about, but its what i am shooting for.

    On another note, i did notice the engine is starting to make a bit of a funny noise like the diesel engine that others talk about in other forums. i’ll keep a listen on that.

  130. MJB says:

    This is hilarious!!! 95 miles that’s it and it needs maintenance! I’m lovin it. Frenchy is this what you get out of “the Tundra is by far the best truck on the road. End of discussion and debate. Period!!”? Is this what people expect out of new vehicles? Hell I have seen 14 year old $500.00 vehicles last longer than 36 hours and 92 miles after you bought it. Years longer! This must be quality! Keep it coming!

  131. Frenchy says:

    Where did you get 95 miles from???? Try 2452 miles. And yes, I would rather have a Toyota with problems that are resolved quickly and correctly than own a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge that could crap out on me at any given time and knowing that there will be MULTIPLE issues in the future guaranteed!! I will stick with Toyota, Period!!

  132. rick says:

    CSM, did you get a new truck? i was reading back through the thread and just wondering?

    John F, Did you get your truck fixed, if so whats the status?

    Denise, same question? so far so good?

    SAB? just trying to see what happened with some of you guys that blogged here before.

  133. John F says:

    Jason, yes I had it repaired and all is well so far. I went ice fishing yesterday and I had my box full of gear and a trailer with my 4-wheeler on the back. The truck ran like new without a problem. We are heading out to another lake today even further away and don’t expect any problems. The SM, GM, and Tech were all very professional, helpful and understanding as far as my apprehension and all is well.

  134. Denise says:

    Rick I have not had any other issues with my truck after the fix, everything is good.
    MJB I don’t want to sound rude but what is your interest in this forum? By the way you sound you are not a Tundra fan. I’ve searched for a reason you would be so upset but haven’t found one. Let me know why you are so upset at Toyota. I would really like to know, maybe I am over looking something

  135. MJB says:

    Toyota is all over the news, every where you look is Toyota this and that. So then you start to wonder what is with Toyota, and you find people that are diehard Toyota fans and boy do they say some funny things. This is comical. One on forum it how GM stole the Intellichoice Best Award Value Award and boy they seem upset they didn’t get it! Then there people like frenchy who says Toyota is the best but Justin just bought one and it broke down in what 36 hours. Then there Frenchy’s comment of ” I would rather have a Toyota with problems that are resolved quickly and correctly than own a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge that could crap out on me at any given time and knowing that there will be MULTIPLE issues in the future guaranteed!!”, ignorant comments like that are hilarious. This is why, remeber take out the floormat recall? How about accelerator issue that took how long to get a idea of the problem and how much longer to produce a fix. We won’t even go to the people who are still waiting on the fix! So yes this is a hilarious site and I love it, on one forum its we can’t figure out why we didn’t win the award and the following on its “my truck just broke down with 92 miles on it”. That’s funny I don’t care who you are!!!

  136. MJB says:


  137. Denise says:

    I’m not addressing this to anyone specifically but I do want to say this to everyone who is writing here. We do not drive cars or trucks anymore. We are driving computers. Years ago we wouldn’t have even known there was an issue with the VVT-i. We would have driven it until we started having other issues which could have taken quite a while. It is only because of the cel that we were aware of a problem. I have owned many different types of vehicles and the ones I have had the most success with are Toyota’s and Honda’s. I’m sorry that this offends the diehard American made car owners. I am just as willing to buy products from the USA if I have good experiences with them. Its too bad individuals have to get personal because of a difference in opinion over an inanimate object.

  138. Mickey says:

    Well said Denise……Well said….. MJB you haven’t read all recalls just the ones the media keeps plastering on us. Look up http://www.odi.dot.gov and look at defects investigations and you will be amazed how many things are happening and yet you know nothing about it. While you’re ther you can look up recalls and TSB’s on all vehicles. Unlike some people this is one of the official govt website for nhtsa. NHTSA has their own which is odi.nhtsa.dot.gov so go there then you can comment on all the things that are going on. Like Denise stated I now prefer Toyota since I had Ford’s and GM’s. Customer service pushed me to Toyota’s products.

  139. Jason says:

    Justin – Obviously I think Denise, Rick, and the others are right in that the truck is great. Assuming that the fix goes well – and it has for everyone else so far – the reasons you bought the truck will not have changed. Hope that helps, keep us posted.

    Rick – You bet. Good work on the follow-ups…I should be doing that, but I’m lazy. Thanks. 🙂

    MJB – I realize that it’s a lot of fun for you to come here and pee on all of our legs, but only a fool would pretend that Toyota’s vehicle quality problems are any more than anyone else’s. In fact, all of the quality studies conducted over the last 20+ years have listed Toyota at or near the top (usually neck-and-neck with Honda). I think it’s fair to say that, had someone bought a Ford, GM, or Dodge, they would probably be very happy. All the trucks are quite good these days, but none of them are perfect.

    Denise – You’re a diplomat in real life, right? 🙂 You are much nicer to MJB than he deserves, but you inspired me to try and be diplomatic as well. Thanks.

    John F – Cool! Ice fishing?! “Boring” and “cold” mixed together if you ask me… 🙂 I’m pleased to hear the dealership did a good job. I think one of the benefits of “Pedalgate” is that dealers are all sharpening their skills. I’ve also heard that Toyota is going to follow a few of my suggestions (not that they recognized me or anything, LOL) and offer better warranties + give dealers more leeway in repairs.

  140. Parker Davis says:

    I have a long comment else where on how much I dislike my 2010 Tundra. But I even forgot about the two occasions when I tried to go into 4 wheel drive. The light on the dash board kept flashing until I tried it 6 times. But even then I felt I wasn’t in 4 wheel drive on either occasion. Traction in was non existent and the traction control light came on and stayed on. Just one more of the 7 problems I will mention to the dealer when I go in for the acclerator recall fix next week. Only had the beast for 3 weeks, so I can’t wait for the check engine light to come on and I can bring it in so they can tear apart the engine. Was a believer, but know am a believer that Toyota quality and engineering has taken its rightful place in the toilet.

  141. Justin says:

    Dealer found equivalent truck with higher VIN number outside the scope of this TSB down state. Agreed to swap it out. We’ll learn if it is available Monday.

  142. Denise says:

    Parker- I’m sorry you have had this experience. I had a similar experience with a Ford Explorer a few years ago. But, I do want to say one thing about quality with any vehicle. There are lemons out there in every make and model. Toyota’s seem to have been one auto maker that hasn’t had too many public issues until recently. As I said in an earlier post I have had much success with Toyota. Yes, I did have the VVT-i issue but it’s fixed and behind me. Toyota was very good about everything and threw in a few extra’s for my trouble. In the next few month’s Toyota is going to do everything to improve their battered rep, but remember it’s the media that has got many worked up and not their car or truck.

  143. MJB says:

    Hey remember the “Toyota is gonna make Rams” april fools joke? Or how about all the jokes from the bailout time period? Then there was the “Tundra more American then ram”. There was a lot of them. So now when the shoes on the other foot it isn’t so funny? Why not it was hilarious then why not now? Its called karma. Everyone here was laughing at all the other manufactures making jokes when they where down, but did you EVER think Toyota would be down this bad? Maybe next time it won’t be “joke time” when others are down.

  144. Denise says:

    Oh MJB- Its called advertising. Its been going on for years by all companies. When you are selling a product this is what you do
    To be honest those ads, or jokes aren’t what prompted me to buy a Toyota, its my own experiences. I still don’t understand why you are so passionate about this. I came here to get some support and knowledge about this type of issue. It really helped me talk with my service advisor who also was very helpful. You seem to just want to spout off angry remarks. Did you have a bad experience with Toyota?

  145. John F says:

    Good luck Justin. Keep us up on the latest.

  146. Mickey says:

    Denise no need to try and rationalize with MJB and his kind. They are here to give any Toyota owners a hard time. What he refer’s too about Toyota making the Ram was run by Jason on April 1st last year. Hence the date. But MJB can’t let it go. Bailout MJB that is still there…. Tundra being more American content than your beloved Silverado. All I can say for you MJB look at NHTSA who put out all vehicle American parts content. I’m sorry your beloved SIlverado is only 55% American part content. While the Tundra was 80%. I have news for you MJB Toyota isn’t bad. You know that and that’s why you are here trying to bring down anyone to your beloved 55%. I can’t help it that your union friends decided to farm out parts to be made and the truck sub-assembled in Mexico and Canada. So now MJB since the Tundra is made here in Texas in the good ole USA. Are you telling me the American factory worker sucks? Since you want to put down the Tundra you’re basically putting down the good ole USA. Why is it that American companies GM/Ford/Dodge farm out of the country to build your products you aren’t raising an alarm about that? That’s good ole US $ going out of the country but we don’t get a wimper from you domestic lovers? Where Toyota a foreign name farms out to the good ole US to build their products. You hear the rant our money goes to Japan which is less than 10% of each vehicle sold. How much is 45% parts and to assemble these products in another country? I bet it’s over 10% So who’s really sending our money over to another country and our JOBS?

  147. Frenchy says:

    Mickey, you have hit the proverbial nail on the head. It seem the “domestic” fans seem to forget this point. But you know it is probably just us Tundra owners reading it our own way so that we look better than we are, right?
    Silverado’s, yeah I have owned a couple, F150’s too. You just cannot drive a Tundra and say the others, including Mopar, are better. Like I have said, I have owned the others and I am more pleased with the Tundra than I have ever been with the other manufacturers products.

  148. sab says:

    I posted on 9 Feb, I still don’t have my truck back. The servicing dealer cannot figure out what’s wrong with it. Last I heard, a cam shaft had been ordered. The initial issue was reportedly a VVTi pulley problem. Toyo’s 800 number “customer service representative” informed me that all they can offer is an extended warranty…. once the truck is fixed (if it ever actually is). I asked the rep for the phone number of the regional Toyo office (she said she couldn’t give me that information). I asked her to email me the “documentation” they are so quick to re-assure you with (she said those were “internal documents” and could not be sent outside Toyota). Basically, that stupid little “case number” you get merely serves as your PIN, the information it accommodates is useless since you’ll never actually gain access to it yourself. I have been out $25K for almost a month with no truck. The dealer I bought it from says “not our problem” and the servicing dealership says “it’s all up to Toyota”. Mind you this is a BRAND NEW 2010 TUNDRA- I put about 300 miles on it before the CEL went off, prompting me to take it to the dealership. Great truck? Maybe, I can’t remember what it looks like. Great customer service? Perhaps so long as there is no problem.
    I say again, anyone saying that the VVTi issue is trivial or “simple fix”- this is certainly not ALWAYS the case. I would STRONGLY recommend to anyone thinking of buying a Tundra to take a cold shower and WAIT A YEAR.
    I regret buying a Toyota, and at this point I have absolutely no confidence that I’ll be satisfied by the resolution of the issue. I still can’t believe it.
    And, for all who don’t know, the number for the regional offices are available online. Just Google it. If you are sucker enough to think the 800 number clowns are going to help you when the Sh-t hits the fan, think again. All I want is the truck I paid for. Now I have a 50-50 shot at getting a re-built truck with a twice rebuilt engine. AND, don’t tell me that they don’t take the engine apart- I saw it myself. Again, beware of the VVTi “easy fix.”

  149. Jason says:

    sab – It sounds like the VVT-i issue isn’t at play here. Ordering a camshaft is a bit different than what we’re talking about. As for recourse, I would suggest you pursue a lemon law claim immediately. Arbitration sounds warranted to me.

  150. Denise says:

    sab-It sounds like when the idiots tried to fix it the first time they made a bigger problem. Here is what I know from talking to my attorney. First document everything from the very beginning. Every conversation that you had with anyone associated with Toyota write it down. The next thing is stay calm and contact a lemon law attorney. You can go online and find one in your state. If you have been without your truck for at least 30 days, it doesn’t have to be in a row, it can be a few days here and a few days there, for the same issue; it is considered a lemon. Now I don’t know what state your in, but that does apply to most of them. I’m so sorry that has happened
    I know everything will work out. This is just a bump in the road.

  151. John F. says:

    Justin, Any word on your truck?

  152. Justin says:

    Replacement should be in today. For all my fear, the dealer really came through.
    I feel terrible for SAB, no one should have to go through your story. Best of luck to you. I wouldn’t be shy about naming names in your position.

  153. rick says:

    Holy crap!! maybe due to the fact our trucks our made with 80% us parts is why we are having so many probs LMAO!!! just kidding.

    SAB, yes definitely do the lemon law, your right at the timeframe necessarty to do it no prob from what i’ve heard.

    so far the truck drives fine. i used it this weekend and pulled a trailer that is prob 3,000 lbs or more. no real problems except it tows it very nicely. one thing i really like over the f-150 is that with the shifter on the floor, it makes it really easy to drive with a trailer. i prefer to upshift and downshift on my own when towing than letting the truck do it. with the f-150, that was a real pain in the ass. the shifter was on the steering wheel even though the truck was top of the line for its time (2001)

    the one thing that is a litle annoying is that every time you stop, the truck always wants to start in first gear which makes it a little jerky (when im not towing) i think any other vehicle i ever owne with an auot trans usually starts in second gear after you make a quick stop.

    Parker, good luck!!

  154. Parker Davis says:

    Had truck in for gas pedal recall today. Seems to have given a little bit more firmness. They looked a brakes and made an adjustment – that seems better too. Advised by tech that when in cold weather 5 -10 degrees sometimes it is difficult to get into 4×4 the first time. Told when the light flashes should drive right, then left, then back up a little and it should be okay. Sounds like a lot of trouble, but will try that next time I have problem. So, am feeling better about a few things.
    One of the things I have discovered is that Toyota owners (especially Tundra) are very, very sensitive about anything negative said about their vehicles. They keep saying “look at all the complaints about Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc. Well, when Ford and Chevy sell about 30,000 trucks a month each and Dodge about 10,000, and Toyota about 4,000 – yeah I guess there would be more complaints about the big three. But, learning to live with the Tundra beast – have no choice to learn to love its quirkyness.

  155. rick says:

    over the weekend when i was towing that trailer, once i got to the campsite, i had to put it into 4 low, it went right in no prob. had been on the road for 1 hr and 15 min.

  156. Denise says:

    Parker- I’m so glad you are feeling a little better about your truck. Hopefully you can get this finished and behind you. You know I am not really sensitive about bad comments toward Tundra’s, but it does irritate me when there is a trouble maker among people who are trying to find answers to concerning questions. This is what I feel mjb was doing. If you look at his posts you will see why some of us got irritated.
    However, there is no animosity toward Ford’s, Chevy’s or GM, at least not on my part. Good luck with you truck.

  157. Denise says:

    Is it normal for my truck to be loud, like a diesel, until it warms up in the morning
    It usually calms down about a half mile into driving it
    I have seen some other posts in other forums saying the same thing so I think it is normal. But I did hear about piston slap could this be why it is loud
    I would think if that were it, it would go on longer then just the warm up period.

  158. Jason says:

    Denise – Yes, that’s normal, and yes it’s piston slap. I’m working on interviewing an expert, but the long and short of it is that piston slap isn’t actually a bad thing in newer motors. In the old days, piston slap lead to ring wear and cylinder scuffing, but new materials have eliminated those concerns.
    As for *why* the Tundra has piston slap, it’s a case of excess clearance between the cylinder wall and the rings. As the engine warms up, the cylinders expand slightly and the sound goes away. There’s nothing you need to do – Toyota designed the engines to operate in this manner.

  159. Jim Jackson says:


    Piston slap in a cold engine is from aluminum pistons that have excess clearance in the cylinder until they warm and expand to their normal size, The cylinder bore expands very little but the piston, which is much warmer in operation, expands a lot. I actually do not hear much piston noise in my 2010 Tundra, but on a cold day I typically give it 20-30 seconds to warm and then drive very slowly (light on the gas) for the first mile or so.

    Modern engines have very short piston skirts which are more prone to slap but produce less friction and are lighter in weight. The skirts are often coated to reduce friction.

    What I do hear in my Tundra is a roaring noise at startup which is the cooling fan. It take a while for the fan which has an internal clutch to realize that it is not needed on a cold morning and it then starts to freewheel. This is nothing unusual (my GMC did it also) but the Tundra has quite a fast idle speed making it quite loud initially even without driving.

  160. Justin 36 says:

    The dealer with the replacement truck realized he had something of value with the non-TSB VIN and decided to keep it.
    My dealer is being a real stand up guy and returning my money. I am going to cool my heels and sit on the sideline for a while.
    Looking around the site, I see that there was already a Justin making regular posts. I should have started my posts with a different name to prevent confusion. I’ll post as Justin 36 for now, that is about how long I owned a Tundra. Best wishes to all of you.

  161. Denise says:

    Jason/Him, thanks for the answer to the rough start when cold. I’ve been hearing that Tundras have forged aluminum pistons, if this is true are they stronger then cast pistons?

  162. Jason says:

    Denise – I’m not sure if the pistons are forged or not, but yes forged pistons are stronger (and typically lighter) than cast pistons. I believe the Tundra’s pistons are actually eutectic (cast with silcone). This would make them capable of withstanding supercharged engine pressures and help explain why they’re a little more expansive than a standard cast piston…but I haven’t been able to get confirmation on that. Hence, working on an interview. Jim or anyone else with knowledge of the Tundra’s pistons please feel free to kick in – I’m going off of 2nd hand info.

  163. mike says:

    Im pissed bout this nothing like paying a 525 a month payment for something that i only had for a little over a week driving. They have had it in the shop now for a month, does anyone think i can get maybe a free accessory or anything out of it? I mean they still dont know if i will have it tommorrow, they said they might have to take it all apart again and redue it. Not sure I want it if they have to take the engine apart for a second time.

  164. rick says:

    Mike, you should definitely be recieving a powertrain warrantee extension to 100k 6yrs at dealers or toyo’s expense, that is what i got. and i went through only about 25% the pain that you must be feeling since you’ve been out the truck for almost a month. and i am deciding on the dealers addtional offer of the platinum coverage plan, no deduct, for $735. i will prob buy it since they’ll even let me finance it zero interest for a year, so i’m gonna do that for a few other items as well. you should have no prob. my truck has been repaired for a week now and all seems just fine, except i’m trying to get the gas mileage up, can’t get it to be any more than 12.8 to 12.9. which in my opinion, sucks for a brand new truck with a six speed tranny and all this vvti bulls_it to make it more fuel effiecient. so i have to buy a k & n air filter to get two more mpg, that is on my to do list, and i guess when i put the nice fibo cap on it to make it look like an suv, i hope doing that also gets me a bit more, but by the time i throw in a few hundred pounds of crap i need to work, that’ll prob backfire on me. how the hell are they gonna meet future guidelines like what i hear the american guys are going to have to meet. Isn’t it something like, dont spend money on r &d unless you can get 40 miles per gallon or something out of these trucks?? my gas mileage is a good 10% less than the 14 city miles it is supposed to get. i havent even floored the engine once!!! toyota, WTF?? my interpretation of the city/ highway sticker gas milage info is that in general, if you drive some city, but you drive some highway, you should be able to get a mile or two above the city average. it just aint happenin!!!

  165. Will says:

    Hypereutectic piston, good for mild power adders (superchargers). It that what your talking about? That’s what’s installed.

    Rick, doesn’t the sticker say “Your actual mileage will vary depending on how you drive and maintain your vehicle” and “EPA Fuel Economy Estimate”? Maybe you should have looked at somthing more fuel efficient. Maybe a Yaris? You gotta take the good with bad. Maybe if you complain about that they will throw in a FREE FIBO COVER!

    Mike, don’t know what to tell ya? Sorry! Complaining won’t get ya no where. Unless you want a 100,000 mile warranty like Rick. Their whole thought process is that they already have your money and now your at their discretion. Maybe a little research next time, just a thought.

    Justin 36 did you really think a dealer would give up a Vehicle that is not effected by a recall that they could sell to some one they have already paid them? Once again, their whole thought process is that they already have your money and now your at their discretion.

    Is this the what the new generation does? Go out and buy somthing then complain if it breaks and the manufacture fixes it. Isn’t that what the warranty is there for? If they didn’t fix it, then I understand. So stop whining, you bought it and maybe you should have done better research. Everywhere you have looked since what November or December has been about either Healthcare or Toyota so you should have known that their was some issues. Atleast should have raised a flag to research it. So, research next time would help, and maybe its Toyota’s fault but it wasn’t like nobody knew. You bought it, DEAL WITH IT!

  166. Denise says:

    Mike-i don’t know where you live but in California if your vehicle has been in the shop for 30 days for the same thing, it is considered a lemon and you should talk to an attorney.
    Will-i don’t think anyone one is complaining unjustifiably in this forum. What is in the news is a lot of media hype because they don’t have anything else to talk about. Yes Toyota has made some mistakes, but next year it will be another business in the news. This whole thing will pass. I do agree that whining about something that is fixed is silly,but I think its just the frustration of having to deal with something we shouldn’t have to.

  167. Mickey says:

    As long as it has been 30 days straight in a row. Same in Florida and also if you had it in the shop 3x for the same thing. I’m not all that crazy about the lemon law anyway. Been through it and I still lost. GM wasn’t even there and arbitraitor seen what my truck issue was and stated it can be a safety hazard but still sided with GM. So I’m not impressed with lemon laws and the BBB period.

  168. Frenchy says:

    This whole Toyota fiasco that the government is trying to do to discredit Toyota reminds me of the events in 1662 in Salem, MA.

  169. Mickey says:

    Yes agree…. It depends on how people will look at it…. When you have another maker has an ECM with the unintended acceleration in the VW Passat and you don’t see it in the news. You had Ford Hybrids with a very simialr brake issue like the Prius and where was that in the news… It’s exactly the time and date and place you specified Frenchy…..

  170. Denise says:

    I definitely am not a sue happy type of person, but in Mikes case I think he would have a very good chance of winning a lemon law case. Here is the thing though, do not try to do it on your own
    Get an attorney. It is well worth it. I would not step foot in a court room without one.
    Just my two cents!

  171. Denise says:

    There iS one other thing Mike could do to solve this which would be more time consuming but is effective. I have a very good friend who had an issue with a local Mazda dealership over a crappy car he bought. After having it in the shop for over a dozen times he asked them to make it right and Mazda said no
    So, long story short, he picketed them for about a week. They were not happy and decided to compensate him with a new vehicle. The reason the owner gave was because my friend was costing him more then $25,000 in sales. Oh by the way, my friend also got two 50 yard line tickets to a 49er football game sitting in the Mazda owners seat.
    Mike, I hope all this advice your getting is helping! Lol

  172. Parker Davis says:

    Could you please post the TSB for the VVT-i or a link to it?
    Thank you

  173. mike says:

    Yea a warrenty is there to fix it, but should be done in a decent amount of time. And yes Toyota was in the news but to this day I have never heard about anything other then the accelerator problems. And yea lemon law is the same in pa, tommorrow is my 30th day so hope I get it back today.

  174. rick says:

    sorry for my rant on the gas mileage, but its a viable one. so if congress is going to make automakers build engines in five years from now in trucks like these or the fords, chevy’s and dodge and they are able to acheive 40 miles to the gallon or whatever they are talking, who in the hell is going to buy this truck when its time to sell it if the ycome through?? so the mileage at least landing in the range of the average city/ highway which IS 15 on the sticker, is very important to me. it’s freaken brand new!!! when it needs a tune up after a lot of miles, OK, we got a point, we’re getting bad gas mileage. do they do the test with the tailgate open and driving down a hill??? i’m doing very average driving in city and highway. i already threw in the towel when i bought it knowing that the smaller engine would yield 1 mph in city and highway better than the big v-8. to me, that was not significant enough of a difference to buy the smaller engine. if i bought a prius and it said i should get 40 mpg but i got 40, i dont think id give a s_it!! but when the numbers are so much lower, i have to state my position on it. Sorry if i’m whining Mike.

    then, i am hearing the shim on the gas pedal is only a partial fix???? We will all have to go back for the other part of the recall when they get it figured out. the dealer lead me to beleive i’m free and clear on the gas pedal thing, yet the dude on day two of tesimony says its only a partial fix. as someone else said earlier….A WHOLE LOTA DOUBLE TALK!!!

  175. herb says:

    So, its the media fault for the spot light on Toyota. So Mike, Densie and Rick your vehicles have not broken down due to the incorrect manufacturing on Toyota’s part but is because of the media? You stand behind Toyota one minute saying its the media’s fault then a second later is sue them and use the lemon law. Which is it, are they good or bad? As for the gas mileage Rick you need to let it break in, and if it is so important you should have thought of that before you bought it. They are a machine made by people and mistakes will be made and machines will fail, just a fact of life!

  176. mike says:

    Um I never said anything bout being the medias fault,if u read will had said bout doing research and what not and I was commenting on that. I’m aware its a defect and never said anything other then that. All I’m complaining bout is it should not take a month and counting to fix the problem.

  177. John F says:

    Mike, I agree with you on that point. There is no freekin’ way I would put up with that amount of time. Get a lawyer and get this resolved. With potential law suits that will come from this VVTi, pedal recall, floor mats,(a joke in my opinion), now the possibility that there is another pedal fix to come, I would get one early, like today or Monday, and see what recourse you may have. Good luck and don’t let tht dealer BS you about there work. It seems like they are incompetent.

  178. Denise says:

    Herb-i really hate when people read between the lines of something and get everything screwed up, LOL. Here is what I have been saying through out my posts, in short form. Toyota is an awesome company meaning their quality has always been great. Does that mean they wont have some mishaps from time to time, no it doesn’t. What I am saying to Mike about suing because of a lemon goes to say with all auto companies
    Sometimes you have to force their hand so you can bring closure to the issue. This has nothing to do with the media causing Toyota to produce a bad quality part. I’m not sure how you got that out of my posts unless you haven’t gone back and looked at what we have been saying previously. If anyone is going to rant at a persons posts please look at what has been said earlier.

  179. Mickey says:

    Ditto Denise. I couldn’t agree more. Herb you’re being sarcastic. Yes the media is hyping this up and they are wrong. Take a good look at the 2008 VW Passat and tell me why the media hasn’t said a thing about it. VW seeing what Toyota is going through recalled their 2008 Passat with a ECM problem which causes unintended acceleration. Point made about media. Can say the same with Ford Hybrids having a similar issue with the brakes as the Prius. Was that in the news? No again. Rest case on media. As for Mike I would pursue the lemon law in what he can get out of it. Herb it happens to all makers. I did it over an 06 Silverado and not to mention an 03 F-150. I didn’t have my trucks in the shop 30 days stright but taking the chevy in 11x to replace a dropping headliner gets a bit ridiculous. I tried to stay with the maker on both makers account. When it finally got out of hand I did what I needed for me and got out of both trucks. I wasn’t a Toyota fan but customer service at the other makers pushed me on. I for one don’t appreciate a factory rep accusing me of pulling down my headliner 3x and stating the dealer fix my truck 4x to please me. The guy knew he was lying from the get go. How about having the tech, the master tech, service adviser, Service manager, Laison, and GM come out and tell you we don’t know how to fix your F-150. What are you suppose to do. I went for the replacement trucks on both and still lost out. How about having the GM customer service ask me if I own another GM product. You think they can fix the truck that is there or worrying about damage control knowing they have a defect and trying their best to keep it under wraps. It happens Herb to the best of them. I still like GM but will never own another one because the way I was treated.

  180. Mickey says:

    Rick EPA does the computing of MPG’s on vehicles. They do it on an open track not like what we have to do in the city or highway. You have to consider weather, altitude, Terrain, 4×4 or 4×2, street tires vice A/T, and lifted or not. I have an 07 Crewmax with the 5.7 which I avg 20-22mpg. It does take dedication to it and learning all over on how to drive. Because of my job I’m an instructor on Smith’s Driving System. It’s an advance driving course which shows you how to improve your mpg’s, use less brakes etc. Some days I do only 55mph on the interstate which gets you better mpg’s. I travel alot for my job and one of my travels to West Palm Beach netted me 24.9 mpg on a 350 mile trip. I live in flat land florida so I can get this mpg. EPA estimates are never what you get. EPA estimat on my sticker stated 20mpg in 07. It doesn’t state how they got that avg but I know now how it’s done. I do use a AFE Stage II CAI and utilize Borla Pro XS complete duels.

  181. Billy says:

    So let me get this straight Denise, you stated Toyota is a great company due to their quality. Then you basically state that there will be mistakes made from time to time, I’m I on track here? But then it turns to sue this great company due to its quality or lack of for making a mistake once. Is that right. Is that the only problem you have had. So with that being said would you like for them to rush through this and then have to do it a second time. I personally wouldn’t say a word until after I got my vehicle back. There’s nothing like a pissed off mechanic putting your vehicle back together. Do you or who ever is having this done have a loaner vehicle from the dealership? Look at the bright side if you do have a loaner atleast your not putting miles on yours.

    Mickey, so if I have a full time 4×4 5.7l with all-terrain tires, I get 16-17 in town and 22 on the interstate, but if I try really hard I can get 24-25 MPG. I take that’s pretty good for a stock vehicle with under 12,000 miles on it..

    Sorry about your past experiences Mickey. Does Toyota know what is causing the accelerator issue? If you listen to everyone out their it seems like no body has any idea to include Toyota. How many vehicles is the VW recall affecting along with Ford? Is it all but 2 or 3 models they produce like Toyota? Is it in the range of multi-millions of vehicles? NO! So if you wanna whine and complain take it up with the media. Call them and tell them your so upset because they are not following the other manufactures recalls. If all of Toyota problems was due to the media and Goverment as others has said, then Toyota is as much to blame as others. They played the game! Its a foreign owned company, they did not have to stand in front of congress! They could have stopped it right there. So after complaining to the media call up Toyota headquarters and complain to them. They pushed this along as much as anyone else. So its not the media fault they cover news that people would watch or read. Hats off to them, they made their money and it appears that the public was interested. So that puts the public to blame also. Better start at A in the phone book and call everyone and complain to them to about how the media caused all this and they helped. Do you see how this works? The people influence what the media follows. If the people will not find it interesting the people will not care. So now where to everyone is to blame! But wait a minute, isn’t the only name on these vehicles TOYOTA, there’s only one to blame. He was the one crying in front of Congress. Mr. Toyoda.

  182. Jason says:

    mike – That’s pretty bad. I would definitely read up on the lemon law arbitration process. Rick is right in that you’d likely get an extension on your powertrain warranty if you requested it. I wouldn’t suggest hiring an attorney – your state laws protect you as well as an attorney can (if not better). Generally speaking, most attorneys will tell you you don’t need their help with this type of problem.

    rick – The gas mileage might take a while to come up – some trucks need 2-3k miles before they “break in.” It could also be lower because of the cold:


  183. Jason says:

    Billy – You’ve offered some sage advice: “There’s nothing like a pissed off mechanic putting your vehicle back together.” Everyone would be wise to consider that point when working with their local dealer.
    To be fair, Toyota deserves a lot of blame in this mess for the poor way they’ve handled this issue, the fact they tried to “negotiate” out of the recall last year, and the design issues with the sticky pedals and the floor mats. However, there’s no denying this issue is overblown by the media. There’s some argument that Toyota gets all this attention because they’ve been so squeaky clean for so long, but I don’t know. I think a little common sense on behalf of the L.A. Times, ABC, and others would have gone a long way…but it is what it is.

  184. Denise says:

    Billy- its funny I haven’t seen your name until now. Why don’t you start at the beginning along with Herb. I already had my truck fixed and its fine

    If a pissed off mechanic can’t keep his temper under control there is a problem. Are they really that immature? Give them more credit then that. At least my mechanic was professional. However, this is exactly what I am talking about. If you can not resolve an issue in a reasonable amount of time it has to be ended some how. How much time is it before you do take control, a month two, three oh wait maybe a year. It has nothing to do with Toyota’s overall quality, but once in a while you get a, lets say pissed off mechanic, that keeps f…ing up. Then its time to take it to another level. Sorry that’s hard for you to understand. Hopefully you will never have to deal with it. Toyota’s has a history of quality, that’s why I purchased one. But there is always that one lemon.

  185. Mickey says:

    Billy what part of the LA Slime you come from???? Only you want to protect the media… Now that’s a good one. You of all people know the media has an agenda and will do what ever it takes to get what they want. Since you want to defend them so bad how about you going there and teach them how to do investigative reporting? Finding the real facts instead of just throwing something out there and hope that it goes somewhere. Billy as for VW it takes one vehicle to have a crash with this is enough period. That’s according to your reporters there at LA SLimes. As for Ford it was all Hybrids which fell to 4 models period. You want to defend the condeming of Toyota while sweep the others under the rug. That’s your problem guy. You need to make an appointment to see Dr. Phil.

  186. Denise says:

    Thanks Mickey!

  187. herb says:

    I agree with what Billy and Jason said. As for mechanics, as was said before you need to do research. As for the media Mickey you are feeding their cause. Are you that slow to see, if you forget about them and ignore it eventually it will go away. Why the concern for other manufactures and their problems? Do I sense jealousy? I don’t believe he was condemning Toyota. Denise if its a Lemon then why all the concern, wait it isn’t even your problem. Billy, interesting on mpg. You have not done anything your truck?

  188. Denise says:

    Herb- you seem like an angry fellow who doesn’t”t like opinions by others. Out of curiousity, do you own a Tundra. Well regardless of whether you do or don’t, my opinion on the lemon law does come from experience. I did get my truck back in good shape, thankfully. Hopefully the others in this forum that are having issues will as well. But if they don’t the lemon law is an option that I would explore, especially after a month of being in the shop with no end in sight. Again I would like Herb to let us all know what he would do after a month of being without a new truck! Maybe he could call the media!

  189. rick says:

    jason, thanks for the info on gas mileage, i’ll check it out. also, same to you Mikey, a lot of good info. i will continue to watch it and hopefully i can get it to start climbing. thanks.

  190. Frenchy says:

    Denise, all very good points. Bravo!!!

  191. herb says:

    Denise how is this my fault or problem. I honestly can’t say what I would do if my vehicle was in repair for a month. Oh wait yes I can. See someone hit my truck and I was a month and half with it. I dealt with it. I didn’t whine or complain. I was in a rental vehicle and would stop by and just check on it once a week. They would even call and say we have a question as to if you approve of this could you take a look. Let them do their job. You bought it, they are just doing what they get paid to do. Fix them. I’m proud to say I don’t own a Toyota. I thought long and hard about it and this site was instrumental on the decision I made. In the 9 new vehicles I have purchased since 1993 I have not had a issue that even made me think of the lemon law. Maybe its luck or the fact I research. Whiners like you also influenced my decision. I have never seen so many. Look at my MPG, they had my truck for a month, the media is picking on us, let’s sue the dealer of the so called BEST TRUCK MADE. So you do what ever suits you. I will just sit on the side line and lmao!!

  192. Denise says:

    Herb- your an odd one alright. You probably had issues in school with attention, didn’t you?. Why don’t you go to the beginning and read my posts. Then you will get it,maybe. Having your car hit is hardly like having a problem with the motor. You are a very immature person Herb and you really have no business in this forum if you don’t have a Tundra or can’t play nice. All you have wanted to do is insult Why would you want to be blogging here? You just want to be an a..hole. You sound a lot like MJB did in his posts. Are you related? You are actually the one who sounds jealous. When you put people down for their own opinions that is a lack of education my friend and that’s the way you are looking right now. What’s wrong are you having problems with your vehicle and have to spread your gloomy attitude around?

  193. herb says:

    Grow up dumbise. There that is immature you happy now! Yhea working with a wreaked car is A LOT easier than a engine. LOL that’s sarcasm

  194. herb says:

    Its been fun but this is childish!!! Damn you brought me to your level!

  195. Denise says:

    Herb you’ve just proven my point.!

  196. Billy says:

    Denise that was funny! Good job.

  197. Billy says:

    Herb you can’t argue with ignorance. That’s all they know so its right to them. Took you long enough to figure it out!

  198. Frenchy says:

    Thanks for being so brief b&h. At least we don’t have to suffer through more of your drawn out BS.
    Stupid is as stupid does, and you to prove that point perfectly.
    Don’t you have some Chevy or Ford blog you can go and brag about your POS?

  199. Billy says:

    Here’s one for you. Its so good you couldn’t make it up. “Because of my job I’m an instructor on Smith’s Driving System. It’s an advance driving course which shows you how to improve your mpg’s, use less brakes etc.” How does a being a security guard qualify you for a driving school instructor? Teaching the pit maneuver for a skate boarder, LMAO!!!! How do you do that on a segway???

    Hey Frenchy you know you only need to push that button once right. Maybe they need to explain it a little better. That makes you real smart!! That makes you real smart!! Double take just for you! See things like that Frenchy is priceless! You guys are the best!

  200. Frenchy says:

    Thanks for proving me right b. SIASD.
    Is that a double take ,really, really.
    I wonder why you are on this post?
    Trying to show the world what a real JA sounds like??
    Mission accomplished, carry on.

  201. Mickey says:

    First thing Herb I beleive what is right for one is right for another. I believe in fair play which you can see if you’re not blind what has happen and is still happening. Ignore it and let it go away. Well Herb I’m not a quitter, maybe you are and that’s the reason behind letting the media slide in their reporting. Far from being jealous and of what. I’m not going back to what I had. Nothing to be jealous of. I feel the opposite that others are jealous of Toyota and that’s why they are under the gun and no one else is talked about in the media. If the great media was intrested in saving lives like LA Times stated then the VW thing would be there too.

    Herb you missed Denise’s point. The idea of being without your truck when it was in a crash differ from when your truck is in the shop to be fix on an issue. A big difference in that and the way someone would feel about that. That has nothing to do about whining. Herb we will see ohh wait a minute you won’t tell us if you had an issue and had to wait 30 days anyway. Being the fact you don’t own a Toyota and come here to comment on others who do state some issues they are having only for you to call them whiners just made your case. Now are you that slow or should I spell it for you T-R-O-L-L. BTW look in the mirror when you laugh so you can see everyone laughing at you. Kodak moment there…..

    BTW Denise you did bring him to your level….. He had to step up…….

    Okay Billy boy I work for an armored car company…. Hence the 10,000lb trucks and up. If you knew anything about Smith Driving System you would know the history behind it and what truckers and trucker companies use this.
    While you speaking there Billy you were taught not to speak with your mouth full Now you can take the shoe out. How does leather taste? You need alittle tabasco with that?

  202. Denise says:

    Frenchy- don’t even acknowledge either of those idiots anymore(Billy and herb). They obviously don’t get much attention in their lives. They sound lonely. Kind of like animals that are secluded from the rest of the world. They don’t have any social skills. We are classier then that.

  203. Jim Jackson says:

    I brought my Tundra in for the TSB fix this morning. They gave me a rental and were polite, but very quiet.

    Wish my luck?

  204. Jim Jackson says:


    I was curious why you were hearing piston slap and I was not so I checked it out on a cold morning and there is noise in my truck but not until 2200-2500rpm. Years ago I developed a habit of driving conservatively with a cold engine for the first mile or two and with my Tundra I keep under 2000rpm and I don’t get any appreciable noise.

    There is data to suggest that virtually all engine wear occurs when the engine is cold so this technique can potentially add life to the engine. I ran an auto machine shop some years ago and have seen a lot of pistons and cylinders including some of my own cars after many miles and it does make a difference.

  205. Frenchy says:

    Your right Denise, I just get pissed when some idiot with nothing more than a uninformed and uneducated opinion has to show his stupidity on the blog.
    I with therefore stop this childish banter with both of this DA.

    Jim, if your techs are as good as mine and as good as they should be than I would not worry. I have put over 1100 miles on since mt TSB work and it runs perfectly.

    Jason, I might have missed it, but whats up with your truck??

  206. Denise says:

    Jim thanks for the info. I have been doing exacly what you said since I purchased my truck. I just couldn’t figure out why it sounded so rough the first 5 minutes after I first started it in the morning. After Jason told me it was normal for these engines I stopped worrying about it. But I’m still going to baby it so it will be in good shape for a long time.

  207. rick says:

    good luck jim, did you get any indication they would extend your PT warrantee? is there anyone else who had the repair done that didnt reply back?? what about the guy getting a replacement but the dealer backed out on it since they had one precious truck to sell without the effected vin.

  208. Jason says:

    Frenchy – My truck is gone man – I sold it a couple of years ago before going on a world travel adventure and moving to Manhattan.

  209. Mickey says:

    Under the big lights eh Jason…….

  210. Mickey says:

    Denise and Frenchy it’s hard to deal with the likes of Billy and Herb or (Burt and Ernie) since they like each other so much. I don’t see where they state the whine issue when everyone here has a legitimate issue in this VVTI TSB. It’s good to let out a little steam and regroup. What the comical duo won’t state to you is that you go on other forums like Silverado, F-150, and Ram they do the same thing that is done here. I’ve visited just to read but not comment. They have similar issues and by reading most posts, yes, they hate the Tundra because it scares them in what Toyota has done in what now 10 years of making a full size truck. Compared to what over 100 years for the others. Well it’s not easy dealing with the new kid on the block when the new kid had more towing power and a stronger engine that they have. It’s hard to swallow so to ease the pain you go to a Tundra Forum and find faults, put them down, and ridicule anyone on there just to satify themselves. You have to remember they aren’t satisfied in what they got. Hence, that’s why they are here.

  211. DJ says:

    Hopefully my last update. I got my truck back 2 weeks ago from the TSB fix and have put ~800 miles on it with no issue. I can’t say enough about the local support that I got the dealer that sold me the truck and the one that did the repair. They did a nice job in working with Toyota to honor the extended warranty (but still do not have it in writing – expect to have that this week) and also eased my pain from the 3 week fix, by installing a bed liner at no charge. I also have registered the truck on the Toyota site and like that all the work that they did is automatically loaded service tab with the detailed info.

    I love this truck! Can’t wait to start trailer my boat with it in the spring. On a side note, I did order / install a new soft tonneau cover (Truxedo Lo Pro QT) and it is great… very easy to install, looks great and stays tight. Bought it from Autoanything.com and got a good deal – call the # that they give and see what kind of deal you can get – I got ~12% off what they have on the website.

    Good luck to everyone with their Tundra’s

  212. Frenchy says:

    Mickey, right on all points. Good job!

  213. rick says:

    Great DJ, i’ll have to check out that part about registeing your truck online with toyota. Finally got a buyer for my old F-150, so i can finally order my Leer truck cap, get the bedliner sprayed in and hopefully have enough left for a gps. yep, always an ahole or two in the bunch….

  214. Jason says:

    Mickey – Kind of. Good place to be for my “real” job.

    DJ – It’s nice to read a comment from a genuinely happy owner. Glad to hear you liked AutoAnything.com – we send them a ton of business because they’ve always been good to everyone we’ve sent them (well, almost everyone – nobody is perfect).

  215. Frenchy says:

    Rick, I don’t know what kind of bedliner you are going to have sprayed, But I have had Armorthane liners in my last 2 trucks and the stuff is unbelieveable. I had a Rhino liner in another truck and had issues with liner getting damaged. Little chunks came out and I had to have a repair done. Check out the Amorthane website and see what you think. Congrats on selling your Ford. I have a Leer topper on mine along with a Garmin GPS. A handy little tool when traveling to Cleveland to see or son and family, especially going through Chicago.

  216. Denise says:

    Rick-i know you have been concerned about your gas mileage. I have been checking mine and I am getting exactly 15 MPG city driving. That is after the VVT-i fix. I’m not really sure about the MPG on the highway. Have you made any changes in your truck as far as the filter? I’m not really that knowledgeable about these things but I was curious if it was any better.

  217. rick says:

    Frenchy, thanks for the info. just when i thought i was sharing stupid info that nobody prob gives a s_it about, i end up with really good info i didnt even expect to get back!!! i actually have an appointment to get the truck done with Rhino linings of Dupage. i never heard of the product you are talking about. the only one in my area that i know of is Line-X. but they were more money and for some reason the rhino liner seemed to capture my attention more. that said, there is a Ziebart guy in the area doing the rhino liners, but i just got the feeling they did them once and a while while the rhino liner place seems to do like 20 a week and they are at $399.99 plus tax. others are about $430 plus tax. thats how i based my decision (on how many they do, therfore have a lot of experience) but i will check into the other. so are you from wisconsin?? im outside of chicago in the NW burbs.

    I picked the Leer top because along the botttom edge of it the cap is fiberglass without an added trim painted the same color, unlike the ARE cap that has that which i was not crazy about. The ARE has a cleaner looking back lift hatch, but i’d rather have the cleaner look up and down the sides of the truck.
    Denise, one thing i have to admit, is everytime i go and fill up, i forget to record the miles, so all my comments are going off of the average mileage from the readout by the clock. but i still have not made it to 13 mpg yet. and i’m drivin this thing like an old grandma!!! trying to get it to go up.

  218. Frenchy says:

    rick, I had bought the LEER 100R for my Black ’08 Tundra, but when I traded it in on the SIlver Sky Dbl cab I sent it back to LEER and they repainted it for $400.00. I thought that was a better option than having some local body shop paint it. I figured they would do it right and stand behind their work.

  219. Mickey says:

    Frenchy good to hear. It seems reasonable to me the price of painting it. Personally I do too many last minute things to use my bed of the truck so I use Extang Black Max soft tonneau cover. In 2 minutes it’s rolled up and out of the way. My truck is garage kept so I don’t need a lock for the bed. I did do something most won’t do. I used Herculiner on my bed and did it myself 1 month after I bought it in July 07. Still going strong.

    Rick to me it’s not the amount they did I watch the prep. The prep is the key. If you don’t prep it right you will have chunks come off because it didn’t adhere to the paint. I did my last 3 trucks myself. I throw alot of lumber in the bed and tie strap it in. Still has a gloss balck look and hasn’t faded. BTW the cost was only $68 for the kit and another $10 for Acetone. Wish you luck in what ever liner you use. I hear all of them are great and at the same time you have a couple on all of them that failed. Prep is the key.

  220. Mickey says:

    Denise the filter can be changed to several different types as well as just taking the charcoal filter out. You have K&N, Volant, TRD, and AFE. I have an AFE Stage II with a lifetime air filter that I just wash in mild detergent and air dry. No oil needed for the Stage II. It only increase my mpg’s by 1.5mph. So the cost for one and what you save will take years to pay for itself. In winter it doesn’t work as good due to the winter fuel mix which brings down mpg’s. But I avg 20 – 22mpg with sometimes up over 24mpg. In winter I struggle to stay above 20mpg. It does take dedication in watching how you drive.

  221. rick says:

    cool guys, thanks for all the info. i checked into the amorothane and one guy said he hasnt been foing much of it so his material was old so he could not help me, however, he said out of the rhino and the line-x, he said the line-x was better in his opinion. so i called that guy back and they are around $465 or so, so i haev to run over there and see it. the other Amorothane guy is way north or me so i dont think i’m going to call him. good idea on the truck cap.

  222. bspurlo says:

    I have had the same check engine light problem, bought the truck on saturday and had to take it back on monday its now thursday. Drove by the dealership last night and the truck has’nt moved, does anyone know how long the repairs should take. I mean I know thier swamped but 4 days and not so much as a phone call is a little upsetting.

  223. Jim Jackson says:


    I brought my truck in for the TSB repair on Monday and was told it would take 2 days. On Tuesday they said it would take until Wednesday. On Wednesday they said they needed a couple of O rings that they did not have and it would be ready on Thursday. I too did a drive by and they really were working on my truck.

    This is a big job and I did have them order the parts in advance. They could be waiting for parts for yours??

  224. Jason says:

    bspurlo – I agree with Jim. I think they’re waiting for parts. As for why they haven’t called you, I think that stinks. I know that service departments across the country are swamped right now, but the salesperson should be able to check on things for you and call.

  225. Denise says:

    Bspurlo- it took 7 days to fix my truck. The good news is I haven’t had any issues with it since I got it back. I have put about 1000 miles on it since the fix.
    Jason- I have another question. I am hearing a light thump once in awhile after I come to a complete stop and then start to take off. That’s when it happens. What could this be? I am wondering if it has to do with the brakes adjusting when there is a difference in tire rotation. I don’t know just guessing.

  226. rick says:

    b spurlo,

    i would suggest and based on me experience that you get the truck back until the have the parts unless your prepared to possibly be without it for the entire time the parts are coming in. my parts took 2.5 weeks for everything to arrive, then three days for the repair. on the other side though, if your really pissed off and want to let the truck sit there, some people have gone that way in case the fix ends up being a prob and you have to look at the lemon law req.s the truck will not get damaged in any way from the cel light coming on for this prob. while driving it until the parts come in. i had to call them at 1.5 weeks of not hearing anything, then at two weeks. it is what it is.

  227. Jim Jackson says:

    It only took 3 days to get the parts for my TSB repair, and a little over 3 days to complete the job (they did the accelerator also). The time it takes to get parts for something like this probably varies depending on demand and location of the dealer, etc.

  228. bspurlo says:

    I think everyone is getting really fired up, and possibly taking things that are being written out of context. I’m looking for other people like me who have had the same problems and can give some insight into what comes next. I do have to say I am not real happy having paid $36000 for a new vehicle and three days later they have to tear the engine apart to fix it. I haven’t decided what action I plan on taking but the dealership has lied three ways from Sunday about everything which makes me not want to deal with them or Toyota. I do expect them to put an extended warranty on the vehicle, at a minimum for all the misleading and deceitful things they’ve put my wife and I through. I thank everyone for the comments it helps to understand whats going on cause the dealership dang sure isn’t telling me anything.

  229. Mickey says:

    Denise to me it sounds like your diff slap. The only other thing I can think of off hand is ball joints. Now Ball joints haven’t been an issue where as the diff Toyota had a few issues with that. Mostly the ones who commented on that had a 4×4.

  230. Mickey says:

    bspurlo just take the TSB to the dealer that Jason posted here. They have no answer for that but just do the job to fix it. If you feel uncomfortable in them doing the fix please see another dealer to see how they react to it. We do have alot of dealers out there and that goes for all makers that don’t really care for nothing but the sale. Then you have other dealers going out of their way to help you.

  231. Greg says:

    We also have a lot of owners who don’t know what they are talking about! Denise you may want to ask certain people for something to prove what thay are saying. Some people to talk out of their a!$ and can’t back it up. All I’m saying is take some comments with a grain of salt from some individuals.

  232. Denise says:

    Mickey thanks for letting me know about the diff slap. I think there is another problem child in this forum.

    Greg- I’m not sure what you are wanting to say to me here. I have had alot of great information come out of this forum. Is there something you are unhappy about that was said earlier?

  233. Greg says:

    Denise, I totally understand that there is a lot of great info. All I was saying is sometimes you need some to backup what they are saying. People need credibility. See someone who will leave nameless was saying that Toyota’s come with Delco radios made by GM. I never heard of this and asked for where they got this info and if they could share. Well they keep trying to change the subject and spinning the story. I see you apperently have not had good luck with your truck. I’m sorry and wish you luck.

  234. Denise says:

    Greg- thank you for your concern. You seem like a nice guy. The truth is I did have the VVT-i issue. My dealership took care of that for me and I have had my truck back for about a month now with no issues. I have had a Tacoma that I loved it. I also have a Honda Accord that has been equally great. My issues have never been with Toyota, I have had issues with Ford, Dodge and Mazda along time ago. However, because of the VVT-i, I did get a little upset and questioned the company. Through this forum I was able to talk with my service department with correct terminalogy and knowledge of the situation. When you are a women sometimes you aren’t explained things by the maintenance people who work on your products because, I think, they just don’t think women give a s…. about the fix, just the end result. LOL. I have been restored confidence in Toyota and think that the media has played a big part in all of their issues to some degree. Not that Toyota didn’t screw up, but the media has been a little unfair with all the extra attention. I don’t know about the radio thing you talked about. I have never seen anything about that on this forum, but I’m sure you have your reasons for feeling the way you do and I respect that, but please don’t generalize everyone on this forum because they give an opinion. What is right for one isn’t always for the other. I think we all know that.

  235. Jim Jackson says:

    I got my 4.6 Tundra back after the TSB VVTi repair on Thursday. It took a little over 3 days and they did the accelerator thing also. It now shifts so much better! It would downshift all the time before and even going 70mph on cruise it would downshift to 4th on many hills. Now it stays in 6th most of the time and usually only goes into 5th for the same hill.

    As to economy I got 17.5 on the first tank (the light came on half way through) and got 16.2-16.8mpg on the next 8 tanks. I just filled it today and got 19.8!

    If there is anyone out there not doing this repair because they are afraid of doing more harm than good I think you are making a big mistake. You might think your truck is running OK but if the cam timing is stuck (retarded I think) you are missing a lot of performance based on my experience. Until you get it fixed you may not realize how great an effect it has.

  236. Will says:

    Denise what kinda of issue did you have with other brands?

  237. Denise says:

    Will-well where do I start. My Mazda was actually purchased used and it had a lot of issues, starting with oil leaking continuously. It only had 60,000 miles but didn’t last to 90,000 before I sold it. I had a Ford Explorer that had engine noises and eventually had a blown head gasket. The Dodge I had was just junkie. The door handles fell off and the paint peeled when it was brand new. It was like the roof started bubbling up and just kept going from there. I have also had issues with Nissan too but that was more with the maintenance department then the vehicle. I have really condensed the issues with the Ford Explorer but we would be here all night if I listed everything wrong with it. I also had a close friend have an issue with a Mazda which the dealer eventually took back and gave him a total refund. I have had many new vehicles over the years and Toyota is one of the more reliable ones. I really like the way Ford’s Trucks look but I just don’t trust the company right now. I wish I did.

  238. rick says:

    Jim, thats the mileage i’m looking for, wow! i have just under 1500 miles on the truck and the average is finally creeping over 13 mpg. at 13.3 currently. i couldnt be babying the accelerator much more. other than at the end of winter…does anyone know about when they convert back to summer blend gas.

  239. Will says:

    I think its alittle premature to say Toyota is better than the other brands you have owned Denise. You had your Toyota for two days and the check engine light came on resulting in some extensive maintenance. The piston slap, and now the noise from what the brakes or maybe dif. So all this and you have what 5000 miles if that and owned it for how long a couple months? How any others did you have to have extensive maintenance two days after buying? A broken door handle is pretty small compared to engine overhaul. That’s your view though and your paying for it so as long as your happy. If the first month indicates what’s to follow I would be concerned.

    Rick they convert back to it in the summer. LOL I don’t know.

  240. Denise says:

    Will- My explorer had major problems from day one. I took it back to maintenance for different engine issues at least 20 times in the 3 years I had it. One of which the Ford service department could never fix. It might not be a big deal for you to have paint peeling from day one and knobs falling off, but for me it was a big deal when I had my Dodge. Not only that there was a cable that snapped everytime I made a left turn on that vehicle. I can’t remember the name of the cable but it had to do with the steering wheel. Im sure you and others here know the name of it. Will, I am a busy person and don’t like to continually take vehicles I drive in for maintenance and all 3 of the vehicles I wrote about were in constantly. I have had a Camry and Tacoma and never had any issues with it. I also have had a Honda I have never had any issues with. It sounds like some of the people that write in this forum want to try and bring doubts about Toyota down on the rest of us. I had the VVT-i issue which was fixed. With myself it is all in how the service department deals with the issue and also the company I have purchased from. Ford, Dodge and Mazda would not acknowledge there was even an issue with there product. Only time will tell with Toyota but I have a feeling it will be fine. I am basing this on my own experiences with them. Oh by the way the Nissan issue I had also was because of the maintenance departmant 100%. Therefore I have bad feelings toward them but I actually would attempt another Nissan only because my family has had 2 of them and never any issues. I can not say the same for Ford, Dodge, Mazda and Chevy. LOL

  241. Mickey says:

    Watch it Denise, Will won’t like that your Ford has many issues too. Will doesn’t like Toyota’s. Denise Greg is talking about me. I put Delco and GM together. Delco is GM’s biggest supplier. Delco has always been a name with GM. Yes Greg. They along with Body by Fisher. A name known to be GM. Anything else Greg? Your dislike for this website’s product does show.

  242. Denise says:

    Mickey- is there a Ford blog I can go on to trash the people who want to talk about their precious trucks? I don’t understand why these idiots come onto this site to be JA’s. It’s very low class and immature. Thanks for the heads up Mickey.

  243. Frenchy says:

    The problem with these idiots is that they can’t stand dealing with their own problems and have to lash out at others to try and make them feel better. They babble on with no real point, speak without thinking, and then vanish under the rock they came from. They, like a case of bad gas, will pass.

  244. sab says:

    Just following up. The 2010 tundra I bought in January with the VVTi issue is still at the dealership. It is apparently now “fixed”- I was notified of this after the vehicle was inoperable for 33-34 days (depending on how you define it). I’ve contacted a lemon law lawyer, but haven’t heard anything back from them. The regional toyo folks are allegedly working out a deal, “no promises” I’m told. The 1-800 number robots tell me “our primary concern was fixing your truck, it has been detailed by the dealer at no cost to you and it is now ready to be picked up by you; our obligation is fullfilled”… not even the offer of an extended warranty???? I guess Toyota’s policy is to take no action unless they are sued. Great way to treat a customer; my comment to the lady at the 1-800 number was basically,

    “Let me get this straight: I bought a new truck that went into the shop a few days after I bought, where it has remained inoperable for 33 days, and now you are telling me that all you are offering me for compensation is some tire foam, a car wash, and the keys back? Are you kidding me?”

    She wasn’t amused. I laughed. Toyota has some serious problems, in my experience. My truck is still at the dealership, I figured I would just leave it there until I heard about the outcome of the aforementioned “deal”- which may simply be a complimentary oil change. In this economy, do these idiots think that I have nothing better to do with my $25K than to park a truck on a lift at a service garage (wait a second, maybe it hasn’t been such a bad idea). Ha ha.

    TOYOTA: Get your sh*t together.

  245. Mickey says:

    Denise all I did was google F-150 club or F-150 forum. If I’m bored I go to read about info on that particular forum. I haven’t joined a Ford forum. Even though I owned 3 Fords. I don’t go to another forum to give them crap about there product. I was in a Silverado forum and they wouldn’t allow you to put down the Silverado. Even when I put the troubles I had they deleted the post and gave me a warning. Nothing like the camaro club I was in. They discussed everything. I even joined a Titan club and on my second post I was banned when asked what type of truck I owned. So they do the same I guess over there as well as the Tundra clubs but it’s different here. The difference here and say like Tundratalk.net and others like that it’s mostly Tundra owners discussing everything. Here you get alot of let’s say trolls because The other websites don’t tolerate people acting like what you stated. This website is open for discussion both pros and cons. That’s what makes Jason website unique. Jason puts out info about the Tundra and it’s open for debate. You have a guy here named Justin who is an avid Ford fan but most of his posts are bias enough. He’s been on here for a couple of years also. It’s always good to gather all info you can on what rivals feel about your truck. It maybe B/S and it maybe good. Just like mention before you have to take it with a grain of salt. What I can say which most can’t I owned an 98 Silverado, 03 F-150, 06 Silverado, and now 07 Tundra. I owned the 98 for 1 day short of 5 years, the 03 for 3 years, 06 for 18 months. Now the Tundra going on 3 years. I can say how all 3 are and how the dealership treated me. I have all maintenance done at the dealership except for the 98. Because of my travels for the Navy and where I work now I put high mileage on all vehicles. I’m currently over 80,000 miles on my Tundra. I’ve been on this website since August 07. Jason featured my truck twice. Once in 3/9/08 in Mickey’s traveling crew https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2008/03/09/mickeys-traveling-tundra-crew/
    the other was on 11/12/08 when I got That Sucks award when I hit a 6 point buck in West Virginia mountians on I-77. Just look in featured vehicles and you can see the damage. So unless Denise you want info on ford forums I wouldn’t bother.

    Frenchy well put…..

  246. bspurlo says:

    Well kutos to Toyota they gave us an extended warranty as a sign of good faith. We fought with the dealership long enough that they agreed to a 30k mile service contract. We had to explain to them that it wasn’t about free oil changes it was about having a Toyota tech inspecting the vehicle at each oil change for leaks and things of that nature. I still have not received my truck back from the dealership but I do feel like Toyota and the Dealership finally stepped up to make right what was easily an avoidable situation if they had just been honest with us up front. I do believe Toyota is a good company, their just in a bad spot right now, and so are allot of others these days.

  247. Greg says:

    Mickey, did you find it? Still waiting on the fact that Toyota uses Delco parts. We know Delco is a GM supplier. As is Deilphi. But could they be one as in the same? Will didn’t do anything but ask a question.

  248. Denise says:

    SAB- I would stay on the Lemon Law Attorney and make sure you have a case. It sounds to me like it is more the dealer then Toyota as a company. I think dealerships have more control then we think. I have spoken to my attorney about this exact thing and it is considered a lemon if it is in the shop for more then 30 days. Sorry you are having such a time with this. I hope it is resolved for you soon. Good Luck!

  249. Denise says:

    Greg- in the 90’s the New York Times printed several articles about Delco and Toyota. You should do some research. I believe it was struts at first. What’s the big deal?

  250. Greg says:

    Denise. The issue was someone said that “Toyota has the same to go at GM for their junk Delco radio’s put in Toyota’s”. You are right, Delphi Delco Electronics and Toyota teamed up on September 27, 2002. Those radios are as much Toyota as GM! So someone who we leave nameless was bashing Toyota and didn’t even know it. That doesn’t seem right, does it. Funny but seems very wrong!

  251. Denise says:

    Greg- I’m not sure why you are so preoccupied with radios but I do know this
    In 1990 Toyota’s did buy Delco parts as a type of merge with GM but Delco made them and supplied them, Toyota didn’t make them. Gee I wonder if GM supplied the accelerator pedal for Toyota. I think Toyota should stop trying to help out these American companies and just go back to the way they made parts before.

  252. greg says:

    Denise, I can’t use crayons here so work with me. Delphi Delco Electronics and Toyota teamed up on September 27, 2002. Forget about the 90’s and look at 00’s. Someone was bragging about toyota and said well GM sold junky Delco radios to Toyota for their vehicles. You following. So I was letting him save face by busting his own bubble. Delco and Toyota worked together to make that junk. Toyota is taking GM down with them. Toyota isn’t helping American automakers but hindering them. They need to stop selling their defective parts to others.

    So did GM make the accelerators for Toyota? Going down the road of someone else I see.

    Runaway rescue! Jim Sikes was driving his prius on interstate 8 in California near San Diego. He call 911 because he could not stop his vehicle. CHP officer Todd Neibert caught up to Mr. Sikes and saw the brake lights on and could smell the brakes burning. Thanks to this CHP they where able to stop the vehicle. Mr. Sikes took his vehicle to his Toyota dealership prior to this for the recall and they said that is was fine. The good news is no one got hurt and now they have the Prius impounded to investigate it. Hopefully they will find out what is causing this. That was on CBS this morning!

    Denise you are making a assumption without a valid source. What your are saying that the previous vehicles you have had have down. But have they been brand new and failed within days of purchase requiring this extent of maintenance? If they have then you must really have some bad luck. I find it hard to believe if they did. I have not said one thing about Toyota but the thought process of making your assumptions. I don’t care about Toyota, Ford or GM. I find it alarming how individual of this site come to conclusions.

    Sab glad to see your anther satisfied customer. If you ever see Mainehunter ask him why he now drives a Nissan.

  253. Parker Davis says:

    What the ????? For a blog dedicated to VVTi problems there is sure a lost of useless crap going back and forth. It would be a helpful blog if contributors would stick to the subject rather than needing to bash each other and arguing whether the left hand tuning knob of the 1992 Camry was manufactured by someone who once owned a GM vehicle that was painted green.
    Stick to the subject and we will all be happier. If you want to piss on each other, give one another your email addresses and you can exchange hateful emails all day long.
    More on topic – 2010 Tundra 5.7L (900 miles) engine light came on about a week ago, then went off before getting in to dealer. Dealer said drive it and see what happens in couple of weeks (after all, still 59,000 miles of warranty). No more engine light, but sometimes hesitation on acceleration accompanied by annoying loud engine growl on acceleration. No more light – otherwise fine. Will keep my eye on it and be back at dealer if unhappy.

  254. Denise says:

    Greg – I don’t ever make assumptions, but I do use research as a tool in my line of work. Sometimes you have to go back a little father then where you found your fact to support your case, to get the correct answer. The year was 1990 when GM made a deal with Toyota’. By the way you don’t have to be a smart a…. Why do you even care if you dislike Toyota’s and GM? You are not making sense. I think you just have to have the last word and that’s fine with me. Go ahcad respond back and get it over with.
    Parker- I agree with you but when there are a bunch of jerks interrupting the answers with there comments it is everyone’s duty on this site, who are Toyota owners, to set them straight. Except some of them just want to argue just to get in the last word. LOL, sorry that it is bothersome to you. Hey have a great day!

  255. Mickey says:

    Greg just for you:


    MAY 1, 2007


    In 1995 AC-Delco becomes ACDELCO, written out as one word. The TRI-LOGO is eliminated and all advertising now shows the written: ACDELCO.

    In 2002 a major change was made in the GM Parts Distribution Program known as ACDELCO. For several years the “Distributor” had been encouraged to support the ACDELCO program by elimination of competitive products. Drop the Monroe Shocks and only sell Delco, drop the Wagner Brake line and only sell Delco, etc. By doing this the more lines of products the Distributor sold, the larger discount he would receive on his total volume. And for those WD’s who didn’t think they could put all their “eggs” in one basket, ACDELCO started termination of the smaller Distributors. It started with those less than $500,000 annual volume. This eliminated all the Radiator, Speedometer and Radio accounts and other small accounts. They then went to $1,000,000, then to $2,000,000. When they were finished there were only 97 Distributors nationally.

    These customers were now called: DDG’s or Dedicated Distribution Groups.

    They get maximum discounts on all lines, advertising support, field training at their place of business and an inventory return program that is more effective in the parts distribution business.

    Who does the warranty repair for the GM Car Dealer on Radiators, Radios and Speedometers? It can get very complicated. Most are done by product exchange thru the dealer. The dealer handles the warranty credits for parts and labor thru GM Parts. The parts are then scraped by the dealer. ACDELCO is not involved.

    The Radio program is handled by the Dealer and they use a company here in town called Electrosound .. They bought out Ace Radio about 20 years ago. The main store is in Cleveland. You can’t buy Delco Radio Parts of any kind any more; even the small bulbs in the Radio Dial front. So what do you do. If under warranty, the dealer will handle it. If out of warranty, the dealer still handles the exchange and you will pay a arm and a leg for the unit and labor just to replace a bulb. The bulbs are not available in the aftermarket to my knowledge.

    Now Greg you’re acting just like the media with your runaway rescue. When you state the recall you did just like the media left it to be believed it was a gas pedal recall. Same as the owner stated that they only looked inside the car and stated he was fine. He didn’t like that. So how about stating what the recall was for Greg instead of insinuating it with the gas pedal. The recall was for the mats. Greg. They only had to look inside his Prius and no mat there so no issue. Now Greg how can you smell the brakes burning at speeds of 90 mph? You would smell rubber burning if he did lock his parking brake. Toyota can find out by simply checking the EDR on the Prius. Yes Greg it’s the black box that will tell them exactly what the driver did.
    Now Greg are you trying to say Denise doesn’t know her vehicles? That she’s assuming and only you have “The Know” and no one else can speak. Greg you find it hard because it happens to the Big 3 just as well as it happens to Toyota. Read my other posts and you will see exactly about an 06 Silverado LT3 I had only 2 weeks with 500 miles. It happens Greg whether you like it or not. Now for you not saying one thing about Toyota? You sure haven’t been supporting Toyota. Your last comment to Sab was revealing? Do you want to make a change in your statement that you never said anything bad about Toyota? Also Greg having problems that you repeat yourself?
    Parker it’s a legitimate statement. It should be so but when you have these wonderful trio in Greg, will, and Herb who try to be comical which they should leave it to the three stooges just don’t like Toyota period. They hate Toyota existance and us for buying them.
    Herb that wasn’t called for. He stated what happen to his truck so you ridicule him? You have no class guy.

  256. Jason says:

    Denise – I’m really late to respond (my apologies), but the noise could be the u-joint needing adjustment. It could also be something riding around in the back seat (not trying to be a smart aleck, but I’ve seen that more than once)! 🙂

    Parker – The dealer should be able to tell if you qualify by looking at you VIN # – did they do that? If not, that’s the best way to see if your truck is going to need the part. As long as it’s listed, they should fix it based on your account of the events.

  257. bspurlo says:

    Hey all I forgot the other day the case manager from Toyota told me there was going to be a recall put on all new Tundra’s for the WT-I problem. I don’t know if thats the truth but I wouldn’t see a reason for her to lie to me but then again it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve been lied to. I have had my truck back for two days now and I must say it does seem to run better, not as much of the feeling that it didn’t know which gear to be in at low speeds. It took just over 7 days to get it fixed, I hope that helps if anyone is curious on a time frame, all though i’m sure that has allot to do with who’s performing the work.

  258. rick says:

    bspurlo, good job on the maintenance agreement! i really wanted my dealer, actually toyo to do thta for me but was unsuccessful with that. still planning on buying the platinum service aggreement which is a bumper to bumper extended warrantee but havent gotten around to it.

    even though some people on this site are way off the intention of the blog in the first place, i have to say, you guys and ladies, bring a whole ton of knowlwdge on topics i never knew a damn thing about.

    Parker, they are so full of sh_t. a service bulletin has been issued since jan 26, the day i went in with my light on. the light did come on but then off for awhile during the 2.5 week time for the parts to arrive. i second thought it, but knew the repair needed to be done, so we did it. i cant beleive you will have to be totally incovenianced Gin when the light comes back on which WILL happen. it is amazing to see from dealer to dealer how real life people solve these probs, or how they dont. they should have a disney school for toyo service managers to get these dudes all speaking the same language. man!!!

  259. sab says:

    Toyota Tundra 2010 5.7L with VVTi problem/Lemon Law update.

    There is a lot of extraneous information on this thread, which I thought was about the VVTi problem in 2010 Tundras, but I’ll sign off here just to follow up. After nearly 6 weeks of battling Toyota (sales and service managers as well as owners at both the dealership I purchased truck from plus the dealership I serviced the truck at, and the idiots on the 800 number [which are utterly useless- I am convinced they are nothing more than a placating buffer between customers and the dealerships]; I FINALLY got the replacement truck. I picked up the “Lemon” truck at the servicing dealership, drove it to the purchasing dealership and they gave me a new, identical truck (except the VIN on the new truck allegedly is outside the “danger zone” regarding the faulty VVTi spring). I was also told they will send me a check for the bed liner I had sprayed in the old truck. So, I drove the new truck home and no CEL yet, so far so good. In the end, I think the survey information was what elicited the meaningful action by Toyota. Poor surveys hurt dealerships, so they ‘requested’ that I give a very positive survey for this second transaction. This is “funny” since the sales manager basically told me to go f- myself about 3 weeks ago; now he’s kissing my rear and acting as though it’s my duty to give him a good review.

    ANYWAY, here’s what I’ve learned (intended for new Tundra owners with VVTi issues or other):

    1. The VVTi issue is not a simple repair and at least some dealerships are not well-trained in how to fix this problem. I am sure someone will say that I am wrong, that I was unlucky, etc. Of course this is possible, but… I am not a Toyota tech, just a customer whose been without his new truck for 34 days. MY ADVICE, ask the servicing dealership how many VVTi problems they have diagnosed, seen, and fixed. If none, I would think twice- maybe ask them if they know of a nearby dealer who has done the repair (?? maybe that is stupid idea, but it is logical).

    2. If you buy a new Tundra, fill out the survey information accurately and be articulate (include your case number in the statement, use names [first and last] of those you’ve interacted with. These surveys matter, and it could really save you… if you clearly indicate the problem- eventually it seems someone will notice it (in my case the owner of the dealership). I was told they are rated in 4 categories (condition of vehicle, sale, finance, support- or something like that), and they do look at the survey results- especially if they are negative. Anyway, mind the survey.

    3. Do NOT expect that the 800 number idiots will follow up, call back, help you when it matters, or “serve” you as a customer- they are telling you what you want to hear to placate you. To prove this to yourself, try to get the “case worker” to send you the specific information about your case via email or post (they won’t give it to you) or ask for a phone number of someone else who could help you (they won’t give it to you) or ask what other recourse you have (they will say you have none)… remember: they work for Toyota- not you. Waste as little time as possible dealing with them, trust me. File your case (get a case number) then get an attorney and pound on the dealership(s). In the end of my dealing with the 800 number robots, all they offered me was a detail job and the keys back. They offered to send me the paper work for arbitration when I protested. Nice.

    4. Toyota seems overloaded with problems; e.g., the 800 number sometimes will not even allow you to stay on hold. If you want results, get an attorney (Lemon Law or otherwise). The Lemon Law process (at least in my state) can take several weeks, so you mine as well get started immediately (either after the vehicle has been inoperable for 30 days [culumative OR consecutive], or if there have been 3 repair attempts on the same problem; which leads me to the next thing I learned.

    5. Do not expect the dealership to be honest/open about what they’ve done to your vehicle. I had to query the service manager (who didn’t want to tell me what had been done to the truck at all!), THEN physically walk back to the service area of the dealership, enter the tech area, and ask the dude working on my truck “What parts have you ordered for this vehicle?” His answer(s) were different from the service manager’s answer, and upon me telling him this- his response was “I just work here, man.” My assumption is that Toyota dealerships have to do something with trucks that don’t “run right.” That is, a Lemon Truck doesn’t go up to Toyo heaven; they try to resell it. My assumption is that once a truck is a Lemon legally it is more difficult to sell (??); so perhaps dealerships will be proactive in satisfying customers so as to avoid the problem vehicle being deemed a Lemon (even it legally it is, mine was/is- and they fully intend to resell it). Even though my Lemon truck seemed to drive OK (I drove it about 120 miles back to the selling dealership), I was told by a person at the dealership that they are going to sell the vehicle I returned. Again, many assumptions on my part.

    6. The final thing I learned is that I am not a Toyota technician. I do not know what the VVTi does, and I don’t care. I just know that when I buy a new truck, if the CEL is telling me that it’s not right, that shouldn’t be my problem. I am not convinced Toyota agrees with that assessment. SO, again, I would strongly urge anyone thinking of buying a Toyota to HOLD. Instead of spending money of a new vehicle, consider driving what you’ve got a bit longer and invest the money in Toyota stock… it will likely bottom out over the next few months or early 2011 and then rebound when their entire fleet will include a hybrid option (or when they turn out a diesel tundra!!). The reason I say “wait” is this: tomorrow afternoon, go to your local dealership’s service area and observe how many people are there. You will see cars lined up around the building… all for recalls. Who cares, right? Well, if you are a customer who has a “real problem” (I think the accelerator thing is bogus- since Uncle Sam now owns 40% of 2 of the 3 “big three”- the media smearing of Toyota is probable a political agenda– media=government), you’ll be stuck trying to get the attention of an overwhelmed dealership fed-up with ticked off customers. Just my 2 cents.

    Finallly, I would request that ALL TUNDRA FOLKS WHO HAVE CONFIRMED ERROR CODES FOR VVTI PROBLEM- POST YOUR VIN NUMBER. I would be very curious to see if the service bulletin VIN number ranges for the VVTi problem are accurate. Again, my replacement truck is outside the “danger zone” for the VIN, but perhaps other guys/gals could also post this information (Just state that you had a VVTi problem and you were WITHIN or OUTSIDE the VIN ranges perhaps??). Just a thought.

    Thanks for all the helpful comments! Best of luck to you all. I am glad my ordeal is over, and the salespeople at the dealership and one (1) of the service guys was awesome; wish I could say the same for all the other Toyota people I dealt with. Oh well; it’s a free market.

  260. John F says:

    I agree. There is way too much unnecessary bantering back and forth about unrelated topics. If these people have a problem, why don’t we open a forum for people that have nothing constructive to say and just like to bash other people for their right to choose what ever vechile they want to drive. After all, I belive freedom of choice is still one of our rights as Americans, right?
    As for me, I am off to another forum.
    Thanks for all the helpful information.

  261. VCX2 says:

    All that hassle and drama and you got anther Toyota. Don’t complain when this one craps out on you! Here’s your sign!

  262. Parker Davis says:

    sab – thanks for your comprehensive write up about your experience, which will be helpful to all of us. I am glad your problem is resolved. Here is a question for you or anyone else who might know about this.
    My CEL came on briefly at about 900 miles. Took it to dealer, they checked, said nothing comes up wrong. VIN is in those with possible problem. But her is question: truck runs fine except for 3 concerns. 1. engine noise is LOUD, when I accelerate, from stop or just to increase speed, the engine roars. Must have radio on loud not to go crazy. Is this normal Tundra? 2. When starting from a stop transmission going 1st to 2nd is a bit of a “thump” and feels like a split second without in being in gear. Same thing going around corner, when you brake it downshifting of course, but feels like a second or so without transmission in gear, and then maybe shifts two or more times before it decides what gear. 3. Avg – 12 mpg. I don’t do a lot of interstate driving, some city, but mostly secondary roads at 40 – 50 mph.
    Are the above indicative of the VVTi issue or just “normal” Tundra stuff?
    Thank you for reading and responding.

  263. VCX2 says:

    Frenchy I took your advice, like bad gas this too shall pass. Well Tundras are still here! How long does bad gas usually last?? LMAO!! I love these comments. Take Parkers for instance. Its the same stuff that was posted before. So now all of a sudden someone will have a answer for it for the second time. We your right I do.

    12 MPG, if you are worried about MPG then why did you buy a truck? Maybe you should have thought that through a little better?
    Engine noise, is your window up? If not put it up!
    Thump when shifting, common is some vehicles. Check u joints. Fully stop before shifting, there’s a idea.
    So in closing maybe a truck was a bad idea for you. Maybe a Prius was more down your road. It quite and fuel efficient. All the hip people have them, just look at the guy who was on the Television saying its not a hoax and it really did happen.

  264. Denise says:

    Frenchy- we have another J…A.. here. Everyone needs to ignore this jealousy and stay on topic.
    Parker-some people don’t go to the top of the page because they want to get latest info. What you wrote is great info. Don’t worry about anyone’s idiotic comments.
    Oh and by the way, even though this is not a VVT-i issue, did you all hear that the government is investigating the runaway Prius? They think it was a bunch of BS because they inspectionind any issues with the car during their inspection. Forgive me if this has already been discussed. I just think its worth mentioning since some people are so quick to find wrong doing by Toyota.

  265. Jim Jackson says:

    Parker Davis

    If your VIN is on the list I think you should do the TSB repair. My truck ran a lot different after the repair and it had affected both MPG and shifting. I went into some detail on this on March 6 if you car to go back and read.

    My dealer suggested that I just keep driving if the CEL only came on one time. I asked him if he had anything in writing from Toyota stating that if the CEL only came on once that the truck was OK. He immediately backed off and ordered the parts for my truck. If you read the TSB it sounds like you need to do it period.. However, it is possible that some of VINs on the TSB do not really have a problem if they were not exactly sure when they started putting in the faulty parts.

    If you have a 5.7 it might be affected less since it has more low speed torque to begin with. I live in the Northeast where there are lots of hills and my 4.6 shifts only about half as much as before. In other words it upshifts at a much lower rpm and downshifts much less frequently.

  266. sab says:

    My lemon truck didn’t have any symptoms when I went in for the VVTi fix, but I do now notice less hesitation in the new truck- so maybe there was an issue with the old truck.
    All I can offer is that, if you have the repair done, I would confirm that the servicing dealer has done the repair and get some sense from them about how confident they are about doing it. I don’t doubt that the repair may be simple, given the tech has done it before (ALL speculation on my part). You may also want to ask “what happens if there are problems with the repair?” (find out if a complementary extended warranty could be in play). Proceed with caution, but if they do the job well- there you go. Again, it seemed they finally fixed my old truck (they allegedly flew in a tech from somewhere else!). Good luck.

  267. Mickey says:

    VCX leave the comics to the comedians. Another words don’t quit your day job.

    Denise this is what you’re talking about:
    Jason I hope that link is opkay. It seemed pretty long but I got it off yahoo.

  268. rick says:

    f-off jag!! any truck that costs as much as these ought to get better than 12 mpg! its not an f-250. half the reason they brought on the 6-speed has got to be to offset all the hp’s to maintain some sort fuel economy. your a complete moron!! im not pleased with 13.4 mpg since im driving the truck as easy on the gas as possible with a little slip up here and there. if the sticker says city is 13 or 14 city and highway is 17 or 18, no one would be bringing it up if they got 15 on average, as you prob read me stating much earlier in this blog, but when there are people are stating they are getting almost 20 mpg, then you have to put it out there. am i supposed to drive with the tailgate down, down hills to get better mpg??? it sure seems that way. your comments are out of line!!

    sab, yes, very good feedback, thanks! still unsure why if i come to a near stop, say a rolling stop, when i hit the gas, the truck starts in first and not second. it makes the truck lurch forward unnecissarily, definitely not smooth. the other thin i am noticing is even with the trd suspension, the back end cant hold a trailer tongue wight near as level as my f-150. it sinks so much quicker. i think i will ahev to add something to the back springs or airbag the back springs but not sure which. has anyone done this? i just need it to stay level better than it has. i have to repalce the trailer tongue lift as it has hit the road and caught up on curbs etc to the point of where it no longer works. never had that happen to this point of pulling the same trailer with a 4×4 f-150 for 8 yrs.

  269. bspurlo says:

    Hey guys if your unhappy with your truck my suggestion is sell or trade it in but constant complaining about how my Ford or Chevy or whatever was better wont change your current truck into what you want. I have owned every kind of truck and unfortunately back in early 2000 I traded a truck for a new Chevy and hated it had the truck for 4 months and traded it for a Dodge, and paid through the teeth doing that but I was happier. I have pretty much owned them all and they all have their good and bad qualities ie: gas mileage(good or bad), towing capacity, ride comfort you get the picture. When it comes to gas mileage if your not towing or hauling anything to and from work I suggest spend a little money and buy an old cheap car. I have a little car I paid a thousand dollars for back in 04 and its saved me a ton of money especially when gas jumped up to over $4 a gallon. I hope none of you take this as sarcasm just a suggestion from someone who’s been their done that, good luck all.

  270. Denise says:

    Bspurlo-:– I agree with you. I to have owned many vehicles and 4 of those were trucks. Everyone has their favorites. Even though I had the VVT-i issue, I really like my Tundra. These kind of things happen with all makes and models. Most of the time what makes a person never want to buy a vehicle is not as much what was wrong with it but how you were treated at the place where you bought it and have it serviced.
    Rick- I tow an 18 foot trailer and have not had any issues with it. What do you mean when you said it sinks so much quicker? I use a stabilizer bar on mine. What are you pulling and what is a trailer tongue lift? I’m not the best with actual terminology when it comes to things like this. Lol

  271. rick says:

    well Denise, i am a general contractor doing remodeling of homes. i have a trailer that is an open trailer but pretty heavy. i am not sure of the weight, but its tandem axle with electric brakes and i use it for jobs where the demo is not really enough for a dumpster. we fill it, haul it away etc. sometimes its a heavy load and sometimes it not. i never really had issues with the ford unless i clearly was overweight with the load. today i bought a different trailer hitch ball and mount. the height of the f-150 and tundra are about exactly the same (height of hitch reciever to the ground) but on the new truck, the trailer sinks much quicker, meaning the ford seemed to handle the tongue weight a whole lot better. all that said, i honestly dont know what the tongue wight is porbably mostly becuase it didnt matter with the old truck. so here i am with the new truck and its a problem. just spent about $75.00 today to buy a new hitch insert with a 2″ drop instead of three to lift up the fron higher to compensate for the amount it seems to be dropping down. and i bought an ew trailer front lift cuz the other one is toast, not damaged real bad, but is a real chore to raise and lower the front of the trailer cuz it caught up on curbs and keeps bumping the road when i drive over bumps. in short, the suspension thing are two ideas to firm up and shore up the back leaf springs to lessen the sag. one way is load leveling airbags i guess and the other is some sort of metal inserts invloving the leaf springs. i have a feeling i will still have to do this. guys, i like this truck alot, but i have some issues that i am trying to deal with and this forum has given me the opportunity to say what i feel and get some good info back. sorry if it comes off as i bought a piece of sh*t. i dont really mean it that way. im not even to 2k yet so i hear i am supposed to get better fuel eco by around 3k after its all broken in.

  272. rick says:

    did you all hear about the “big” tundra recall? I mean “tiny” recall. yes, toyota has outdone themselves this time. they are recalling two (2) yes “2”, not one, not 1000, but 2 tundra’s assembled on Oct 24 09 for defective front propeller shaft. what about all us people with the VVTI prob. i sure feel like we are all getting the “shaft”!!! here is the link, how much more rediculous can these guys get???


  273. VXC2 says:

    Rick, why do you have to call someone a moron? I have a 08 F-350 that gets 12 MPG with a 6.8l V-10 6 speed manual. If I complained about the MPG I would kick my self in the ass. That’s why its called a estimate and they say it depends on driving habits. What you are talking about with the trailer is that you need a Weight Distribution Hitch, I figured a smart contractor like your self would know that. Oh by the way driving with your tailgate down decreases your MPG! Metal inserts in your leaf springs have no idea what your talking about but sounds like a REALLY BAD IDEA! How about add a leafs, they are additional leaf springs. It increases your payload. Are you also aware your truck and trailer loaded should be level with each other? That could be why your tongue is getting tore up, truck and trailer are not level. Weight distribution hitch will fix this and the fact your truck squats. Just a moron helping a general contractor.

  274. T-REX says:

    The biggest problem with Toyota and I am on my third tundra since 1997 is they are being assembled in America I have watched my trucks experience more and more problems since my first truck imported from Japan. It’s just another ford,chevy or dodge any more. And yes i had to take my 10 day old tundra in this morning for a vvti replacement.Great start to a new truck experience talk about a bad taste in your mouth!!!

  275. Sam says:

    You hit it on the head, T-Rex!

  276. Denise says:

    hey rick- its not just Toyota’s. Did you hear about GM’s recall?

  277. Masi says:

    No, enlighten us Denise.

  278. Denise says:

    60,000 GM’s recalled for multiple issues including a steering issue. Apparently the one made in Korean. Lol

  279. Tom says:

    Oh, could you be talking of JTEK. The company partially owned by Toyoda who made the power steering for GM that is being recalled. Toyota motors teamed up with them in the 1990’s or was it the 2000’s. Its all on the JTEK site. Why is it funny?

  280. rickruz says:

    Denise, no i was not aware, i guess the only reason there is not yet a recall for VVTi that i can rationalize is they want to sell all the inventory left of effected trucks…whay else would they have not done a recall??? which in my area, it seems to be taking a long time to sell these trucks…

  281. Denise says:

    Well, Tom…I haven’t seen your name on here before but thats ok, I’ll explain. It seems that from time to time we have Chevy, Ford or GM lovers come onto the site to bash Toyota’s. I could be mistaken but I think you might be headed in that direction too. Anyway, it really doesn’t matter who makes what part. Earlier we established that Toyota also get some parts from GM, so now you say Toyota made the part that is being recalled by GM. The truth is who cares!!! It isn’t about who made the part but really where it landed. We could argue all day, “Toyota makes this part, GM makes that part”. The company who produces the vehicle should have some responsibility here. Toyota, GM, Chevy, Ford, Nissan and all those other companies can’t blame a single part on their crappy inspectors and buyers. Toyota has taken responsibility for the issue. I’m sure GM will do as well, but I am sick of all these idiots that come onto this site, that is dedicated to answering questions about Toyota’s, just to bash our truck of choice. So you see Tom it really is said in sarcasm that GM is recalling there vehicles… get it? No company is immune to a recall from time to time. This Toyota recall has been a bad one. Its funny how as soon as a company that has been on top for so long has an issue all those insecure “other truck” owners have to get their jabs in. That’s all Tom!!!

  282. Scott says:

    So I spoke to my dealer today….I just bought the 2010 Tundra (love it BTW) and the dealer say’s unless the light comes on you don’t need to worry about it, based on what I am reading though does anyone have a comment on weather that is true or not and because it’s a TSB is the dealer obligated to fix it anyway even if there is no light on ? or does it have to be a recall ? thx for the help

  283. Denise says:

    Scott-above all these posts is the explanation for the VVT-i issue
    In the explanation is the VIN #’s for the affected trucks. If yours falls in the catagory you will probably have to have yours fixed. I would wait until the light comes on though. If your truck doesn’t have one of the above VIN #’s you don’t need to worry about it. However, if your do end up having to do it just know that I had mine done 2000 miles ago and all is well
    No problem.

  284. Mickey says:

    Well stated Denise. Been out of town for a couple of weeks. A company half owned by the owner of Toyota. Mr. Toyoda owns half. So if we can blame the owner for all these miseries then it’s fair game against GM and Dodge. Since the govt owns them and we know the govt is perfect.

  285. T-REX says:

    So my check engine light went off and has not come back on after being confirmed by the dealer that my vvti needed to be replaced. i am not thrilled about having this done. So i took it back to the delaer he said since the light went of that it is possible that the unit has corrected it’s self for now. and that we could either order the parts and get started or he could wipe the code clean and see if it ever comes back. my dealer said they have never done the replacement on the tundra but had preformed the same service on other vehicles. I am praying that it if it comes back on that it will do it quickly and not 6 months from now. Does anyone think i should contaqct toyota and start a case with them or just sit back and wait to see what happens?

  286. Jim Jackson says:


    If your VIN is on the TSB I think you should get it done. If the light came on it confirms that you have a problem. The truck will likely continue to run the way it is, but you will probably not be getting all the performance that you paid for. I might be more cautious about saying this if the light never came on because when they came up with the VIN list they may have included some VINs that might not have the defective parts to be sure that they got all the trucks that might have the problem. Often in a situation like this they are not 100% sure of the first truck that got the bad parts since they were mixed for a while in the system.

  287. Mickey says:

    Great explanation Jim. I couldn’t have said it better.

  288. Tom says:

    Mickey Said in March 26th, 2010 @7:00 pm

    Well stated Denise. Been out of town for a couple of weeks. A company half owned by the owner of Toyota. Mr. Toyoda owns half. So if we can blame the owner for all these miseries then it’s fair game against GM and Dodge. Since the govt owns them and we know the govt is perfect.

    Tell us about the GM and Toyota ventures? Delhi, Delco, Nummi. So does the Goverment own some of Toyota too?

    Densie I let it go. This is a site for Toyota owners to complain and poke at other brands because thiers is falling apart. You can go buy a dependable vehicle too!

  289. Denise says:

    Tomorrow, what are you talking about? LOL! I do have a dependable truck
    Guess what? Its a Tundra. It went totally over your head. Why don’t you start at the beginning. Then maybe you will understand, maybe.

  290. Denise says:

    That was not suppose to be tomorrow, it is to Tom.

  291. Mickey says:

    Denise he doesn’t care for a Tundra. He’s looking for anything he can give to slam a Tundra.

  292. Mickey says:

    Tom what’s the beef? Your commercials state it best “Like a Rock”. Now get use to that sinking feeling.

  293. Billy says:

    Hey all,

    I had to take my 2010 CrewMax 5.7 in with 250 miles on it for the check engine light. Service guy said it was dirty oil. Then told me it was the VVTi spring issue. Ordered parts and once they came in dealership had truck from about 4 business days. Got it back last Friday, all seems well. It does to seem to either rev higher or have a more sensitive gas pedal, not sure if it’s my imagination or not.
    Who do you recommend I talk to at the dealership regarding the extended warranty as compensation?

    Appreciate any help/advise and I plan to stay on topic here. I am disapointed that I had to take a brand new truck in, however I remain confident in the lifetime quality of the truck.

  294. bspurlo says:

    My Tundra had the same feeling of a very touchy gas pedal after the WTI fix. I have put a couple hundred miles on it now and it seems to be getting better or I am just getting use to it. I got my extended warranty through Toyota, but I also got the dealership to give me free oil changes up to 30,000 miles. This wasn’t about getting a free oil change for me it was about having a Toyota tech looking at my truck for potential leaks at every oil change, plus they were kinda deceitful with me. I don’t want it to sound like I’m talking down about quick change oil places but in my experience they usually wont tell you that your vehicles has a problem unless there’s money in it for them. I hope this helps, remember getting Toyota or the dealership to give you a warranty has allot to do with the wording you use and how you come across. I believe if you explain things to them logically and with a level head you will come closer to getting the response your looking for. Good luck and enjoy the new truck.

  295. […] you research on the VVTi problem to avoid the bad apples and you should end up with a nice truck. 2010 Toyota Tundra VVTi Gear Assembly TSB Explained | Tundra Headquarters __________________ Spruce Mica 2010 Tundra 4.6L V8 DoubleCab with tow package Westin Step Tubes […]

  296. BrianNH says:

    I bought my 2010 Double Cab Limited 5.7 4WD last July. It appears my VIN is included in the TSB but I have about 11,000 miles on it and have not had my CEL come on and do not have any problems with MPG (getting about 15 with mostly non-highway miles). I absolutely love this truck!!!

    Is it safe to assume I’m lucky enough to not have the VVTI issue?

    I know this isn’t the forum but I can’t help myself…for those Toyota bashers out there they obviously have never owned one or know someone who has owned one. They are used to sub-par reliability and don’t know any better. I also have a 2003 Camry XLE and would not hesistate for a second to buy another Camry in the futuer. It is no coincidence that Toyota has been battling Honda for the most reliable cars for a long time now, they consisitently have built a quality product. I don’t buy based on American vs. Foreign, I buy based on consistent reliability. I don’t even want to get into the whole bailout issue, but I am extremely impressed that Ford has survived without any help whatsoever. For that fact alone I would have considered an F150 but I liked the looks of the Tundra and Toyota’s quality reputation. Thanks for listening!

  297. Denise says:

    Brian- I wouldn’t worry if you haven’t had any issues. Someone said earlier in this blog that companies try to narrow down the affected vehicles but they might have extended the VIN numbers to be on the safe side. Enjoy your truck. I had to have the VVT-i work done and have not had any other issues with it since. I am very happy with Toyota. They make a great Truck!

  298. BrianNH says:

    Thanks Denise, 11,000 miles in with no issues I feel pretty good that I may have avoided this issue.

  299. T-REX says:

    Ok i am still procrastinating over taking my truck in for the vvti. So in the mean time i put a k&n air filter in ever since i ‘ve had a high otched whistle but only when i am doing about 50mph and i acellerate. so i put the orig. back in and you can still hear it but not as much as when the k&n is in place. Any ideas?

  300. T-REX says:

    Ok i am still procrastinating over taking my truck in for the vvti. So in the mean time i put a k&n air filter in ever since i ‘ve had a high pitched whistle but only when i am doing about 50mph and i acellerate. so i put the orig. back in and you can still hear it but not as much as when the k&n is in place. Any ideas?

  301. Anonymous says:

    Take it to the dealer and give them a second chance to get it right.

  302. Jason says:

    BrianNH – I would echo Denise’s comments, but if your VIN is listed you can request a replacement. Either way, you’ve got a while to figure out if you want to ask (60k miles on the powertrain warranty).

    T-Rex – Sounds like an air leak – you might want to double check that all the clamps on the airbox are tight.

  303. Billy says:

    Hey guys,
    I posted about a week or two ago, I mentioned about the truck seeming sensitive or touchy… I have also now noticed when I ‘step on’ it from a start the truck seems to disengage or ‘lose power’ for a heart beat or two, then kick back in. I found this material online, has anyone else exprienced this?

    There is a TSB called Thump/Clunk that deals with a similar scenario you may want your dealer to look up. It involves a quick (< 1 hour) replacement of the center drive shaft carrier bearing in 2007-2010 Tundra.

    I don't have it with me for reference number etc., but it should be easy to find. I believe it is valid for 2×4 Tundra.

  304. Anonymous says:

    Really, is anything right on these trucks?

  305. ProStar209 says:

    Hi All,

    Been reading this site for about two months. I have a 2010 that just rolled over 4K today (third week I have had the truck). My VIN number put me in the lot of trucks that this forum addresses. I am very pleased to note that I have not had any “dummy” lights come on and I also have been very pleased with my truck. We have a 2004 sequoia that we bought brand new. I remember it broke in around 10K. We are at 110K and besides normal (breaks, tires, oil, etc…) we had to replace the rear window motor. I wish to those of you who had any problems quick resolution and long term repair free future. I also wish the same to the other brand owners who are reading in on this.


  306. Billy says:

    I’m taking in my 2010 Tundra CrewMax with 2011 miles on it to the dealership today to diagnosis the ‘sensitive’ accelerator and see why there appears to be a power drop for a heartbeat. I hope they don’t tell me it’s in my head. The truck did not respond this way before teh VVT-i fix. This is my second Tundra (had a 5.7 2007) and I love ’em, but this is not making me feel warm and fuzzy, nor my fiance, who’s on the financing papers with me on this one (we took the bait on the 0%)….
    I’ll post later once I know what the dealer in North Texas says..

  307. Jason says:

    Billy – I’ve seen that before and it could explain what’s going on. Keep us posted.
    ProStar209 – Cool – good to hear. Thanks for sharing.

  308. Billy says:

    Hello everyone,

    Updated on the accelerator sensitivity issue after VVT-i fix. Unbeknown to me at the time, while the dealership was doing the VT-i fix, they did the recall on the accelerator. Well, as many of you may know, a lot of people do not like the ‘feel’ of the gas pedal after the recall (shim / software upgrade). The dealership let the cat out of the bag and told me Toyota has authorized them to provide me a ‘new style’ pedal if I was not happy with the one I had after the recall. So, it seems what I was noticing was not in my head, but was actually a reaction of the pedal after the shim was put in place to satisfy the recall. The software portion apparantly, according to the service manager, explain the slight drop in power for a heartbeat. He said this is part of the software upgrade for traction control…. New pedal is on order, once it is installed, I’ll post again and provide my feedback on the feel/touch of the accelerator.

  309. Steve says:

    My 2010 Tundra Limited was running fine before I took it in for the recall. Everything is ok except my truck is downshifting at around 20-30 mph. I opened my hood about 2 weeks later after the repair was completed and found a small wrench sitting on the engine cover. I guess the tech forgot it. I have a 5.7 and feel very upset at 4800 miles that my truck is downshifting. It can’t be good for gas mileage and the transmission. When I fill up the tank it seems to stop but when the tank is around 1/4 to 1/2 it’s there. What did they do. Slow the thing down as a safety thing, or is there something else going on.?? I’m not happy and want it corrected. After spending 48G’s this is not a good feeling. Forget about oh what a feeling.

  310. rick says:

    i had the same or a similar issue thta i asked about a ways back on this forum, and that was noticable downshifting when i let off the gas, the truck was not able to free coast, you could feel it gearing down, i called it engine breaking. everyone including toyo says its normal. not sure if mine still doing it cuz im prob now immune to it, but will check. i felt it is not good for my gas milelage, which BTW is prob averaging about 15.5 for my type of driving. i can live with that. i had the vvti repair done at about 1500 miles and i am now at about 3900 miles. earlier when i was reporting my 12.5 to 13.5 i was not happy especially if VVt-i not only has to do with performance but also efficiency. my truck too seems to really roar in terms of air flow. dont know if its cuz its warmer and my windows are open more or not, but i will check to make sure all the clamps are secured for the air intake. it just seems much louder than before. otherwise i am happy with the truck. got the Rhino liner and i neglected to heed advise of others here and went with it. now that i have it, alomst wish i would have done the line x. while the place i picked boasted of their 20 yrs experience doing these, i can only conclude the guy that did my install did not have too much experience. but once the fancy cap is on and all my crap is in there, not much of it will be seen anyways.

  311. Billy says:

    I need to find out from my dealer actually what ‘recall’ they did when they had my truck in for the VVT-i issue. It was not the gas pedal, as I was told. I found the dealership ‘invoice’ for that in the glove box, it was done back in Feb. (probably before they put the truck on the lot). In talking with the technical last week he mentioned about the software upgrade that goes hand in hand with traction control and how people are not going to like this. So what I may be experiencing after I got my truck back for the VVT-i and what I thought was the gas pedal, is actually an issue wiht a software upgrade that changed how the engine shifts/etc. I wish I knew more, but what I do know is this, the truck does not drive the same now. My ‘new’ style gas pedal is due in this week, again, once installed I’ll provide more comments. I’d love to hear from others who may have insight into this issue.

  312. Jason says:

    Steve – The down-shifting is normal and is designed to improve fuel economy. Remember, the engine computer is doing millions of calcs per second to get the best performance.I think we should give the computer the benefit of the doubt about the best way to shift, but I understand your concern. As for the gas tank, that’s actually a common problem on the Tundra going all the way back to 2007 – https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2007/10/23/toyota-tundra-fuel-gauge-questions/. It’s got nothing to do with the VVT-i. The pedal feel is definitely different after the shim, and I don’t know about the software upgrade for traction control but I’ll ask.

  313. Brian says:

    I experience the downshifting in my ’10 Tundra as well and I believe it is normal. The downshifting seems to be a Toyota transmission issue as my 06 Sienna also does this. This is part of it being labeled ECT-i (electronically controlled transmission with intelligence). This feature is part of the ‘intelligence.’ I actually like it in many ways. If I am applying the brakes on a long hill descent the computer will recognize that I am not slowing down fast enough and the transmission will downshift to further slow the Sienna with engine braking. When I bought my Tundra, this same type of downshifting in the truck felt normal to me. Remember, these trucks are designed to haul heavy things and are tuned as such (i.e. engine braking to save the service brakes from overheating). If you want to coast to a stop, I believe you can get a Ford SD with a 6-speed manual. Dodge also offers a manual trans in the Ram HD (I think). Whichever choice you make, just please stop complaining about your reliable Tundra doing what it was designed to do.

  314. Denise says:

    Thanks for the info Brian. I agree 100%. Some of these people are just jerks who want to put down Toyota. Most of the time they are jealous.

  315. Mickey says:

    Steve my 07 CM does it too only in the mountains when I travel to the in-laws house. Here in flat land florida it will only kick in coming down a bridge if I let it idle going down. To avoid that I just put it in neutral and glide down.

  316. matt says:

    Who is putting down Toyota? They don’t need any help, they are doing a fine job on their own. So all this issues ARE not issues but are expected to occur under normal operating conditions. So if it doesn’t occur then there is a issue, right. I love Toyota’s and their owners, always positive. Saying people are jealous, nope we are just enjoying watching the allmighty Toyota fall on there face! You can not have all the advertising that toyota, and not expect when something like this happens people are not going to find it funny. To say people ARE jealous is like saying I’m jealous you got a speeding ticket. But hey what ever you have to tell your self as you look at it to feel better. I sincerely hope you enjoy your your vehicles, the world is enjoying the drama! Oh dont forget who really controls Toyota, a foreign owned company standing infront of another controls goverment answering questions, then to top it off paying a fine! Yhea they know who’s their daddy!

  317. Brian J says:

    matt – Please return to your own blog and spend your time freely there. This is a Toyota blog and we like our vehicles. If you don’t like Toyota, fine. No one here cares. All vehicles have their problems, high points, and quirks as expressed above and elsewhere. Ford, GM, and Dodge blogs demonstrate that these automakers also have their own issues. Visit the other blogs and you’ll see what I mean. Not everyone likes what you like. Get over it, dude!

  318. matt says:

    I was not the one saying people are jealous! I just wanted to clear the air! I think Toyota has the world record for frame replacement! I’m cheering for them, go Toyota! Its like a spectator sport! Anyways if this is a Toyota site stay on the subject of Toyota, just a idea or deal with the comments. Ford PTO, Ford Turbo V-6, Dodge, Hyundai, huum the jealously comment seems very suspicious now that you mentioned it!

  319. Denise says:

    Brian just a piece of advice about people coming onto this blog to bad mouth Toyota owners, ignore their comments. Its obvious they do not have anything else to do. I found this blog because I had a question about my Tundra, which I had recently purchased. It was answered and I continued to exchange comments with many very helpful people, but there were also others who had to try and bring about doubt for Toyota owners about their vehicles. Needless to say the only thing that happens is bickering back and forth with a bunch of idiots. What I’m saying is don’t pay any attention to them. Say what you need to and ignore any negative people.

  320. Greg says:

    Is the tow/haul activated when the transmission down shifts? I understand the transmission down shifting to maintain the speed if the CC is set or the tow/haul is activated but not under normal circumstances. You would think it is affecting the MPG.

  321. Jason says:

    matt – *sigh* – I’m truly pleased that you come here and comment, but I would appreciate it if you spent less time trying to antagonize everyone and more time trying to contribute. I get that you’re anti-Toyota – we all do – but you haven’t said anything helpful.
    Greg – I think that it is definitely shift logic at work sometimes, but I also think it’s engine mapping because many people don’t have their tow/haul mode engaged. A downshift wouldn’t necessarily hurt MPGs if the engine is preparing for the next move.

  322. Mark says:

    Well, my dealer had my Sequoia for 9 business days, and when they called to have me come pick it up, i was a bit surprised.

    The head (master?) tech told me he just had to replace the OCV! He said he found this problem in a couple Tundra’s and this took care of it. They had it for 9 days and thats all they did!

    I dunno what I should do….tell them i want the REAL fix done, or just wait?

    They had it for 9 days, and here in my state 15 days in under 1 year of ownership = lemon law!

  323. Jason says:

    Mark – Is the 9 day wait because of a parts problem? Seems like a quick repair otherwise…

  324. Mark says:

    Yeah, they said they had to do a “universal parts search” or something of that nature to find an OCV cuz they are backordered (most likely due to this problem).

    Ive been going back and forth w Toyota’s case manager and the GM of the dealership and im still pretty confused. See, the TSB says to do the VVT spring fix, but the dealeeship AND Toyota corporate says the OCV is “the fix” and my Sequoia is fine.

    Thoughts on this? What can i do from here?

  325. Jason says:

    Mark – Not sure…the TSB definitely recommends a new spring, but only if the VIN falls into the range specified. Otherwise, it could just be a valve.

  326. Mark says:

    Yeah, mines on that VIN list. Dealership didnt do the springs when they were “recommended” to.

    Curious as to why not.

    Should i tell them i want it done?

  327. Jason says:

    Mark – I don’t know why this happens. There is some instruction in the TSB about replacing the valves first b/c the spring may be fine. Still, it seems half-ass to me. There are a lot of folks who had the same experience and went to the dealership twice.

    My suggestion – if I may make one – is to write a letter documenting your concerns to the dealership and explaining that, if you have to return for this issue, you’re not going to be a happy camper. If nothing else, you’ll set the stage for a free warranty upgrade if/when the check engine light comes on again.

  328. Mark says:


    Thanks for the info, man. I appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

    I’ll write up a letter and get it sent registered mail ,AND i’ll voice my concerns to the case manager at Toyota corporate that ive been talking with on this whole P0022 issue.

    Ive had the Sequoia back for a couple weeks, and its been fine. Im still waiting for the paperwork from the service techs in regards to the OCV fix (which documents that they had the vehicle for 9 business days) so i better call them and get them to send that documentation to me ASAP. Lemon Law kicks in at 15 days in the shop in 1-year or 15k. Im already more than 1/2 way there. Id much rather keep my truck, but damn, if it becomes problematic again, i’ll throw the keys back with no hesitation.

  329. Jason says:

    Mark – Good idea. I think you can probably keep it and be perfectly fine, but no reason not to cover all the bases.

  330. Alan says:

    2010 Toyota Tundra SN ending in the range listed above. I have never had a check engine light, but I do hear detonation when accelerating. In the old days it meant you had your timing retarded. Is there any chance that I am experiencing the physical symptom of the heavy spring, but not the visual symptom?

  331. Jason says:

    Alan – It’s certainly possible, but the Tundra’s engine computer is usually very sensitive. It might make sense to have someone look at it…detonation is a bad thing in a modern pickup.

  332. Mark says:

    What do you mean, “hear a detonation”? When i first start the truck cold , and as it warms up, i hear that typical valve-knock noise, but ive read this is common. As soon as the engine is warm, i hear nothing but growl. Could u describe this detonation sound? Sounds scarey.

  333. shawn says:

    anybody have problems with engine knocking? my 2010 TRD 5.7 hs an engine knock, louder when cold but still noticable when warmed up, Reading some of the forums seems like this is a common problem with the engine but it looks like most of the people are getting shafted by the dealers telling them “its normal”. just wondering if anyone has any thoughts

  334. Jason says:

    shawn – It’s a normal characteristic, but some trucks are worse than others. It’s called piston slap, and it’s relatively common in new engines. The good news is that the pistons and the cylinders are both coated to be nearly “scuff-proof” so there’s no risk of problems. Chevy trucks from the late 90’s on are pretty well-known for this issue, yet there are many examples of these pickups with 200k+ miles.

    SO, in other words, the dealership is right. It’s normal on a cold engine.

  335. Allen says:

    Jason, much thanks on the “check engine” light saga. I have a 2010 Tundra and was told that the cause for the light coming on was the Mass ASIR Flow Meter (huh). This was replaced (maybe)and three days later it’s back on. On my next visit i was told they suspect ethanol fuel is in the gas tank. WHAT? Every gas station in a 10 mile radius of my home has Gas w/ethanol blend. so thank you and the bloggers for giving me another road to travel in my pursuit of Tundra happiness.


  336. Jason (Admin) says:

    Allen – For sure. If a check engine light is set, the tech can pull a code and then follow a series of procedures to isolate the cause. However, it’s not an exact science. Often times you have to remove and replace a perfectly good part to isolate the error.

    Thankfully, this is done under warranty on your truck. Not sure how ethanol fuel (I’m guessing they mean E-85 rather than gasoline with ethanol, aka E-10) and a MAF sensor could be related, but who knows. Be sure to keep us updated.

  337. Travis says:

    What many of you don’t understand is many techs don’t care but they are the ones that make the others like myself that do care look bad, noone gets credited for the good jobs they do just the bad, the only thing that you have to worry about leaking after replacing the camshaft gear is the valve cover gasket because the valve cover is the only thing that is removed that can leak, just letting you know and if it runs out of the shop after doing this job then it is right and ok because with the 4.7 and 5.7 these engines are a vary interference engine and if you don’t have everything in time and right it would not pull out of the shop, so not all of us are the bad guys at the dealerships but I do agree alot of techs don’t care anymore, mostly because places are hiring about anyone because they will work for nothing and when they get payed hardly nothing they don’t care, but if you love what you do like me you always care, wether it is your own car or someone you’ll never met.

  338. Jason (Admin) says:

    Travis – I hope that we’ve never given the impression that Toyota techs are bad. All of the Toyota techs I know (and I know a few) are hard-working and capable, and if they were ever to get in over their heads on something they would never hesitate to get some help from a senior tech or Toyota engineer.

    Dealership techs don’t get enough credit: It’s a thankless job, and just as you say, when you do your job really well no one even notices.

  339. Denise says:

    Travis-I had the dreaded check engine light come on after having my Tundra two days. I was really pissed. I came to this blog to get answers and thankfully I learned a lot about this particular problem. If you go back to some earlier posts you will see how upset I was and how I came around to become more comfortable with the work that had to be done. My tech did a great job. I am very happy with the service I received. There are some techs out there that I’m sure don’t do the job they should but for the most part I think they do a great job. That goes with all professions, even doctors I’m sorry to say. Don’t take offense to anything bad in this blog. It’s either written by people like me who was mad at the situation. Or it’s from some knuckle head who is anti-Toyota.

  340. Jason (Admin) says:

    Denise – Glad to hear that things are better now! 🙂

  341. Steve says:

    I just purchased a 2011 Tundra. Check engine light and similar “slipping transmission” issue described in the early posts. Dealership says no TSB or known issue on the 2011’s. Two visits back to the dealer so far. First visit reset CEL and drove 7 miles without issue. Second visit included an oil change. So far I have driven an additional 250 miles and just experienced the engine rev/transmission slip again today….total miles of 625. I expect to see the CEL come on soon. Anyone else having issues with the 2011

  342. Mark says:

    Have them bench test the Oil Control Valve. Mine had the CEL go off at 126 miles. Had them replace it, never had another promlem.

  343. Doug says:

    I have had the same problem with the check engine light and the transmission problem, they changed the oil and the light has not come back on. The transmission problem is another thing. I just found this website yesterday, I printed some of the pages and went by the local Toyota dealership all they could tell me was you can’t always believe what you read. They are not going to fix the problem, what is my next step, do I contact Toyota directly.

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