2008 Tundra vs. 2009 Dodge Ram Part One – Mechanicals

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Dodge and the new Dodge Ram have been under fire quite a bit lately, and for good reason:

While everything we’ve said above is true, one thing is certain. The new Dodge Ram 1500 is a hell of a truck. Our official comparison of the 2008 Tundra and the 2009 Ram will follow our previous 2007 Tundra vs. 2007 Ram comparison format – we’ll give you the highs and lows around the important distinctions and evaluate the key components. In an effort to decrease the perception of bias, we’ve pulled in freelance writer Dan Murphy to assist us with this comparison.

Let the showdown begin!


There are new components and improvements to the �09 1500�s engine line-up, but Dodge hasn�t reinvented the wheel here. Instead, they’ve fine-tuned the original with updated technologies. The “new” 5.7-liter V8 HEMI has been revamped with new cylinder heads with high-flow ports, larger valves, and an increased compression ratio. The HEMI is now rated at 390 horsepower (up from 345 for the ’08 HEMI) and 407 lbs/ft of torque (up from 375). Newly added variable valve timing (VVT) and the new short runner valve (SRV) active intake manifold improve efficiency and performance, and fine-tuning has allowed for a more aggressive multi-displacement system (MDS). At cruising speeds with low demand on the HEMI, four cylinders are deactivated for fuel savings. Dodge must be given credit as the MDS system is seamless. The net result is that fuel economy has improved. A fully-loaded, 2009 Laramie 4×4 is rated at 13 mpg city and 19 mpg highway. Not bad.

Performance tests, according to Edmunds.com, indicate the 2009 Ram with the 5.7 HEMI can hit 60 in 7.6 seconds and take the quarter-mile in 15.6 seconds topping out at 87.7 mph. On our test drive, mashing the throttle didn’t get that instant, pinned-to-your-seat feel we craved. Still, you can’t ignore the HEMI’s power.

Optional Ram 1500 engines include a 4.7 V-8 with E85 compatibility, 310 horsepower and 330 lb./ft. of torque and the 3.7 V-6, rated at 215 horsepower and 235 lb./ft. of torque.

On paper, the Tundra 5.7-liter V-8 hits just below the Ram’s performance numbers: 381 horsepower and 401 lb./ft. of torque. Dodge is probably jumping up and down with glee, but they shouldn’t be. The Tundra’s power is more readily accessible – you hit the pedal and all those horses are ready to ride. Toyota is still a step ahead in the performance technology department with a more sophisticated variable valve timing system (VVT-i), 32-valve head, acoustically controlled induction system (ACIS), dual stage intake manifold, and exhaust headers. All this adds up to a 5.68 second 0-60 mph run. If you compare the charts on the two engines, Ram’s torque line takes longer to peak out, but stays high through a longer rpm range. Fuel economy for the Tundra 5.7L isn’t quite as good – 13 mpg city and 17 mpg highway.

The ratings on Tundra’s optional engines: 4.7-liter V-8, 276 horsepower, 313 lb/ft of torque; 4.0- liter V-6, 236 horsepower, 266 lb/ft of torque.

Winner: Dodge’s new high-tech HEMI is a huge improvement over the old motor and the higher performance ratings would seem to indicate the new HEMI trumps the Tundra’s 5.7. However, the fact remains that real-life performance figures (0 to 60 and 1/4 mile times) and our observations don’t agree with the statistics on paper. While some will argue that performance figures have little to do with real-world usability, they’re the best objective measurement we have. The Tundra’s engine is a better real-world performer. As far as fuel-economy is concerned, the Ram’s better rating definitely makes this decision tough. We’ll have to call it a tie, which means the Tundra (the older engine design) wins.


When we took these two trucks up a local mountain road (about 4000′ of elevation gained on a nice long twisting route), it occurred to us that the fading population of manual transmission fanatics will be disappointed with both of these trucks. All ’09 Ram models are automatics – no clutch pedals in sight. Tundra doesn’t offer one either. So it goes.

The shift control in the Laramie’s center floor console has a nice, firm feel. The transmission in the Ram V-8s is a 5-speed with a tow/haul mode option and new Electronic Range Select feature that should satisfy most everyone looking for control. To Dodge’s credit, the 5-speed is as smooth as glass with imperceptible shifts.

The Tundra’s standard 6-speed transmission (when paired with the 5.7) offers excellent performance, even on our mountain road. You could easily edge off the gas through the turns and regain speed on the straights. Even at 65 mph on the steepest grades, there was more power left to tap into. The Tundra’s transmission seems to holds gears longer under acceleration, and shifts are heard rather than felt. The difference between the two transmissions is fairly obvious, and that is likely a function of the Tundra automatic’s extra gear.

Winner: Tundra. When it comes to transmissions, more speeds almost always equals better performance, and this test was no exception. The Tundra’s 6-speed transmission is arguably the best in the class.


The Ram features 4-wheel discs with ABS plus a nice, confident brake pedal feel. The system is supplemented with an Electronic Stability Program that keeps the stops straight, as well as brake assist for emergency stops. The Ram 1500 has 13.2-inch vented discs with two-piston calipers up front and 13.8″ discs with single-piston calipers on the rear. Other testers (with big budgets and access to test equipment) have reported a 60 to 0 154-foot braking distance with the off-road package’s Wrangler ATS tires. Not bad, but not as good as our Tundra. On our own un-measured panic stop, the Ram’s brakes were also a little “grabby.” To be fair, Popular Mechanics tested a Ram that achieved a 60 to 0 distance of 131 feet. Clearly tires are a factor.

The Tundra’s brakes are quite a bit bigger (13.9 inches vs 13.2 inches) and thicker (1.26 inches vs. 1.10 inches) than the Ram 1500’s brakes. The Tundra’s pedal feel is just as firm, and our Tundra panic stop felt less grabby. Edmunds.com tested a range of Tundras and measured 60 to 0 braking distances measured from 145.5 to 131 feet, depending on the configuration.

Winner: Tundra. Bigger brakes make for shorter stops, not to mention better resistance to brake fade under towing. At worst (depending upon the brake test results you choose to believe), this category is a tie.


The Ram’s frame is hydroformed (reducing the number of welds) with fully boxed rails, carrying a tensile strength rating of 85,000 psi. The advantages are strength and a 30 lb. weight savings. It’s hard to beat. The rear section is a complete re-design to accommodate the new coil spring rear suspension.

The Tundra’s frame is arguably it’s weak spot. While the jury is still out on Toyota’s choice to use the triple-tech frame instead of a more traditional fully-boxed frame (like the Ram, F150, and GM trucks), it’s clear from stories of bed-bounce that Toyota hasn’t gotten the frame completely right.

Winner: Ram. Toyota’s decision to use a frame completely different than every other truck seems like an unwise decision.


The Ram 1500 payload maxes out at 1,910 lbs (regular cab, long bed, V-6, when properly equipped). The Crew Cabs are limited to shorter beds, reducing the max payload to 1,620 lbs. Bed options include four adjustable cleats for tie-downs and a bed divider/extender on the Crew cab.

The highest payload capacity for a Tundra is 2,060 when properly equipped. The 5’5″ bed available on the CrewMax tops out at 1680.

Winner: For most intents and purposes, it’s a tie. Ties always go to the vehicle with the older design (it’s only fair). Tundra wins.


This one is fairly cut-and-dry. Tow capacity on the Ram: 9,100 lbs. (again, when properly equipped). Tundra’s top tow rating is 10,800 on the Tundra grade 4×2 5.7-liter V-8, regular cab, long bed.

Winner: The Tundra – by a ton (pun intended).

Make sure to read part two2008 Tundra vs 2009 Dodge Ram Part Two – Features and Pricing.

Filed Under: Toyota Tundra Reviews and Comparisons


RSSComments (103)

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  1. Jeremy D Great says:

    The Dodge LOOKS great. It vastly outclasses everyone else on appearance. Chrysler really did their homework in the design department.

  2. Ian says:

    I have to say that as much as I love the Tundra, Toyota missed the mark on the frame AND the interior looks when compared to the comp. Why not fully box the frame? Why not match the interior looks with their superior quality? I have driven both and can say that Dodge did create one hell of a good truck. The Toyota has the superior engine but the Dodge has the better interior. Come on Toyota stop playing games and get it right!!!

  3. Ian – I agree about the frame. It’s still early (after all, we won’t know about the Tundra’s frame for a few years), but I agree that it would have been safer to follow everyone else and fully box. As for the interior, I think the Ram looks great. The Tundra interior is a little more utilitarian, but I think that’s preferable. It IS a truck after all. Thanks for commenting!

  4. Greg says:

    Toyota pioneered the full boxed frame in the 80’s and early 90’s, i dont know why they got away from it when they started making the tacoma in 95…

  5. lol says:

    Yea right go to car and driver or motortrend then see who won this comare.Of course this cheap no name source is gonna say tundra won look at the brand.I have owned a tundra they are not nearly as good as the dodge ram.

  6. Mickey says:

    Lol, Glad you’re a sore looser…..

  7. Greg – Good point.
    LOL – Thank you. One question – how did you find us?
    Mickey – I think so.

  8. Jeff says:

    I own a 07 tundra.I have beat the crap out of it.I love it. fast,good handling,brakes, you name it.Very good 4×4.Dodge does look much better.I like em both but with chrysler’s bleak future I think I am going for the 09 tundra.

  9. Gearhead says:

    Just purchased my Dodge 09,390 hp,quad cab,2500 (3/4 ton), 4×4 on Wed.,1-7-09.
    It is a rocket!…if the Tundra is faster/quicker it couldn’t be by much.
    If Toyota offered a 3/4 ton, I would have given it a test drive.
    With Dodge’s lifetime powertrain warranty on the gas engine….it was hard to overlook. The steering on this 09 sucks. My 04 1/2 Dodge2500,Cummins,Quad Cab,4×4,short bed had the best road manners (handling,cornering,steering) of any of my trucks over 34 years of driving…but, this 09 hemi sort of “wanders” down the road…it has no “road center” feel and the feedback from the steering/road leaves you with a lack of confidence….other than that, the engine, tranny, and brakes are awesome!!!!

  10. John Youngblood says:

    Surprise, surprise: a website called Tundraheadquarters picks the Tundra over the Ram. Well, I help BUILD the new 2009 Ram, but even IF I didn’t work for Chrysler there’s NO WAY I’d ever be caught dead in a Tundra. If Chrysler actually survives (and obviously I pray that it will) it will be in large part due to the Dodge Ram.
    Japan (and the rest of Asia) builds our computers, TVs, almost everything electronic anymore. Some things should STAY American. Japan has, with the complicity of our government, committed ecenomic terrorism on the US economy with the flood of imports and Tokoyo East car plants in southern U.S. states. Japan STILL imports over 50% of its cars sold here from Japan. Hmmm: how many US vehicles do you think were sold in Japan last year? Anyone?
    Working on assembling the 2009 Dodge Ram, I can say their interiors are anything BUT cheesy. Maybe TOO classy for some who need a real workhorse. But the Tundra looks like a bug-eyed monstrosity, an oversized Tonka toy.
    Personally, I think anyone who buys a Tundra or Titan instead of an American-labeled truck is pretty damned selfish and short-sighted. If you don’t like the Ram, then buy a Chevy or Ford. They’re damned good trucks too.
    Here’s a head’s up: internal memo from Toyota a few years ago, quickly suppressed: there is a plan afoot on paying “prevailing AREA wage” as opposed to “prevailing INDUSTRY wage” to their autoworkers. Hmmm: I wonder what the prevailing AREA wage in Alabama is. Yes, folks: if the Big 3 go under, then Japan will call all the shots, and the only difference between one of their autoworkers and a McDonalds employee is that a McD worker gets his food half-priced.
    Well, THAT should provoke some comments. Gimme your best shot.

  11. hauk eye says:

    the dodge looks so much better that front end is cool

  12. justin says:

    if toyota thinks thay can do a better job on mpgs i cant wait 2 see it .
    my dodge 3500 dully gets about 28 to 30 mpg .
    i have made some upgrades but no cumputer chips
    my truck is a 2006
    if thay can do it and compeat i hope thay build a 1 ton dully.

  13. John – While I respect your work and the new 09′ Ram, I have to say your accusations of “economic terrorism” are based on a complete and total lack of understanding. To say that “if the Big 3 go under, then Japan will call all the shots” is ridiculous. IF the Big 3 file bankruptcy and restructure, then Toyota would be the world’s largest manufacturer. But VW (Germany) would be a close 2nd, followed by GM, Ford, and Hyundai (Korean). Then there are about 2 billion people in China and India that like to buy Great Wall, Chery, and Mahindra brand vehicles, and those three companies could become the largest automakers in the world WITHOUT SELLING ONE CAR IN NORTH AMERICA…but you can bet that they’re going to start selling cars here ASAP. So while your fears of Chrysler’s collapse are reasonable, your fears of Japan taking over are not. Besides, your argument rests on one very untenable point: To say that Americans must buy American vehicles is the opposite of capitalism. For the record, I hope that Chrysler survives and thrives.

  14. Justin – I encourage you to enter your truck into the Guinness Book of World Records. 28-30mpg isn’t just amazing, it’s IMPOSSIBLE. Go sell crazy some place else! 🙂

  15. Anonymous says:

    Jason: appreciate your comments: will attempt to clarify mine. All I am saying is WHEN the American consumer has opportunity to purchase AMERICAN-made products, especially big ticket items such as vehicles, they SHOULD buy American cars. There is no major difference in price or quality between American and foreign cars. 30 yrs ago, perhaps, but the quality gap is virtually non-existent now.
    We owe foreign countries ENOUGH already. We should support OUR industries, not further erode our prosperity by supporting THEIR industry. Especially when many of our internatrional competitors (and they ARE that, our competitors) devalue their currencies and place quotas and restrictions on imported American vehicles and other products.
    You are also assuming that, should an American vehicle company go bankrupt, that they’ll be able to restructure. I have little doubt, and so do many experts, that bankruptcy for one of the Big 3 will in fact be a liquidation of the company.
    I believe in FAIR trade. FREE trade is a fallacy. Americans have been suckered into globalization and its’ so-called “benefits”, when all it has in effect done was lower our standard of living, not raise up the rest of the worlds’.
    Soon China will, if allowed (and who’ll stop them, Congress?) begin shipping and selling cars in the U.S. And the gullible American public will buy them too, giving more of our money than we already do to support a Communist country. Never thought I’d see THAT.
    America used to be the world’s largest exporter. Now, we are the largest IMPORTER and a debtor nation. We don’t need tariffs on things coming into our country: if we just stop buying their crap, eventually they’ll get the hint and stop shipping it to us. I say charity begins at home.

  16. John Youngblood says:

    Sorry, Jason: forgot to put my name on last msg (the one from 7:06pm 1/17.

  17. Mickey says:

    So now John you’re telling us to buy american. When did this country lose the freedom of choice? I had 2 of the 3. Dodge wasn’t a choice. The 2 others had their shot with a truck and both were plague with issues and customer service was the lowest I’ve ever seen. I don’t want to buy another truck if I have to. This time I went with quality vice what you mention was equal quality. When you have cpu issues on one and a headliner and with both taillights falling off on the other I don’t see quality there. Your problem lies in the lines you wrote and don’t realize it. “When all it has in effect done was lower our standard of living, not raise up the rest of the worlds”. We are a country that doesn’t want to work for a lower wage or do manual labor etc. We are to good for that. As far as vehicles go to export your Big 3 have to make efficient ones. Remember oversea fuel cost 4x more than here per liter to a gallon here. You’re looking for fair trade and we build mediocre vehicles here. The rest of the world doesn’t spend/go in debt like americans do. They spend on what they have. You can’t blame that on any foreign country. You want the better lifestyle than most of the world than you can’t blame the CEO’s for taking the money on their companies we now bailout. You remember the better lifestyle. You remember the loan companies ripping off the american citizen stating they can afford housing. Before telling someone to buy what you want them to buy maybe fixing the backyard of the country should be the priority. Also to mention I did my time and I deserve my right to freedom of choice.

  18. John Youngblood says:

    You obviously have freedom of choice when deciding whether to purchase anything, including whether you buy a vehicle from a foreign country that helps support THAT country’s industry and economy OR buying from an American producer and keeping those jobs at home.
    Mind you, I’m no xenophobe, but I find it interesting how people are so unforgiving about the crap (and it WAS in large part crap) the American auto companies put out in the 70’s and 80’s, and will NEVER buy another American vehicle, yet are forgiving to a fault when it comes to purchasing Japanese vehicles from the same country who brought us Pearl Harbor. I’m just saying…..
    If you think all American cars are junk, then by all means buy your foreign car. I’ve no doubt you have at least one in your driveway as we speak. Turn a blind eye to the uneven playing field foisted upon us by the Japanese and other foreign auto manufacturers (along with our complicit government), turn a blind eye to the VAST improvements in quality American auto makers have made over the past 15 years, deny that the only difference in Japan’s employees in southern US have an advantage competition-wise is due to their lack of legacy costs borne by the Big 3. But what is unmistakable is this: our industrial base is almost entirely gone in this country. And I for one will not willingly make a choice to abandon that by purchasing from another country’s corporation what an American company can provide.

  19. Mickey says:

    So be it John. I do have two Toyota’s both 07’s. I did have an 06 Silverado with headliner, taillight and to mention ABS issues. That’s VAST IMPROVEMENTS ON QUALITY. Had the truck only 16months and it was in the shop over 20x. It was Chevy’s top of the line LT3 on a Ext Cab. What you’re saying I should suck it up and take this crap because it’s american! Come off your high horse. Like you I work hard for my money and I don’t deserve that from a top of the line truck or if it’s the base model. You said 70’s and 80’s my friend it’s still there in the 00’s. How can you enjoy your ride when you have a constant issue with a headliner and brake vibration issues? Did I forget being accused by the factory rep also? This kind of B/S pushes someone away for good. So don’t try to put that “we are ruining this country” crap on me for buying something worth the money. As I said before fix your backyard and look at your electronic you have and toys for your kids. Oh yeah they asre made in China, Korea, and Tiawan. When you have all american products at home then you can speak about all american. Did you forget we are the melting pot? We have everyone from all over the world living here. You using the Pearl Harbor as an excuse is low my friend. Need I say all the black ops we as americans ran or what we are doing to cuba and other countries? You don’t think the big 3 get incentives from where there at? Don’t be so simple John. The industrial base is falling because they don’t look ahead to the future and keep up with the changes. On a last note I hope your computer isn’t made outside the US then we will hate to see you go, since you will stick with only a US company. BTW don’t watch the superbowl on that sony…….Not right that you do. One word will come to mind if you have one “Hypocrit”.

  20. John Youngblood says:

    Mickey: apparently you either didn’t read or didn’t comprehend the last sentence of my previous msg. What I SAID was that I would NOT buy a product made by a foreign company WHEN an American company can provide one. So tell me: where can I buy an American-made TV or DVD player? Had to buy a damn toaster last week and EVERY ONE of them were made in either China or Taiwan. The point being, it is sometimes IMPOSSIBLE to buy an American-labeled product, especially electronics. So I’m not being a hypocite by pointing this out.
    It is also small wonder that someone such as yourself, who owns 2 Toyotas, would slam the American auto industry as a way to justify abandoning American-made vehicles from AMERICAN companies. You know WHAT? Every piece of junk I’ve ever had (2 that I can think of) were Big 3 vehicles. AND, every good reliable car I’ve ever owned were ALSO from the Big 3. I’ll take my chances. Everybody has had a good and a bad experience if you drive long enough. I myself have owned a 2001 Dodge Dakota since buying it brand new: it’s been one of the best vehicles I’ve ever owned, having just rolled over 130,000 miles. So, sorry to hear about your Silverado–maybe you should’ve bought a Ram.
    And our industrial base (3 MILLION jobs lost in the manufacturing sector alone in the last year) is failing in large part because corporations offshore much of the work to countries with non-existent labor policies, non-existent environmental safety requirements, and much cheaper labor. This lowers their overhead and increases their profits. It’s NOT because they’ve failed to “keep up”.
    Pearl Harbor: again, not a cheap shot: all I was pointing out is that it’s interesting how people justify things when it suits their interests and point of view. Japanese companies have only done what our gov’t has allowed them to do: all I’m saying is it would be nice if their markets were as open to our products as ours is to theirs (and idea conceptualized by the “FAIR” trade argument).
    Foreign companies and countries are our trading partners but also, and especially, our COMPETITORS. And as I stated before, I will NOT buy their products if I can buy an American-made product from an American country.
    One last note: as a St. Louisan and former long-suffering Cardinal football fan, I say “GO ARIZONA!!!!”

  21. John Youngblood says:

    FYI: will be watching the Cardinals beat the Steelers (let’s say, ummm….31-17) on my 32″ flat-screen Vizio. But, if I have to go outside, I’ll hear the Cards kick butt on the stereo of my American-made and proudly-owned Chrysler Sebring.

  22. John – Thanks for commenting here, I think you raise some interesting points. First and foremost, I think you’ve got the superbowl score backwards! 🙂 Second, I think your argument that FREE trade is not FAIR trade is an interesting one that requires further thought. To your point about declining manufacturing, I wonder if a declining manufacturing base is a sign of a problem, or if it’s a sign of a more advanced economy? After all, most manufacturing jobs are relatively low skill (assembling toasters). Without insulting anyone who has a manufacturing job, if the amount of skill needed to work at an assembly plant is so minimal that a person living in Mexico with a 5th grade education can complete the tasks effectively, what’s the rationale for keeping the job here in the USA? After all a person in Mexico will work for less, and until that changes (or until the jobs become more technically demanding), anyone with enough skill that’s willing to work for less than a US worker will have an advantage. GM, Ford, and Chrysler made a logical choice to move plants to Mexico (and elsewhere) for this very reason. Of course, other manufacturers have made their operations more technically demanding, using more automation and employing educated and trained technicians. But more automation leads to fewer actual jobs, so the number of workers needed to manufacture the same amount of goods declines. Therefore, I’m not convinced that a drop in manufacturing jobs is a drop in manufacturing ability…it could be an increase in automation…and an indicator of a more advanced economy. Whatever it is, it’s not the whole story.

  23. Mickey says:

    As I said before about fair/free trade it will be the same because the people overseas pay almost twice as much for gas than we do. Hince they won’t buy american made vehicles that only get 20mpg. They would go broke. Not to mention most roasds over there aren’t as wide as ours and you suburban won’t fit so how do you plan on beating those issues. Build better efficient vehicles that can be used and it will increase overseas. Namely one Ford Ranger is one of the most exported vehicles we have. Not matter what John I’m buying what is the best for my dollar including quality. I will give you congrats on the Cardinals. I will go for them also. My wife likes Pittsburgh so I’m on the other side. Plus my team even though I don’t live there no more is the Saints and your Cards are an NFC team so I stay in my conference. My wife’s actual team is the Jags and like you I will laugh at her on that. John your point well taken about the toaster. Hell I haven’t actually look for one of those in quite some years to know who makes them.

  24. John Youngblood says:

    Thank you, both Jason and Mickey. Lincoln said it best: “Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection.” Passionate arguments aside, I agree that this is the greatest country on God’s earth, and we all do in fact have freedom of choice in how we worship, how we vote, and what we buy. I would not wish it any other way. We can simply agree to disagree.
    Lastly: Big fan of Kurt Warner, and I miss the old St. Louis football Cardinals. My wife I think is secretly in love with Kurt Warner, so at least we’ll be rooting for the same team. Will have to just keep wiping off the slobber off the screen. Cards are on a HOT STREAK—still prognosticating 31-17 Big Red!

  25. Mickey says:

    John I hope so. As long as they win. The crap I give my wife is that the Jags former QB (Leftwhich) is backup QB on the Steelers and he’ll have a chance to get a ring before her Jags the irony in that.

  26. Cody says:

    I own a 09 Ram Crewcab Sport, and just wanted to comment on the performance as metioned in the above article. Torque management is the only problem I see with the truck, but is good to have when you need it. For those of you that like performance like myself, here are some numbers.
    I have 3:55 gears: Stock 0-60 7.3seconds @ 15.4 Quartermile
    Bully Dog GT Installed: 0-60 6.3seconds @ 14.7 Quartermile
    Flowmaster 50 series: Sounds Great, No difference in performance
    AFE Stage 2 Installed: TBA

    I have smoked Chevy’s (and I’ve always been a Chevy Man, My last truck was a Avalanche 2500 with the 8.1liter) Ford’s, and Tundra’s. I havn’t raced the Titan yet, but I hear they’re fast.

    Just sharing info, no reply’s wanted.

  27. Cody – Those numbers sound good – especially with the Bully Dog GT. That’s a huge improvement. Those times should beat most naturally aspirated trucks on the road.

  28. Anonymous says:

    Americans have no pride.They says its a choice but in reality it is unpatriotic not to buy an American vehicle if it is well built. There are enough choices to make everyone happy. People who cant see the beauty and reliability in the new american cars and opt for a camry or altima are just downright unpatriotic. Men from this country have given their lives so this country could prosper and these weenie boys who buy foreign cant even do this small thing to support our economy. Most foreigners deep inside despise the american way and fight at every turn to keep their own cultures while pretending to be true Americans. These same foreigners take business loans and free college at the expense of American kids and you have the audacity to not even consider a very reliable well performing american built vehicle. The Japanese government and country which you support both idealogically and economically hates the American way. If you will recall they tried to destroy our way of life only a generation back. You people disgust me. When I drive down the road and i see someone in a foreign car I immediately place them down a notch as an American. For Gods sake wake up. If this love of all foreign does not change then very soon(very soon) the US will be a third world country with slave wages and no rights. Remember the only true freedom comes from economic freedom. Just think if things dont change and you as Americans dont wake up you will be able to drive a ten year old Corolla to the gravel pit where you work 16 hours a day with two breaks for a $100 a week. Stop while theres still a chance.

  29. vivi says:

    Refrain from buying anything from Japan or China. I mean anything from those two countries. Do your homework and buy only American or non Asian products. It is time we took our country back. I for one have started a movement in my city with fliers and advertising to make people aware of the dwindling american manufacturing sector and the future of our kids. All Americans from this day forward take pride in your country and stop feeding the enemy. Remember very soon your children will feel the effects of the choices we make now. Talk to your friends about the purchases they make and convince them of the importance of this issue.

  30. Mickey says:

    From Anonymous:
    Men from this country have given their lives so this country could prosper and these weenie boys who buy foreign cant even do this small thing to support our economy.
    Since I gave 21 years of my life to the US Navy I don’t have a right to buy what I want? Did you ever get out of school yet? You have no clue in what you’re talking about. Why don’t you send a message to Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, and Illinois that they don’t deserve a paycheck because the name of what they are building isn’t American. Again I have to say this. You definitely have electronics or you wouldn’t be here. Now guess where you’re electronics come from? You’re dispictable for buying a foreign product. I bet you even have Wrangler jeans in your closet. How much of your clothing comes from overseas? You need to look into that mirror of yours and state that staement again. Sorry the mirror is made in Korea.
    These same foreigners take business loans and free college at the expense of American kids and you have the audacity to not even consider a very reliable well performing american built vehicle.
    You don’t know 1/8 of the people who own a Toyota to even say this. By the way I owned all big 3 and recently had Ford’s and GM. If you want to complain about the free college and business loans go talk to Nancy Pelosi and she will tell you you’re “Un-American” for not helping these people. You need to think before you just write anything that comes to mind. No need to reply to the rest of your ramblings because that’s exactly what they are. You want to talk economics we can but you’re far from talking anything truthful or factual here. Oh by the way how American is your trucks when they are “SUB-ASSEMBLED” in Mexico? Where does most of your parts come from???? You need to go back to school because you forgot one thing, that is to graduate
    and actually learn something.

  31. Mickey says:

    Vivi join the ranks and file with anonymous and the others with your dumber than crap thinking. Who are you to tell me what I can do anyway? If you want total freedom go buy yourself an island and see what your total freedom buys you. You will learn economics in a hurry. You have the internet and a computer. Imagine this Vivi both are outsource to another country to work here and you are using them. The clothes on your back? Your electronics, etc. Most of the appliances now come from parts overseas. You ever think of the rubber on your tire’s come from?????

  32. PERRY says:

    Oh for goodness sakes! WHY DO YOU PEOPLE THINK THAT TUNDRAS ARE EVEN SOLD? I have had dodge ( In the shop at least 30 times in two years …..Cheap Crap ! ) Four Fords and motor strong but unstable rides….08 kingranch 4×4 20″ wheels vibrate all over the freaking place and very bad wind noise! 07 GMC Yukon ( Serious,Dangerous electronics issues traded in for new Escalade …now have transmission issues in the all wheel drive!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!
    My neighbor has a three year old decked out Tundra and not even a squeak!!!
    I have been buying American most of my life and you people say support our country!!!! I am a republican and believe in my country but the shame on you if you think that being forced to do something because it is your duty as an American….kindda like obama saying recirculate our money to the worthless seating around waiting for our hard worked money to be landing in their lap!!!!!!!! American car companies are struggling because their products are junk!!!! Look I beleive in my country but just because the vehicle is redesigned it does not mean it will last……I have spent tons of money on repairs and am sick of it especially now during our struggle with making ends meet! Remember that judging a book by its cover is only skin deep! american car companies need to stop competing with each other and have something to compete with the global market.

  33. Jason says:

    Perry – I agree – it’s really pretty un-American to say ‘buy American.’ Being an American means we get to buy whatever the hell we want. The cool part is, the Tundra IS MORE AMERICAN than the Dodge! LOL!

  34. brian says:

    Hope your gas pedals don’t stick and hurt anybody. Don’t really like 1/2 tons anyway, but i am a dodge man and one thing your toys will probably never have is a solid front axle with lockers like my powerwagon. So if my ’07 powerwagan is 2 or 3 seconds slower on asphalt I can live with that, but my so called cheaply built truck with a real front axle will go places and take a real life harder pounding than an IFS truck ever will. So as long as dodge puts a solid axle in their HD trucks (sure they always will) I will remain a loyal MOPAR customer!

  35. Mickey says:

    Brian you shouldn’t throw stones at glass houses. Do we need to list Dodge issues mainly bailed out? By the way change that Mopar to Italian by design. First off I don’t need a 4×4 so why would I buy one. I use my truck for what I intended it for. Takes me fishing and tow’s what I need to go fishing. So what I said isn’t real?

  36. brian says:

    My dads 1979 impala station wagon could take me fishing, tow a boat and haul 4’x8′ sheets of plywood, so I guess you really don’t need a truck do you. Bailing out never killed anybody, and I will say my wife owns a seqoya, hell i can’t even spell that stupid overpriced peace of craps name right, but I do enjoy the way the dealership kisses her butt everytime it needs serviced,80,000 miles 1mastercylinder 2traction control unit 3 transmission 4axle seals.They sold her on all of the pictures of truck with 200,000 miles in the showroom, my only response, all were 4 cylinders1

  37. Mickey says:

    Brian being bias is one thing but being a reaer end is another. Bailing out is okay? You definitely are a lost one.

  38. Nick S. says:

    Dodge (Chrysler) was owned by the Germans until a few years ago. They found it unprofitable and dumped the brand. Now its owned by the US Taxpayers so I guess it is really the only “American” auto company. Too bad they outsource most of their parts and a large part of assembly to latin America. At least the Tundra is made in the USA by US workers with a high percentage of US made parts. If the profits go to Japanese accounts and are then spent on more US dealerships and plants, what have we really lost? Its not like Chrysler is building plants in the US any time soon….or Ford…or Chevy.

    People need to get out of the 1970’s. The US automakers have failed, partly due to collective bargaining and partly due to taking their markets for granted. (gee, lets build the same truck for 20 years without improvement, I’m sure the Japs won’t catch up…well they did). Ironically, Nissan invented the pickup truck and the crew cab…

  39. matt says:

    Nick, so the imports did catch up. Did being the key word. I see what your trying to say but the facts are who tried to cover up a safety issue and stood I front of Congress? So who is controlled by the us goverment? Last time I checked Chrysler’s no longer in debt to the American people! Further more who ever doesn’t approve of what the Government did stop complaining and do something about it. Call your repersentive! So I take it since Toyota has achieved so much more than the domestic’s that the rusting out frames, engine tear downs with in days of purchase, $4000 air pumps, the infamous oil sludge, the list goes on and this is the standard. Some people have to have very low expectations! Oh I almost forgot if Nissan is so great why was Dodge going to make a Truck for them? If they need a truck what does that say about what they have now? Enjoy the vehicle you bought!

  40. Hemi Power says:


    What you have said is completely true, and I totally agree with you.

    Just be warned, I would expect somebody like Mickey to come after you saying that the Americans have had the same problems, and that overall foreign cars are better quality. Yes, every brand has recalls and defects. It is unavoidable. But from my experience, the big 3 have had the least amount of problems, and are the longest lasting, and highest quality of all cars.

    So Mickey, you can go ahead and keep buying the foreign vehicles, and I hope they serve you well. Like you said before, you have the freedom to buy whatever you want if you can afford it. Sorry about any bad experiences you may have had in the past with big 3 products. You must just have had bad luck. I would encourage you to try out a domestic the next time you are in the market. They have drastically improved.

  41. Jason says:

    matt – You’ve got some facts mixed up…not sure where to start. I think the reality is you’re fiercely anti-Toyota. Good for you.

    Hemi Power – You’re right in that all trucks have problems, and I for one believe that Toyota’s pickups are as good as or better than anything on the road. Having said that, I think a Dodge is a good truck too. I also think the F150 is as good as anything on the road (maybe the best, depending on your situation). The GM trucks get my respect as well. I think that everyone should consider everything when they buy a new vehicle. My problem is that some people are simply not open to the possibility that the Tundra is the best truck for them. The reliability issues have been disappointing, but I honestly believe they’re no worse than anyone else. As Mickey would usually say, there are far fewer TSBs on the Tundra than there are on other half-tons.

  42. matt says:

    Please explain the incorrect facts. If anything Nick is in left field with his facts. First truck was not made by Nissan, research it.

    Did Mr. Toyoda not go to Washington to speak in front of Congress?

    Was Toyota fined for the way they handled safety issues/recalls?

    Did Chrysler repay the bailout, take in mind the government forgave some of the balance. (If you don’t like call your repersentive)

    Did Nissan inquire about Dodge (Chrysler) assisting in producing a truck for them, what about the Hyundai article here. Are those facts incorrect?

    Has toyota had all the issues that I listed?

    Now saying check TSB’s against different manufactures, I will follow up on that BUT how can that be uses in Toyota’s defense when its already been identified they have and do try to hide issues. Remember standing before Congress, the fine. Not a good arguement on Toyota’s half.

    So I any of this is incorrect please STATE the fact more than before!

  43. Mickey says:

    I heard GM paid their bailout back with another loan, but I never heard that Chrysler paid their’s yet. Then again I get tired of the B/S news lately. It doesn’t matter that the govt gave Chrysler a break in the amount owed. It still shows the fact you had been bailed out twice and needed a break for one of them. Matt this is strike two for Chrysler in being bailed out. You want that spelled out? The other thing Matt I’m tired of writing the same things other manufacturer’s having safety issues, recalls etc. No Nissan sold the rights of the Titan to Chrysler. Now let’s see what other manufacturer’s had to stand before congress? Need I say GM/Ford right off the back. No need to go any further because all we are doing is going tit for tat.

  44. Mickey says:

    Hemi I owned one Dodge product back in 76 and it was a Dodge Carger SE with a big block 400 in it. Had it for almost a year and traded it in. Never owned a Ram so I can’t say either way on it. As for the Tundra and Prius I have both are 07’s and since 1978 when I traded in a 74 Corona SR5. Those were the only 3 Toyota’s I owned. The rest were mixed Ford and GM’s. Even though both had issues with the vehicles I had it was the dealerships that pushed me away for good. I will not put myself through that again. If I had to I will buy a Dodge before Ford and then GM.

  45. matt says:

    Where to start? Chrysler’s bailout was reportedly paid earlier this month, research it. Chryslers supposedly required financial assistance twice, ok. I think needing some financial help is better than being a greedy company hiding safety issues. I will let you borrow a dollar if you don’t try to kill me! Do you need that spelled out for you!

    Here’s the thing about having recalls and problems. Its going to happen! So why hide them, Toyota can answer at anytime! So yes I agree every manufacture will have issues, BUT they need to be handled in a responsible manner!

    Dodge owns Titan?? What? When? I think your alttle off!

    Now for the infamous TSB. Here it is from ODI.
    09 Tundra – 3
    09 Ram 1500 ( Yhea they make more than one, pun intended) 9
    08 Tundra- 9
    08 Ram 1500- 9
    07 Tundra- 14
    07 Ram 1500- 10
    So what does this mean? Not a thing! Even if it did, who knows if the information is correct for Toyota? You know they like to keep info to themselves. This is a ignorant way to show the quailty of a vehicle and no how it is to be used!

    So you mention GM and Ford have had to stand infringement of Congress for safety issues great they can compare their stories with Toyota. That’s great I will keep that in mind when we are talking about them, we are speaking of Dodge right? So why bring up GM and Ford?

  46. Mickey says:

    Matt Chrysler bought the Titan name from Nissan do the research. Now when I do the research of Dodge paying back it’s loan to the govt will I find the same thing as GM? Did dodge make another loan to pay the govt loan back? Wasn’t last month the first month in years that Dodge wasn’t in the red for sales? That’s just an opinion of yours whether needing bailout twice versus a safety issue not being mention. Who are you to tell everyone it’s okay that our tax dollar go to Dodge whenever they need it? As far as hiding safety issues you know as well as I about manufacturer’s they all do it till they are caught. I’m sure Dodge had their day in congress also, it’s just a matter of research. Greedy company? Shouldn’t companies make a profit? Ohh yeah if you’re Dodge you can rely on the govt bailout for money instead of making a profit on vehicles people want.
    Now Matt why is it an ignorant way to show quality by looking at the recalls and TSB’s? Is it because you couldn’t prove your point? Then you can explain why they have TSB’s and recalls and how many vehicles are effected by these things. If you have no recalls and very little TSB’s then quality isn’t an issue.

  47. matt says:

    By me saying looking up TSB and recalls is a ignorant way to preceive the quailty is maybe in favor of Toyota. Look at all the recalls they have had, look up the complaints. Tumdra had a injury accident that involved the crusie control that they have a complaint about. Ram has 5 complaints with no injurys while Tundra has 34 complaints with a injury. That information was on a 2010 model on the Goverment ODI site. So with that information that means Dodge produces a far better quailty product right. I think that is a ignornant way to judge the quailty but in that case RAM wins hands down! Now as for recalls the 2010 model year Ram has 2 recalls where the same model year Tundra has 6 so by the rules of less recalls, complaints, TSB the Ram is a far more superior in quailty compared to the Tundra!

    Now for the bailout. I will post the link. I will ask you to do the same for the Titan name. I would rather bailout the auto industry rather than the credit card company’s and banks! The banks are who got us to this point. BUT since I can not change it on my own I would suggest that you voice your opinion to your state representative. End of that!

    Now if Dodge owns the Titan name for Nissan’s pick up they are making a killing on royalties. For ever Titan sold they would have to pay Dodge to use the Titan name since Dodge owns it. Now doesn’t that seem ignorant than one manufacture would pay another for a name? I think so! That why I think its BS!

  48. matt says:


    This is a example of poor quailty to some just because it is a TSB. That’s ignorant! But it works Rams wins again!! This explains why toyota owners had to be told to remove their floor mats and how to turn off their vehicle!

  49. Hemi Power says:

    One thing that I often tell people is that I’m okay with the bailouts of Chrysler and GM because they actually are using the government money to fix the problems that they have had. Don’t misunderstand what I am saying, I wish that they didn’t need to be bailed out, but if that is what it takes for them to survive, that is what needs to happen. The banks were given 10x as much money, and most of it went for bonuses. I want the big 3 to survive because they give many jobs to U.S. citizens. Yeah toyota employs 350,000 Americans, but GM employs over 2 million. If GM goes, 2 million more people jobless. Yes, the big 3 continue to make cuts almost daily, but they are doing what they need to do for survival.

    For all those that say Tundra is more American than the Ram, tundra = japanese truck, profits going to japan, headquarters in japan, CEOs in japan, and 2009 American sales: 79,385. Ram = American truck, profits going to America, headquarters in America, CEOs in America, and 2009 American sales: 177,268. I think that these numbers speak for themselves. Also, the Ram is manufactured in the united states in two locations, Warren Michigan and St. Louis Missouri. The tundra is only manufactured in San Antonio Texas. The Dodge Ram is definitely the more American truck.

    Yes, both dodge and toyota have had their equal share of problems. Just had to take my 2003 Ram 1500 in to the dealer a month ago to have the power steering pump replaced. But like Matt has said, toyota has definitely had more problems and recalls than dodge, especially in recent years (2008-). Yes, both trucks are great, and both deserve a look if you want a new truck, but the Ram is the best one for most. I’m sorry that you have had so many problems with past big 3 vehicles and dealers Mickey. Like I said before, you should give them another look and test drive them if you are looking for a new truck in the near future. I think you would find the new Ram exceptional.

    On a last note, happy Memorial day and thanks to any and all veterans out there. You are all very much appreciated!

  50. Mickey says:

    Hemi several points here to get across. NHTSA put out the American part content on Dodge. It’s dismal. The lowest of the big 3 and the big 3 is lower than the Tundra. Ram is somewhere in the 60% american/canadian part content. Also Ram has the lowest towing capabilities out of the others mentioned. Now to put you and Matt on the same line who owns Dodge/Chrylser now? You were an American company several years ago. The Germans owned you and gave up and now you’re owned by Fiat? A Fiat Ram?
    2011 Matt is the final year of the Nissan Titan. Then it will be built by Chrysler. Look at another thread on here a

  51. matt says:

    So before changing subjects where’s the info on the Dodge making the Titan and could you please provide a current link to Dodge owning the Titan name. Dodge was going to produce a Titan years ago BUT that I believe was in 2008 and fail through! So please share, your creditbility is lingering! Also TSB/Recalls no comment on that, I thought I proved a valid point of why you can’t say one vehicle is better than the other. But I was playing by the rules set before me and the RAM obviously won.

    So now are using the Goverment US/Canada parts percentage. So how can one use it to say a manufacture has more USA material in it? Did the USA and Canada merge when no one was looking? NO! So who’s to say a vehicle listed at 92% really isn’t 68% Canadian?

    Chrysler Fiat merger saying that its bad. Look at who shut down NUMMI and sent production to Canada. Wasn’t toyota saying NUMMI was too expensive to operate and they couldn’t do it, so they sent American jobs to Canada to make more of a profit. BUT after Toyota sent American jobs to Canada they all of a sudden decide to use NUMMI with Telsa. Stick it to the American working man! Chrysler was shutting down dealerships to stay afloat but has reopened some giving the American workers a job as Toyota takes American jobs to Canada, yea. Before anyone says GM left Toyota hanging at NUMMI you may wanna look at the ratio of GM vehicles where produced at NUMMI to Toyota. There for awhile all the way to the end the only vehicle GM had on that line was the matrix with a Pontiac Vibe emblem. So who really left who hanging at NUMMI, doesn’t matter now the American workers paid the price! Seems wrong doesn’t it!

    10,450 lbs is a 1500 RAMS Max towing capacity. 350lbs shy of a Tundra, but if you could really say the Tundra is only 6,700lbs behind the RAM in towing. See they make different sizes, so there is one to suit any need and we haven’t went into the 4500 or 5500!

    So if someone could back up what they are saying with facts it would be very helpful. I have done my best to provide facts, while it seems others are behind the times! Just keep it to the facts if it is possible!

  52. Mickey says:

    Computer crashed in the middle of what I was writing. The cow lasted 9 years so I’ll have to get a new hard drive for the desk top. I’m at work today so it will have to wait till tonight when I use the wife’s laptop. As for paragrapgh 2 and 3 all I’ll say is NAFTA. Your big 3 outsource to Canada and Mexico while Japan outsources to America. Now who really invests in America? About NUMMI someone asked Toyota for help. Also didn’t hear you cry when GM pulled out so your point is totally bias and anti-Toyota. When your plants shut down here in the USA I didn’t hear you complain about them. You need to watch your own backyard before someone else’s. As for towing we are comparing 1500 series that’s all. I don’t care what you can build in the above 1/2 ton range. No need for it. Also this comparison done by Jason here is on the 1500 so keep it on that okay. If you have a beef with the results you can call them out here for Jason and it will be discussed. Now you ask for facts but yet they give you facts in the top of this article and you didn’t bother to check it. So how much is your gas savings that Dodge is paying for? I don’t blame you for feeling ripped off because it did sound good at first.

  53. Mickey says:

    Another note for you Matt and Hemi. How much now is going to Fiat when you sell one of your vehicles?

  54. Mickey says:

    BTW Matt 9100lbs is what listed in the above article for towing not 10450lbs. We are talking about a 2009 Ram as per article listed above.

  55. matt says:

    Blah blah blah, where the facts on the Titan name and Dodge making 2011 Titian. Still waiting, or is it all BS? Funny how the facts are being avoided and my apologies that the HD arena is well beyond Toyota’s reach. It is evidence you don’t know what your talking about! Even playing buy your rules (less TSB/recalls=quality) and Tundra still lost! So now what Jason the TSB argument is done Ram is by far the dominate truck in comparision to the dismal Tundra!

  56. Hemi Power says:

    I give the tundra credit where credit is due (not very many places). They are not a very original truck. Dodge came out with the 5.7 Hemi in 2003, toyota brings out nearly equal 5.7 iForce in 2007. Dodge has 4.7 powertech in 1999, toyota gets 4.7 in 2000.
    The Ram tows 350lbs less than the Tundra. So what? that is hardly what I call a superior truck. The dodge carries 150lbs less than the toyota, not a very big difference. Once again, Toyota missed the bar, being the only truck maker not using a fully boxed frame.
    For those who say the tundra is faster than the Ram, you have never actually experienced how fast they are. My slightly modded 03 Ram 1500 (cold-air intake and flowmaster super 44 exhaust) does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds, and it is a quad cab long bed. The new Rams are nearly this fast. Laramie crew = 0-60 in 6.0sec, R/T= 5.6sec. New tundra 5.7 reg cab 2wd = 0-60 in 6.4sec. The only thing the tundra has better than the ram is the transmission. 6 is always better than 5.
    The new Ram is also safer (at least for 2009). 5 star crash test vs tundra 4 star. Some say the tundra has many features to help prevent crashes and keep stability, but if you do get hit, those are useless. Also, the ram too has most of these features.
    And Mickey, you said that the info is right here at the top of the page. It all is positive about the Tundra and negative about the Ram (I guess it is expected coming from a website called Tundra Headquarters). Be fair and list the problems and complaints about the Tundra too. BTW, most dodge blogs I have seen do that.
    Also, you are accusing us of being biased, but you too are guilty of this, as is this website. I guess it is impossible to be completely unbiased.
    If you take the info given on this website, the Tundra wins, but if you take the info of other websites, including motortrend, edmunds, etc, the Ram wins.
    You mentioned that the Ram uses 60% American/Canadian parts. I don’t care what Toyota claims, there is no way in Heaven or on Earth that the Tundra is made from 100% American parts and labor. Period.
    Also, last time I checked, it was a partnership between Chrysler and Fiat, not a complete sale. And I would rather buy from a company that is part American instead of entirely foreign.
    You said that Japan is outsourcing to America/ investing in America. That is just it! They don’t care what we get out of it. They don’t care that they get the profit and we go farther into debt. They are here to make money, and that is it. I really have a problem with them being able to sell their products here unrestricted, and yet we get very little, if any access into Japan and China to sell our products. Maybe they are being smart, and we need to be more like them, but that goes against the Constitution.
    So like I have said before, If buying foreign makes you happy, keep doing it. We live in the U.S. and have freedoms others don’t and we take it for granted.
    Happy Memorial Day!

    Thanks to all the veterans that served with honor to protect the freedoms we fought so long and hard to get.

  57. matt says:

    I agree hemi. Saying we are bias, I was telling them that there theroy of TSB/RECALLS=quailty was ignorant because it was a injustice to Toyota. Then I pointed out that not all TSB’s are stating a problem, but they are also informational and changes to maintenance procedures. But hey they are stubborn and think they are always right. Heres a idea, Pull your head out of the dirt! Their just proved their point of they really dont have a clue of what they are talking about! If this is their though process then that says alot for the comparison and any other comments made! Just because one vehicle has 10 TSB’s and the other has 7 TSB’s doesn’t mean a thing! But I played by their rules and the Ram won, which by the way I said it was a ignorant way to measure quailty! But im bias! Yep, They put a lot of thought in that! Atleast make sure your ignorant theory is in your benifit especially when I means nothing to begin with! But hey we are bias, BS. Just like the infamous information Mickey will not share!

  58. Jason says:

    matt – Mickey probably didn’t catch this bit of news when it came out, but you are correct – the deal between Nissan and Chrysler dissolved when Fiat bet them. There is no relationship between the Fiat Ram and the Nissan Titan.
    Also, if you’re going to say that the GVWR addendum is “evidence” of bad quality, I’ve got some bad news…that’s a requirement on ALL trucks.
    I agree that TSBs don’t prove anything. I also hope you agree that Fiat’s Ram has a lower quality rating than the Tundra according to Consumer Reports and JD Power.
    To Matt and “Hemi Power” – I think is RIDICULOUS to argue that the Ram is an American product. First of all, that company has been owned by both Daimler and now Fiat. Secondly, the Ram’s domestic content is lower than any other half-ton truck you can buy. Third, Toyota spent $1.2 billion dollars to build a plant in Texas to build Tundras…and Chrysler wasted $2.1 billion in taxpayer money to CLOSE plants across the country. Seriously – you couldn’t be more wrong.
    More to the point – there is NO SUCH THING AS AN “AMERICAN” ANYTHING. Every truck is made from parts which may or may not be assembled in the USA which may or may not have sub-parts that come from the USA which are made from raw-materials that may or may not be mined in the USA. If you think that buying a Dodge somehow makes you more “American,” you’re ignorant of the realities of our global economy.
    The ultimate irony of the “buy American” argument is that you’re typing it out on keyboards that were made in Taiwan! You’re a hypocrite the minute you turn on your made-in-China computer!!
    matt – Toyota did hide safety problems, no doubt about it. They’re going to lose as much as $10 billion in lawsuits as a direct result. I’m not saying that it’s OK, but it’s not like they’re getting a pass. As for how that impacts a person’s decision to buy a Ram or a Tundra, I don’t know. I think that, on the facts, the two trucks are both pretty good…but the Tundra has a better powertrain, better brakes, better safety, better resale value, a lower price, and at the time of this comparison the Tundra towed quite a bit more weight too. However, as the last page of the comparison says, the two trucks are very close. If you want a decked-out truck that rides great and has a lot of nice features, I don’t think there’s a better option in a half ton than a Ram with the Laramie package – that truck is NICE.
    Question for the Ram enthusiasts pissing on the Tundra: How did Chrysler increase the Ram’s towing capacity nearly 1,000 lbs between 2009 and 2010 without changing the truck? Is this a shell game? Maybe instead of tearing down the Tundra, you should be asking Fiat’s customer service team if someone made a mistake rating the truck in the first place.

  59. Jason says:

    Matt – BTW, GREAT link from Fox News showing that Chrysler-Fiat paid back $1.9 billion of their $4 billion dollar loan. Thanks, Chrysler Fiat, for paying back half the money you owed me. I guess we’ll call it even! LOL
    If you’re going to argue that Chrysler paid back their loan, at least have the decency to acknowledge they paid back only HALF the amount…too funny.

  60. Mickey says:

    I told you my desktop crashed. Now I’m on my wife’s laptop. That’s 3 different IP’s using my name on it. Ask Jason to confirm it if you like. First to start off with Matt you really showed your intelligence with your blah blah. You two know as well fiat bought chrysler but want to act like idiots here which no one will stop you. Here’s a small tidbit and I’m sure you have enough intelligence to type “google”. That’s why I called you bias. You want to play stupid when you know the outcome is bad for you. Now you would settle for a part american company. That’s a joke and a changed from your original stand on that issue. This isn’t Burger King and you can’t have it your way. Now that the two of you keep whinning we will have to send out for some cheese to go with it.

  61. Jason says:

    Matt – One last note about the TSBs…look at all the years, not just the last 2. Also, look at all the brands, not just your truck. They don’t mean a lot, but they’re not always “procedural” items like you say. The trucks are all pretty close…arguing that the Tundra is far worse than the Ram is just foolish. My point was that, if you look at the numbers, you’ll find that the Tundra is equal to or better than all the other half-tons on the market (again, you’ve got to look at the last 10 years, not the last 2).
    If you don’t want to look at TSBs, look at Consumer Reports and JD Power.

  62. matt says:

    Who brought up TSB saying the lack of them represents quailty, Mickey! Who said that was a ignorant way to JUDGE quailty, I did! TSB’S do not always mean there is a problem, hints the informational one I posted.

    Who brought up the parts content of a vehicle? MICKEY! All I said it that the all mighty parts content references the USA and Canada. With that being said how can one say well mine is more American when its based off of two different sources? Once again MICKEY brought that to the table.

    Towing capacity increase of the Ram. I don’t know? Probably because the towing capacity is how much sustained (tow daily) through out the life of the vehicle. On a good point isn’t it better to say we where wrong and you can actually tow more than we made a mistake and you have to tow less. You will have to ask Dodge. Better question, how did Tundra go from a 4 star crash rating to a 5 star rating and not change anything?

    GVWR was also brought to the by MICKEY! See a trend yet? I have now clue how it represents quailty, don’t even remember quailty and towing capacity being brought up together. If you could please point that out.

    The bailout repayment. Like I said I have NO control over it. So if you would like to say something about it that can actually do something about it call your state representative. Doesn’t matter if I agree with it or not, I can not do anything about it.

    Mickey nice link to the Chrysler Fiat merger. The information and link requested was DODGE OWNING THE TITAN NAME and DODGE MAKING THE TITAN (Jason and I agree it fail through). So could you PLEASE produce it?

    Consumer reports, and JD power says something is great? Ok does it mean they are or they paid them the moat for the rating or advertisement? Apperently it doesn’t mean a thing! Tundra recommended by both and look at all the issues, minor and major. I can throw darts at a board too, still doesn’t mean anything. Wasn’t there a article on here about CR?

    Jason, I was taking up for Toyota on the TSB. You can not judge quailty previous (tundra frames 200-2003, brake systems) or present . Funny how I’m wrong (sarcasm) and someone can’t even back up what they say. All i ask for was the information so i was informed and they wont or can not produce it.

  63. matt says:

    Jason if I’m wrong then I’m wrong but to point everything at me is not right. I understand I’m a outsider but call it as it is. I asked for links that no one can produce, I know Dodge does not own the Titan name and that Dodge was talking about making the Titan but never happened. I’m not the one who said it. All I asked for was the link to inform me if it is true. If I’m wrong I will man up and apologize. But I did not bring parts content, TSB, gvwr, up. Nothing is strictly American, I agree but bring up parts content as well it beter as some did when it doesnt say the specific American parts but US / canada is wrong. Does that mean a 60% American-CANADAN vehicle is better than a 70% American/CANADAN vehicle? Who knows who cares? It states US/Canada, CANADA. It could be 1% american and 99% Canada but people would still say well its 100 american, how do you know? As for sending production from NUMMI to Canada, the parts content should not be affect on paper but in reality its now a lot more canada. If the parts listing was for US/Mexico would have the production be sent from NUMMI to Canada or would it have been sent to Mexico for that all might made in USA stigma of the parts content listing? We will never know!

  64. matt says:

    Oh the gvwr was in reference to why a TSB’s should not have been look at for quailty that was it. It did not mean that the gvwr was in reference to quailty. The TSB states that if any modifications are preformed it will affect the GVWR, that’s all. It was a reference.

  65. Hemi Power says:

    Mickey, you just proved Matt and my point with your link: Chrysler is owned 55% by Chrysler, 20% (soon to be 35%) is owned by Fiat, and the U.S. and Canadian governments own the rest. This is clearly a partnership, not a buyout.

    Jason, you say the ultimate irony of the “Buy American” argument is that we are typing on keyboards made in Taiwan. My computer was made completely of American parts (probably not truly 100%) by my good friend in Michigan. And I know it is impossible to buy completely American products. Just had to buy a new phone, and every single one was foreign made. I buy American when possible, if not possible, I will buy foreign.

    @ Matt and Mickey: since Mickey seems unable to provide info on the ‘Chrysler’ Titan, I will. Here is a link proving the Nissan-Chrysler partnership fell through:

    Mickey, of course I would settle with a part American company over a 100% foreign company. What do you and Jason not understand about Toyota-is-a-Japanese-company-and-the-Tundra-is-a-Foreign-vehicle? I thought I would get through to you with my last post; Toyota doesn’t care what we get out of them being here, we are just another market for them to sell to. They get 100% of the profits, and it helps their economy a heck of a lot more than it helps ours. They allow us to sell very little, if anything in their country, and that sure doesn’t help us one bit. Jason, yes Chrysler was PARTNERED with, not owned by Daimler and now Fiat, but they are still based and located in the U.S. Toyota can hardly say the same thing. 2nd, like I said before, there is no way in Heaven or on Earth the Tundra is made of 100% U.S. materials. Period.

    To Jason: I think it is RIDICULOUS to argue the Tundra is an American product. Tundra= built by 100% foreign company in U.S. for no reason but to make money, 1 factory building them, in state filled with illegal immigrants (this is not intended as a racist comment, just a point). Ram = built by mainly domestic company in U.S. and it DOES largely help our economy. 2 factories building them, both larger than the tundra factory, both in more northern states with less illegal immigrants. I would guess both contain nearly the exact same amount of domestic parts. The point is, more Americans are working to build the Ram than to build the Tundra. You cannot deny it.

    Jason, according to your comparison, the Tundra has better powertrain, brakes, safety, resale value, etc. Other, more reputable sources say otherwise. I will name some if you would like.

    Bottom line, Ram vs Tundra, Ram wins. HEMI POWER!

  66. Jason says:

    matt – I’m not sure how Toyota went from 4 stars to 5. The difference is, Toyota doesn’t do the test – NHTSA does. Chrysler, on the other hand, can make their tow capacity figure any number they wish. My guess? They were losing sales because of their small towing number, so they “re-figured” some things and suddenly added 1000+ lbs of capacity. That – to me at least – is BS.
    Link regarding crash test shenanigans – https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2009/08/05/nhtsa-toyota-tundra-crash-test-results/
    I’m glad we can agree that TSBs and domestic content don’t matter. Thank you for commenting, and my apologies if I was out of line.
    Hemi Power – I would very much like to see a comparison that says the Ram has better brakes, a better powertrain, a better safety rating, and a better resale value than the Tundra. Considering that the brake distance we referenced was measured by Edmunds, that the Tundra’s transmission has an extra gear and has been recognized as “best in class” by more than one reviewer, that JD Power and KBB both agree the Tundra’s resale value is best in class, and that NHTSA and the IIHS both provide safety ratings, I think you’ll be hard-pressed to back up your claim.
    As for your “buy American” argument, I’ve addressed a lot of your points in this post from a few months ago: https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2009/08/28/buy-american-truck-hypocrisy/
    In all seriousness, buying an “American” product is a tremendous oversimplification of a very complex question. As for your argument that all the profits go to Japan, how many trucks does Toyota have to sell to recover their $1.2 billion Texas investment? Toyota is as much of an American company as Chrysler-Fiat is…and it not, they’re very close.

  67. Hemi Power says:

    Jason, you wanted a comparison saying the Ram has better brakes than the Tundra, well here you go. http://www.automoblog.net/2009.....ta-tundra/ You also mentioned that Popular Mechanics tested a Ram that stopped in 131ft vs the tundra 131ft.

    Powertrain is an easy one. The new Hemi clearly outperforms the iForce. 390hp>381hp 100% of the time. The 0-60 times show the same thing. 2010 Ram Laramie Crew = 6.0 seconds vs 2010 Tundra 5.7 reg cab 2wd in 6.4 seconds.
    The better safety rating is right here on your very own website. https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2008/11/07/2008-tundra-2009-dodge-ram-comparison-features-pricing/ 5 stars > 4 stars. As for the tundra’s new 5 star rating, according to their website, the Ram has more standard safety features and more optional safety features than any other 1/2 ton.
    I do agree that the Ram’s transmission is where it really missed the bar. 5 speeds is unacceptable for ANY fullsize truck. 6 speed >5 speed.
    Fuel economy is nearly equal, but the Ram is better.
    As for resale value, Autos.com ranks the Ram and the Tundra as equal. http://www.autos.com/autos/tru.....cks/resale
    Towing is nearly equal. 10,450 to 10,800. 350lbs is not a big concern, especially since 70% of all 1/2 ton owners never tow more than 6,000lbs.
    Payload is the same way. 1910lbs vs 2060 is about equal. I highly doubt the extra 150lbs the tundra has will be a major factor in peoples decision.
    Like you said, the Tundra really missed the bar framewise.
    So, if you take your info, the Tundra wins, but my info points to the Ram.

    As for the more American argument, anyone can put numbers and figures on a chart to prove a point. And just to point out, 0% of the profits on your chart go to the American economy. And I stand by what I said earlier. Twice as many Americans work to build the Ram vs the Tundra. The Ram is more American. Period.

  68. Jason says:

    Hemi Power – My compliments on delivering as promised. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree because:
    – The comparison you found pits a 4.6 Tundra vs. a 5.7 Ram
    – The extra 9 horsepower on the Ram does me no good because it’s missing a gear. The engine is great, but it’s half the picture.
    – Safety is tied in most respects, and a tie goes to the older truck. Also, at the time this was written we, didn’t have NHTSA or IIHS crash data. While the NHTSA results are very close, IIHS gives the Tundra a slight advantage http://www.iihs.org/ratings/summary.aspx?class=70
    – Again, at the time the comparison was written, Toyota had a clear advantage in resale. While that advantage has undoubtedly eroded in the last 6 months, I doubt it’s been enough to fall below the Ram. Unfortunately, I don’t have access to the Automotive Leasing Guide any longer, but I really doubt that the Ram’s resale is close to the Tundras. That’s not a slam, that’s just the way it’s always been. Keep in mind, 18 months ago Dodge dealers were selling new Rams for 50% off sticker…that kills resale.
    – Towing numbers were dramatically different at the time the comparison was written. As I said above, it’s odd that Dodge increased their rating without changing the vehicle.
    – I have yet to see anyone prove that any half-ton gets significantly better mileage than any other half-ton. Most of the testing I’ve seen shows they’re all about the same.
    – Payload ratings aren’t a big factor – you’ll get no argument from me on that point.
    I appreciate your perspective on the “buy American” issue, but it’s really not an argument worth having because it’s merely a difference in degree. It’s like arguing about the difference between Taco Bell and Taco Johns. While their are some differences, they’re really not that significant. A lot of Rams are built in Mexico, and a lot of Toyota’s overhead is in Japan. Dodge has more U.S. employees, but Toyota has made more U.S. investments.
    Besides, if you compare the amount of money someone “sends to Japan” when they buy a Tundra to the amount of money we send overseas every day to buy oil, it’s clear we should stop arguing and start figuring out how to stop buying so much damn foreign oil! 🙂

  69. matt says:

    “When developing the all-new 2009 Dodge Ram, the goal was to match the previous-generation Dodge Ram tow capabilities. These goals were achieved and delivered on the all-new 2009 Dodge Ram 1500,” Dodge truck spokesman Roger Benvenuti told PickupTrucks.com. “For 2010, engineers determined the Dodge Ram was capable of towing much more than previously tested. Subsequently, the tow ratings were reassessed and the 2010 Dodge Ram increased its gross combined weight rating by 1,500 pounds without any component or calibration changes to the vehicle.” Benvenuti also said Dodge truck engineers followed new testing protocols established by the Society of Automotive Engineers and a group of truck manufacturers to standardize tow testing, which we covered in late 2007.”

    A 2007 Tundra Double Cab 5.7l 4×4 vs a 2009 Dodge Ram Crew Cab 5.7l 4×4. The ram already has the odds stacked against it because the Tundra weighs less. Rams wins in stopping distance. Check the Spec sheets.


  70. Hemi Power says:

    Jason, I totally agree with your last point. We have more than enough resources here in the US, so why not use them? Iron and steel are plentiful, as is oil, and the Great Lakes provide us with plenty of fresh water. We are FAR too dependent on foreign materials, and that has to change. China has become a major economic power through all they make for us.
    I do have to say we must agree to disagree. I acknowledge that the Toyota is one heck of a truck, and is keeping up to the standards of the domestics. I guess it all comes down to personal preference, as well as a few small advantages one has over the other.
    I realize that the link I posted was comparing the Hemi Ram and the 4.6 Tundra, but I posted it for a brake comparison, and to my knowledge, the 5.7 tundra has the same brakes as the 4.6, and the Ram won. Yes the tundra is heavier, but not by much.
    As for the sudden increase in the Ram’s towing capability, Ford pulled a similar move in 2008, when it upped the F-150’s towing from 9,900lbs to 11,000lbs. I would guess Dodge noticed it had the lowest towing, and did some new tests, and then decided the Ram could handle more weight. Here is a link supporting this theory. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2.....ounds.html
    So thank you for the tough arguments supporting the Tundra. Both trucks do what trucks are made for, they just do it slightly differently. I acknowledge the Tundra’s strengths, I just find the Ram a better all around vehicle.

  71. Jason says:

    Hemi Power – Thank you as well! Hopefully, between the two of us, we’ve helped some people decide on which truck is best.

  72. matt says:

    BS about the brakes. Car and Driver has the results and even with a heavier Ram it stopped shorter than the Tundra. 2009 Ram 5.7l Crew Cab 4×4 vs 2007 Tundra Double Cab 5.7l 4×4 long term tests. Tundra curb weight was 5560lbs compared to Ram at 5680lbs. Ram new stopped at 186ft at 70-0 MPH and the same after 40,000 miles. The Tundra new stopped at 201ft at 70-0 MPH and then 191ft after 40,000 miles. Same driver in both vehicles. Check it out for yourself, Car and Driver long term report spec sheets.

  73. Jason says:

    Matt – I think the comparison sums up exactly what you’re saying – “At worst (depending upon the brake test results you choose to believe), this category is a tie.” However, keep in mind that none of these tests are measuring brake fade. You can’t deny that bigger rotors with more surface are are going to perform better while towing simply because they can dissipate more heat. I stand by my assessment on that basis along – the braking data supports the concept that they’re very similar. There’s also the question of tires…

  74. Matt says:

    I consistantly maintain 26-27 mpg on the highway with my 09 Hemi Ram.I have pictures to prove this as i’ve been doubted before. When the Tundra comes out with better performance, mileage and interior I’ll consider it. Until then i’ll continue to enjoy my Ram.

  75. Jason says:

    Matt – If it was me, I’d hold on to that Ram for as long as possible. You’re getting 8-11 mpg better fuel economy than most truck owners.

  76. Hemi Power says:


    What can I do to my truck to get that mpg?
    I have a 2003 Ram 1500 Hemi with slight mods (K&N cold air intake and Dual Magnaflow super 40’s) and I am averaging 10 city, 15 hwy. I love the power (truck dynos at 383hp and 404lb/ft), but if gas goes back up to $4 a gallon (I won’t be surprised if it does due to the oil spill), I’ll be putting in $100 dollars of gas every 5-8 days. Please share tips of either mods or driving styles to improve mpg. I do drive pretty light-footed, but when I floor it, I will literally see the gas gauge go down. So please share, and feel free to post links to pics and vids of your truck! I love the new Ram, and have considered it, but mine is still running strong, and I love it.

  77. JMS says:

    There’s NO WAY a 2003 Dodge Ram Hemi, which makes 345 HP at the crank, and about 265 HP at the rear wheels, stock, makes 383 hp and 404 lb/ft on a dyno, even with a K&N cold air intake (good for maybe 5 hp), and Dual Magnaflow’s (which might add another 5 hp, if you’re lucky)!! At MOST, the truck would make 270 rwhp!

    A Supercharger-equipped, 504 hp- at crank- 5.7L Tundra makes about 390 rwhp, the rest of the power is lost through the drivetrain, and a stock 5.7L Tundra, per edmunds.com’s review, makes 321 rwhp on the dyno. Tundra’s new 310 HP 4.6L V-8 makes about 260 rwhp on the dyno, or about the same as the 2003 to 2008 Dodge Ram 5.7 liter Hemi’s.

    I get a kick out of these (I’ll assume), young kids claiming their old (whatever it is) dynos at about nearly twice what it really dynos at. Let’s see some actual proof- ie a validated dyno run, or independent third party testing!

  78. Hemi Power says:


    Chill out dude! My cousins stock 2004 Ram Hemi got 284hp and 297lb/ft on the dyno in 2008.
    The K&N+Dual magnaflow= between 20 and 40hp more.
    Also, the dyno I went to used 2 huge fans blowing in the engine compartment to keep it cool. They said this can cause a major gain.
    I got it tested in 2006, and a month later, they were sued for faulty ratings.
    So yes, I am aware that the truck probably gets no more than 320hp, but I stand by this rating.
    However, one thing I know is not fake is the 5.3sec 0-60 (yes the truck was running on shell nitrogen enriched fuel, and the 5.3-5.8sec was done on a stopwatch, but that is what we timed it as).
    I have already been asked to post these dyno #’s on photobucket, but I don’t have a membership, so sorry if this doesn’t help, but it is the rating I’m, standing by.
    BTW, I’m 37yrs old.

  79. johnny says:

    jason “They were losing sales because of their small towing number, so they “re-figured” some things and suddenly added 1000+ lbs of capacity. That – to me at least – is BS.”

    your guess. But the government isn’t going to allow any car manufacturer to play around with towing capacity. They are huge violations.

    And adding 1000lb capacity isn’t that complicated. Stiffer shocks and suspension, different gearing and larger brakes is enough to change capacity.

  80. Hemi Power says:

    But Johnny, dodge says they didn’t change anything, so how did they do it? Follow this link for one theory. I think this is probably how.


  81. Jason says:

    Johnny – Hemi Power is correct in that there were no changes – at least not any that Dodge made public.

    Also, contrary to popular belief, there is not a set of comprehensive regulations for tow capacity. Manufacturers can put whatever number they want on the vehicle so long as they meet the braking standard and a few technical measurements. This is why the SAE felt compelled to develop their own standard.

    As for my guess on why Dodge increased the rating, I think it’s probably pretty good. I don’t know how else to explain all that extra capacity if Dodge didn’t change the truck, do you?

  82. johnny says:

    “Manufacturers can put whatever number they want on the vehicle so long as they meet the braking standard and a few technical measurements”

    so that means they are NOT putting any number they want if they need to meet braking standards.

    Can you prove dodge didn’t change the truck. Have you bothered looking up part numbers? and not thrown out “theories”

  83. Jason says:

    Johnny – Excuse me? You come on this site and drop theories left and right (all power circuits have fuses, no proof of fires, etc.) and then ask me if I’ve looked up part numbers?

    Come on. Of course I haven’t checked part numbers. If you want to do that and report back, I’ll be glad to post the results. Otherwise, I’m going to go with the PickupTrucks.com article that covered this issue pretty well: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2.....ounds.html

    You’ll note the line “Last year’s Ram with an identical configuration was only rated to tow up to 9,100 pounds,”

    If you think that the new SAE standards are unnecessary, you can learn more about them here: http://www.automobilemag.com/f.....index.html

    You’ll find that manufacturers have an awful lot of leeway under the current regs. They can’t put “any” number they want, but they don’t exactly have to prove or defend the number they do put on the truck.

    Still not hearing from you on the fuse or the fires…care to revise your remarks?

  84. johnny says:

    “Johnny – Excuse me? You come on this site and drop theories left and right (all power circuits have fuses, no proof of fires, etc.) and then ask me if I’ve looked up part numbers?”

    so what theories did i drop?
    If you have questions about fires, etc… post them in the other article we are having a discussion.

    If you want to throw out “theories” about dodge having no changes done to their suspension,brakes, and rear axle, prove it with part numbers. Otherwise, you are just making up theories.

    “Come on. Of course I haven’t checked part numbers. If you want to do that and report back, I’ll be glad to post the results. Otherwise, I’m going to go with the PickupTrucks.com article that covered this issue pretty well:”

    I don’t care about part numbers. I’m sure people that are deciding about a dodge or a toyota do care. Otherwise, you shouldn’t make “theories” that there is some conspiracy that Dodge can’t handle the extra 1000lbs. Which just makes your articles bias. Which I already noticed when I read 2 articles and both trucks tied with the Tundra. The ford winning but the article is concluded as a tie between the two trucks. so how can a truck win but also have a tie with its competitor?

    “If you think that the new SAE standards are unnecessary, you can learn more about them here: http://www.automobilemag.com/f…..index.html

    can you quote me where I question SAE standards since I’m an engineer?

    “You’ll find that manufacturers have an awful lot of leeway under the current regs. They can’t put “any” number they want, but they don’t exactly have to prove or defend the number they do put on the truck.

    they can’t put any number they want is your latest comment. Your previous comment said they CAN put any number they want.

    They do have to prove the number. So what happened to the SAE test you were so proud to paste the link to?

    Towing capacity is important for everyones safety on the road no matter what vehicle. So I should ignore the sticker on my vehicle and just haul 40 tons, because my sticker is probably fake?

    Still not hearing from you on the fuse or the fires…care to revise your remarks?”
    I don’t need to revise my remarks. You need to reread my remarks. I questioned Mark whose video you so love because of his bias views.

    If Mark(carquestions) claims in his video, there were probably fires, he should prove it. Do i care if there were fires or not. NO. But if your making a video thats suppose to be educational and not bias, provide real facts.

    Did Mark show wiring diagrams of the circuit? NO, Did Mark state he has no clue about circuit boards. YES. So how can he diagnose an electrical circuit without any electrical tools? Just like his video on the Toyota gas pedal. No electrical tools were used to test the item in question.

    Do i care what people drive. NO. but if your going to be making up theories and be bias over a car company because you feel there is a conspiracy. I’m going to inform the public with my years of experience in the field.

  85. Hemi Power says:

    Johnny, I’m a dodge guy, always have been, but I have to agree with Jason on this. Your theory about how dodge increased their rating is incorrect according to what dodge says, and the pickuptrucks.com article makes sense to me.

    Jason said that a manufacturer can put any number they want, IF the vehicle still meets braking standard and technical measurements. He then said that they can’t put any number they want, because they have to meet those requirements. This is the same thing. Read things a little more thoroughly next time.

    Nobody ever said that the towing sticker was fake. Like Jason previously stated, it is just the manufactures recommendation for the weight you should tow. If you exceed it, will the truck fall to pieces? Probably not. I have exceeded the limit on my 03 Ram Hemi several times and it still works fine. My understanding of the towing limit placed on a vehicle is that it is the greatest amount of weight that the vehicle can handle on long trips, or on an everyday basis. As someone previously said, 10,000lbs is too much for any 1/2 ton, regardless of the factory rating.

    It is impossible for anyone to not be biased. I’ll be truthful, if the Tundra was best in class everything, would the fact it’s a toyota affect my decision to buy it or not? Yes. I acknowledge its strengths, but I won’t support a foreign company if possible. Everyone who has commented on this has probably posted a biased comment. So don’t accuse others of being biased, as you are guilty of it too. Just calling someone biased is being biased.

    The comparison between the F-150 and the Tundra is a different thing altogether. I understand why you are upset, but even though the Ford won, it was a tie because of the Toyota’s older design. And it is not being completely biased because they gave the GM trucks a tie with Toyota because of their older designs. Does this mean I agree with the ties? No, but I respect the decision because I understand the reason.

  86. johnny says:

    “Johnny, I’m a dodge guy, always have been, but I have to agree with Jason on this. Your theory about how dodge increased their rating is incorrect according to what dodge says, and the pickuptrucks.com article makes sense to me.”

    I didn’t provide a theory, did I. Maybe you should reread things. I suggested for Jason to prove facts that Dodge didn’t alter tires,suspension, gearing and braking systems. According to the article he linked, it did state there was a change in gearing.

    “Jason said that a manufacturer can put any number they want, IF the vehicle still meets braking standard and technical measurements. He then said that they can’t put any number they want, because they have to meet those requirements. This is the same thing. Read things a little more thoroughly next time.”

    thats not what he stated.

    Manufacturer has to provide real numbers that is a safe limit. They can put any number they want which is below the safety threshold. There is no +/- margin. Theres only a margin within the safety threshold.

    “”Jason said that a manufacturer can put any number they want, IF the vehicle still meets braking standard and technical measurements””

    So the vehicle passes 5,000lb towing capacity. So according to you and jason. They can put 6,000lbs on the sticker. hey, it passed the 5,000lb test. Thats your logic that your arguing with me about. You should let Jason rephrase his statement.

    “It is impossible for anyone to not be biased. I’ll be truthful, if the Tundra was best in class everything, would the fact it’s a toyota affect my decision to buy it or not? Yes. I acknowledge its strengths, but I won’t support a foreign company if possible. Everyone who has commented on this has probably posted a biased comment. So don’t accuse others of being biased, as you are guilty of it too. Just calling someone biased is being biased.”

    can you support a claim that someone that rides a bicycle for a living would be bias over who would win in a F-150 and a Tunda discussion?

    Bias would be Jason saying F-150 scoring 15 points, and Tundra scoring 10 points and winning. Oh wait, I’m bias for pointing that out.

    “The comparison between the F-150 and the Tundra is a different thing altogether. I understand why you are upset, but even though the Ford won, it was a tie because of the Toyota’s older design. And it is not being completely biased because they gave the GM trucks a tie with Toyota because of their older designs. Does this mean I agree with the ties? No, but I respect the decision because I understand the reason.”

    So how can you win something and also be at tie? does this work in racing or in the olympics? It does in the special olympics, all you special people are winners.

    So whats the reason behind a tie when one scores a higher percentage? Can you explain the mathematical logic behind it? None of my university professors taught me 5>4 but it also means 5=4

  87. Jason says:

    johnny – Maybe you haven’t covered this topic in school yet, but adding a new 3.21 axle isn’t going to IMPROVE towing capacity.

    Are you sure you’re an engineer and not an engineering student?

  88. johnny says:

    what kind of an axle?
    open diff, locking? posi axle? And what was the year priors gear ratio?
    Your just like Mark, write an article with no facts.

    Everyone in my field is a student, since theres always new technologies to learn about.

    I still would like to know how 5=4. Is that toyota conspiracy theory math?

  89. Hemi Power says:

    Johnny- you came here and asked a question and Jason and I both tried our best to answer it.

    “And adding 1000lb capacity isn’t that complicated. Stiffer shocks and suspension, different gearing and larger brakes is enough to change capacity.”
    This was your comment, and both Jason and I agree that dodge claims no changes were made. We are satisfied with their explanation, and the pickuptrucks.com article supports this theory. We don’t feel a need to look up part numbers or do any other research. If you think they might have changed something, then you can look it up.

    As for the argument over what Jason. Being able to put any # as long as it meets guidelines and not being able to put any # because it meets guidelines IS the same thing. Like I said earlier: read things a little more thoroughly.

    As for the biased argument, that is my own opinion. You don’t have to agree with it if you don’t want.

    The Ford winning and still tying is Jason’s opinion. He acknowledged the Ford won, but because it was close, and the toyota’s design is older, he said it was a tie. Like I said, I understand why he did it, but I don’t agree with it. You can ask him why he says this. But my understanding isn’t that Jason is saying X>Y is the same as X=Y. I think he is saying X≥Y. =)
    (I replaced 5 with X and 4 with Y)

    So we gave our opinions, you can choose to accept them or not, but lets not argue about what someone may have said, or if dodge might have replaced something. Just be thankful we live in a country where we can actually have a choice of vehicle we buy.

  90. Jason says:

    Hemi Power – Thanks for trying to reason with johnny and explaining the middle ground.

    To no one in particular – johnny has left a series of comments on many different posts accusing me of bias, not doing my research…etc. I have no problem with being called out, but it’s clear from this person’s actions that they’re more interested in stirring things up than actually conversing.

    As a result, I have deleted most of his recent comments.

    If he leaves a comment here that is rational and balanced, I will gladly allow it to stay. If he continues to double-back on things he has said, contradict himself (see the axle ratio comments above for an example), ignore portions of my replies, and run around leaving insulting comments on the site, then his comments will continue to be deleted.

    I have invited Johnny to contact me via email to discuss his problems with this site – anyone who would like to chime in can email me directly admin@tundraheadquarters.com.


  91. john says:

    Not only is my dodge ram the most reliable truck I’ve ever owend, Its by far the most powerfull and most durable truck out there. I like how people talk about how great these import trucks are, yet you never see one older than 10years still on the road! Anyone who has brains out there would put their money towards a domestic truck backed up by a hundred years of experience and quit wasting time on these cheaply made asian toys! Not only is it a shame that these cars are allowed in northamerica but its pathedic how many american family men its putting out of work! Its time people start using there heads!!!!

  92. Jason says:

    john – Funny, but I see dozens of 20 year old “cheaply made Asian toys” crawling rocks in the Colorado mountains all the time.

    I suspect you’ll never entertain the thought, but you might want to consider the following: Your Dodge is built in Mexico by a company based in Italy. The Tundra is made by a Japanese company, but at least it’s built in TEXAS. Stop supporting Italy and Mexico and start supporting the USA! LOL

  93. […] Tundra, the second link is for a race track slip. All this adds up to a 5.68 second 0-60 mph run. 2008 Tundra vs. 2009 Dodge Ram Part One – Mechanicals | Tundra Headquarters 1/4 Mile ET: 14.121 1/4 Mile MPH: 97.640 2007 Toyota Tundra Regular Cab Short Bed 5.7 V8 1/4 mile […]

  94. annonymous says:

    beat the tundra every time with my dodge hemi and im not the only one who says that because i know a person with a dodge hemi 07 and they raced a 09 tundran and won also

  95. Hemi Power says:

    @ Annonymous:

    Not that hard to do. The Tundra’s iforce is a nice engine, but you can’t beat a hemi. The pushrod design was good due to the low end, and the new design with VVT and MDS is even better. Now if only they could bring in that 6 speed… I hear that they might be giving it a 8 speed for 2012-. I hope so, that’s the only drawback…

  96. nick says:

    REALLY? hemi power..w/cylinder-de-activation,NOT a domestic//silverado..Not domestic TUNDRA…THE ONLY DOMESTIC TRUCK FOR 2011//CAR& DRIVER-CURRENT ISSUE.As far as speed…no stock ram will come closer than 10-tuck lenghts to a 5.7/excluding the viper truck,if they even make it still.Get real..you went for cheap..and you got cheap..Hemi..all the technology of the 1960’s.zoom zoom

  97. Hemi Power says:

    really Nick. just cause its old technology doesn’t mean its bad. and just to let you know, the tundra uses technology that airplanes had during ww2. unless you have driven both, i don’t want to hear why one is better than the other. i went for quality and performance, i got quality and performance. I acknowledge the tundra’s strengths, but also note it is not the best engine out there. and i am pretty sure i have passed a 2010 tundra 5.7 by 10 carlengths with my 2003 ram hemi.

  98. Joe says:

    Lol this is old but id pay to see a hemi of any stock sort, old or current, smoke a 5.7L REG cab tundra. A stock reg cab Tundra nips at the heels of the viper truck. It does not post no 6.4+ sec 0-60s lolol. I love this stuff. Just supercharge it hush and go lol.

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