Tundra vs Sierra-Silverado Part Three: Ride, Handling, and Comfort
Jason Lancaster | Feb 18, 2008 | Comments 294
This is the third and final part of our comparison series Toyota Tundra vs Chevy Silverado GMC Sierra (read part one and part two). In this segment, we�re going to compare the two trucks in terms of ride, handling, and comfort. Just like before, we�re focused on the aspects of the trucks that are most important to a typical non-commercial user. As always, any comments (good or otherwise) are welcome.
RIDE:
GM offers a “smooth” suspension on their base model trucks, and a 1500 LS1 we drove easily rode better than the Tundra. Unfortunately, that smooth-riding suspension isn’t available on the 6.0L GM trucks with the heavy duty trailering/hauling suspension. It’s difficult to compare the suspension on a 5.7L Tundra capable of towing 10k+ lbs to the suspension of a 5.3L Sierra/Silverado capable of hauling at most 8,500 lbs. When we ride in the 6.0L, the difference is hard to detect. As we’ve said time and again, ride quality should be one of the least important factors when buying a truck. That’s not to say that ride isn’t important – it’s just that empty trucks that aren’t hauling or towing don’t tend to ride very well at all (at least when compared to a car or luxury SUV).
WINNER: GM. The Sierra and Silverado ride much nicer in the “light duty” configuration, and nearly the same in the “max trailering” configuration. Considering most people don’t buy the 6.0L, the average GM truck will ride better than the average Tundra. Of course, the average GM truck won’t be near as powerful as the average Tundra, but we already mentioned that.
HANDLING:
People often use skid-pad and slalom tests to determine objectively just how well a vehicle handles. Unfortunately, these tests have little to do with real-world truck use. Edmunds.com tested both a 2007 Tundra and a 2007 Silverado and found them to be nearly equivalent. The Tundra had a 0.69 g rating on the skidpad, the Sierra a 0.71. Slalom tests were about 55mph for the Tundra and 57mph for the Sierra, but the tester stated he/she wasn’t able to get the Tundra’s VSC system turned off, so the actual results are probably better. Turning radius is another statistic that is often compared, and the Tundra needs 44 ft to turn around, the Silverado 47 ft. No significant differences between the stats.
Driving the two trucks, the Silverado-Sierra handles quite well. Again, the 5.3 LS and the 5.3 LE, both with the smooth suspension, out-rode and out-handled the Tundra. Comparing the 6.0L GM trucks, the GMs still seem to handle a little more smoothly. Perhaps it’s the Tundra’s too-powerful steering assist, or perhaps its the fact that the GMs are a little lower to the ground, but we really liked the feel of the GM trucks. They handle quite nicely.
WINNER: GM. Handing feels better on the Sierra-Silverado than on the Tundra, even though all the statistics indicate they handle the same.
COMFORT
We understand that a lot of people out their think the �comfort� comparison is pointless�after all, you�re buying a truck right? We decided this time that we’d compare the interior of a fully-loaded Tundra CrewMax to a GMC Sierra SLT (arguably, the nicest half-ton made by GM). They both had rear DVDs, navigation, sunroofs, etc. Sitting in the front seats, the GMC felt nicer and more luxurious. Sitting in the backseat, the Tundra was roomier and definitely nicer. We’ll call it a tie, but the difference between the GM’s backseat and the Tundra’s backseat was pretty significant.
The seats themselves aren’t too different. Everyone fits in vehicles differently, but we managed to get comfortable in both trucks. One of us is 6’4″ and 260lbs, the other is 5’9″ and 180lbs, so we figure just about everyone will find a good place. Having said that, the Toyota is more comfortable the bigger you are – the seats are just bigger and wider, and the lumbar feels better too.
WINNER: GM. The two are awfully close, so close we’d call it a tie. By rule, a tie goes to the older design.
OVERALL COMPARISON WINNER:
One of the great things about today’s truck market is that there are no bad trucks…every option available (Ford, Dodge, Chevy/GMC, and Nissan) is excellent. When comparing the vehicles, it’s usually difficult to find a clear winner. Every vehicle does one thing better than everyone else. For instance, if you’re looking for a truck that rides and handles well, is affordable, offers 20mpg fuel economy, and if you don’t mind being a little slower and less powerful than some other trucks, a case can be made for the 5.3L Silverado or Sierra. On the other hand, if you need a truck that can haul and tow with the best of them, while still offering great quality and average or above-average ride, handling, interior, safety, etc., than the Tundra is the way to go. Not to mention Tundra’s $1000+ pricing advantage (which is significant).
Considering the Tundra easily beat out the Sierra-Silverado in terms of engine, transmission, brakes, safety, and pricing, narrowly beat the Sierra-Silverado in interior and exterior features, and tied or narrowly lost on the rest, the Tundra is the winner. The Tundra represents a better compromise of everything we measured in our comparison. Assuming you could only have one truck, and assuming you had a need for one with power, the Tundra is the way to go. GM needs to offer more than a 4speed automatic, upgrade their safety systems, and reduce their costs in order to pull ahead of the Toyota product.
See our other comparisons – Tundra vs. Ram and Tundra vs. F150.
Filed Under: Toyota Tundra Reviews and Comparisons
I beg to disagree about your findings that the ride doesn’t matter. I had both GM and I got the Tundra now. I give GM for the real guages with numbers and there innovative thinking for Curb View mirrors, Heated Seats, Bose speakers, and for me the idiot turn signal chime to let you know the turn signal is on. I applaud that GM allows XM to be factory installed but that’s as far as it goes. The GM interior didn’t last long before trouble arose. I had the GM for 36,000 with numerous trips to the shop. 8x replacing the headliner, both tail lights fell off, repainting both quarter panels, ABS Brake job 2x. Vibration still evident every time you brake the back end vibrates. Sunroof broke at 7,000 miles. Where Tundra beats GM especially in the sunroof/moonroof option. Back glass rolls down just like the other 4 windows. Tundra’s sunroof actually goes inside the headliner not on top of the roof. Way better turn radius, I won’t go to the engine area, Back up camera, so far at 17,000 miles I had it in the shop once to replace pass mirror because it wouldn’t auto close at 15,000 miles. You haven’t mention it but trips to the shop is what gets the customers in an uproar. What good is an LT3 Silverado when it’s in the shop constantly for it’s defects? Why does GM need to know if I own another GM product??? You can find all you want against a Tundra you won’t change my mind. Had my Crewmax since July being my first Toyota since 1976. By the way my 5.7 gets the same mpg as my 4.6 Chevy did. I get 22.5mpg at 60mph.
“By rule, a tie goes to the older design.”
Both trucks were redesigned for the ’07 model year, how are the GM twins the “older” design? Is it because they came out a couple months before the Tundra?
You forgot the part about the comparison of the Tundra recall to the Silverado truck. That 5.7L V8 could break you know!
Hey Mickey! Wait until your tailgate bends on that Tundra because your truck will flex and see how many times you have to replace it.
Check out the pictures from last year’s Texas State Fair and look at what Toyota used to haul their trailer with – a Chevy Silverado! Don’t take my word for it see for yourself:
http://jalopnik.com/cars/picku.....304526.php
Hexmate – thanks for posting that link – sorry it took so long to approve the comment (comments are held for moderation if they contain a link).
If only the Silverado towing the racing trailer were a half-ton…since it’s not, there’s not much of a point. Still, the picture is funny.
ICU8HN – Clever moniker. The answer to your question is “yes”. The Silverado debuted in August 2006 and went on sale a couple of months later. The Tundra began selling in January 2007. Close difference, but a difference none the less.
Hey Mickey! Check your tailgate for this:
“I will be getting tailgate #3 Saturday. So far the dealer has been telling me that I should use the truck as I intend to and when the tailgate begins to crack, I need to stop in so they can photograph the cracking and bending. They then open a ticket, order a new one, paint it and call me when it is ready. They then swap out the guts and badging and install the new one.”
Go to tundrasolutions.com and you can find hundreds of posts about this problem. Always carry a spare tailgate Mickey. Toyota – The Truck that is changing it all! It sure is!
Maybe a heads up on that 6 speed transmission is in order too. Check it out:
“At least ten 2007 Toyota Tundra owners at TundraSolutions.com (TS) have posted experiences of six-speed transmission anomalies that all share a common symptom. The transmission randomly rough-shifts for several seconds, making the truck feel like it’s riding on a roadside rumble strip. Hence, the problem has been given the informal name ‘rumble strip’ transmission issue.”
Hexmate – No disrespect to Tundra owners that have to deal with the “rumble” problem, but this issue is very small. If you figure it’s under-reported by a factor of 20, that would mean there are about 200 Tundras in the U.S. that have the problem. That represents .1% of the trucks sold last year – that hardly deserves a “heads up”.
Your point about tailgates is correct. However, this issue is being resolved. In and of itself it’s not going to influence the end result — the Tundra surpassed the GM product in most respects.
Easy Admin! You are getting a little defensive. Where is your data that supports your calculations? Suppose the problem is bigger than you estimated? You must consider the fact that some drivers are still trying discern what that experience means when their vehicle exhibits that condition and the blogs present a counter point to your comment. Naturally the Toyota is going to surpass everything it is rated against on this site – it’s Tundra Headquarters! Duh – go figure! Just trying to present a little balance to the information presented.
There have been allot more than 200 Tranny and Torque converters with the rumble strip issue. A very small percentage of Tundra owners even know about Tundra Solutions.
If you go through all the posts there it’s more than 20. Now throw in the cheap build of this truck with the ultra thin sheet metal and the flimsy tailgate not to mention the Engine that sounds like a diesel, you can agree that this new Tundra is definitely changing things one part at a time.
Admin – Another interesting comparison to make is the one Car & Driver magazine did last October where they pitted the Ford F150, Dodge Ram, Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan, Chevy Silverado against each other in a heads up competition. Funny they have a different opinion and result than your comparo does. In fact the Tundra comes in 3rd behind the Titan while the Silverado finishes 1st overall and by a significant margin. Must be their independent veiwpoint, but they weren’t that impressed with the Tundra. Of course they brought a little different perspective to their process because they really drove the trucks in their comparison versus looking at some stat page and pictures of the vehicles. In fact they added another element to their data – they invited 2 contractors who use these kinds of pick-ups everyday to offer their professional opinion about the trucks and validate the real world impressions of the vehicles. Just another way to balance the information so it doesn’t sound like a commercial or sales pitch.
Hexmate – Thanks for your comments. First of all, I object to your accusation. We’ve driven all three vehicles at length. Our comparison is based on our own real experience. Secondly, the Car and Driver test rated the Silverado number 1 because they felt it was the best in terms of handling. The “verdict” was that the Silverado is”A sweet-driving pickup that’s big on action, light on serious-hauler details”. We’re not exactly sure what that means, but it sounds like Car and Driver is more concerned about “sweet driving” than anything else. Hardly seems like a good standard for pickups. Incidentally, we also gave the Silverado the nod in terms of ride and handling, and we didn’t even compare a TRD Tundra to a cherry LTZ Silverado without the Z71 package (the TRD will ride MUCH rougher than a non-Z71 Chevy). If you want to talk about bias, perhaps you should address that fact with C&D.
Mike – It’s commonly accepted that problems are underreported, but the exact multiplier is uncertain. A Center for Auto Safety study in relation to GM and Ford fuel tank fires found a ratio of 4 to 1. It’s commonly believed in the web industry that only 1 in 20 people will take the time to comment or share their own experience (based on the ratio of visitors to commenters). That’s where we pulled the number from. Nonetheless, it’s fair to say we have no idea how big the problem could be. Perhaps before you talk about the Tundra’s problems, you should see the number of TSBs issued by Chevy and compare them to the Tundra…Chevy issued 122 TSBs on the 07 version of the truck in our test, Toyota only 5 TSBs on the 07 version of the Tundra we tested. Granted, many of the 122 TSBs issued weren’t applicable, but based on the sheer volume my guess is that Chevy had many more problems with their new truck than Toyota did with theirs. Perhaps this data will be included in our next comparison…
Admin – If you drove the vehicles then why were your results so different from all of the areas that Car & Driver covered on their vehicle comparison? If you had read the Car & Driver story, it is apparent you did not other than the little summary box, you would have seen they evaluated the trucks based on 4 major catagories similar to yours including the vehicle, powertrain, chassis, and experience. In the Vehicle catagory they rated driver comfort, ergonomics, rear-seat comfort, rear-seat space, bed utility, features/amenities, fit and finish, interior styling, exterior styling, rebates/discounts, as-tested price. In that catagory Tundra scored below Silverado in every segment except one and it tied on 2 of them. Under Powertrain the segments were, quarter mile acceleration, flexibility, fuel economy, engine, transmission, and the Tundra edged out the Silverado in each of those. Then under Chassis there was, performance, towing capacity, steering feel, brake feel, off-road capability, handling, ride, and the Silverado beat the Tundra in all but one of the segments. Finally under experience the 2 segments were “gotta have it” and fun to drive and the Tundra and Silverado split those. So you see their analysis was just as indepth as yours, but it included 2 independent contractors who gave their rating along with the writers. With regard to your analysis, did you use any impartial parties or maybe some owners of pick-up trucks to create your report? It lends a lot of credibility to the results. If this truck were that good there wouldn’t be a $4000 rebate/incentive on it right now.
Admin – I must have been lumped in with Mike on your response with regard to the “rumble strip” transmission issue. I see you are now waffling with regard to providing any data because you don’t have any thus the size of the problem is unknown. However, I see you have gone on the defensive and want to drag GM & Ford out into the mud with the Tundra by making accusations the Tundra only had 5 TSB’s while the Silverado had 122 TSB’s. Do we know that is a fact with regard to the Tundra seeing as how credibility is coming into question here? At least you finally admitted you have no idea how big the “rumble strip” transmission problem could be. Oh and since you are looking at things statistically, when you compare the 5 TSB’s to the 200,000 Tundra units sold that represents 2.5% while the 122 TSB’s for the 826,500 Sierra and Silverado trucks sold comes out to 1.47% – the GM trucks outperformed the Tundra again.
Hexmate – your idea of relating TSBs to total vehicles sold is interesting. But your math is wrong…the GM truck % is 0.0147, the Tundra % is 0.0025. So you’re only off by a factor of 5.9 (in the Tundra’s favor). Thanks for playing. As for me waffling, not really sure what you mean. We don’t know exactly how big the “rumble” problem is, but that doesn’t change our opinion that it’s minor. I feel 100% confident in saying that because we, unlike you, actually talk to Tundra owners every day. Based on our interactions with 100’s of Tundra owners, we can say it’s a relatively rare thing. As for C&D’s test results differing from ours, it seems like C&D liked the Silverado better in a lot of the subjective categories (like brake “feel” as opposed to actual braking distances). We placed a lot of emphasis on the things we can actually measure. We also took more of a “pass/fail” approach as opposed to C&D’s 1-10 scoring. Finally, did we involve independent contractors? No. Sorry. We don’t have the resources for that type of thing. However, if you’d like to send us $12 a year to view our website, we’ll be that much closer.
Admin – Thanks for correcting my math – I was never good at that subject
Hexmate – You continue to accuse us of bias, yet it’s quite clear from your comments your only interest is denigrating the Tundra. At least we were willing to give the GM products their due. You accuse the Toyota of having lots of problems, yet the average Silverado was 6 times more likely to have a TSB than the average Tundra. You say that our comparison is skewed, yet many of our findings coincide with the comparison done by C&D. Finally, you pull the “political office” insult out of nowhere. I’m going to guess and say that math wasn’t your only bad subject in school…you probably struggled at everything.
Thanks for commenting.
Admin – Thanks for your comments. Whoa – the truth hurts doesn
And the beat goes on – the heartbeat that is.
A petition has been launched. I find it telling that one of these people says that the Tundra owners manual actually warns owners not to drive with the gate down. In spite of this fact, Toyota sells bed extenders at its dealers for this truck. Toyota clearly knows something that they aren’t telling the owners…who have found out by losing their tailgates while going down the road, having them crack with less than 200 lbs on them and getting crunched at the corners due to excessive bed flex. Every single truck will need to be recalled to have new redesigned gates installed. Toyota has blown it with this truck, it will destroy their gleaming image of build quality within a year.
Warning! Don’t take your Tundra off road because this could happen to you! Check it out at the Utube site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....&NR=1
Consumer Reports has selected the Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Crew Cab as its top truck choice among all pickups for 2008. Imagine that!
You CHEVY people ar hilarious! How long did it take to convince yourself that just because CHEVY builds more trucks its ok for them to have more problems? Have either of you actually even drove the TUNDRA? I mean have you ever put the trucks to the test yourself? Instead of reading some article? I mean I have, and frankly I thought I broke the center console on the GMT/900 SILVERADO when I got in! See I am kinda big so im ruff on the interior of a truck. When I jumped in I put my hand on the center console to prop my self up, it just snapped off and fell over. I was crackin up! On a more serious note the truth is i pulled a 9500 lb trailer with both on a closed course. That silverado did ride nice, like they always have, in a straght line. When I hit the horsehoe turn I lost traction in both trucks( I was going about 25 mph). The difference was how quickly the TUNDRA reacted, the CHEVY totally went off track, i could not gain control and had to come to a complete stop and start over. The TUNDRA on the other hand regained its composure and without having to stop I kept it on track without knocking over a single cone. Another big difference was braking with that big trailer. I did stop a little faster in the TUNDRA but the CHEVY didnt do horrible. I just didnt like how hard i had to push the peddle on the CHEVY it took everything i had to stop that truck. The TUNDRA actually pulled the peddle to the floor for me and was much easier to stop. I mean we could mention the acceleration on the trucks, but if you have driven both you dont need a stopwatch to know the TUNDRA blows the doors off the CHEVY. We all know the turning radius is way better on the TUNDRA so we wont talk about that.
I hope I covered the most important aspects of pulling a trailer with a truck if I missed something, point it out and I will be happy to comment on anything that actually maters when towing in a REAL-LIFE situation.
Hexmate – How about addressing the reasons that we found the Tundra to be superior? You’ve never disagreed that the Tundra has a better engine, is safer, has more standard features, has a better price, and that the Tundra’s interior feels larger and more comfortable (especially in the Crew). The only “evidence” you’ve produced is repeating some anecdotes about transmission rumble, yet it’s clear that the Tundra 6 speed is superior to a GM 4 speed in terms of performance. You sight C&D as an authority, yet you’ve never explained how it’s OK for them to compare a Tundra with an off-road suspension to a GM truck without one (of course the GM would ride better – it’s supposed to). Based on your accusations directed at us, why can’t you admit C&D might be biased too? At a minimum, they made a mistake. I also find it interesting that you’ve never disagreed that the Silverado has more problems either (as supported by the TSBs, something you brought to our attention – thank you). Basically, you’ve never produced anything that refutes our key assertions. Instead, you post links to pictures and videos that show how, in one specific instance or another, the Silverado is “better”. The video you linked shows the Silverado’s better LSD, but of course, that’s a feature you have to buy on the Chevy. The Tundra provides a LSD free of charge. Incidentally, we will suggest there might be a little bias there (after all, that’s a video Chevy produced). The Consumer Reports endorsement is newsworthy for sure, but if you read up on that you’ll find it wasn’t based on a real comparison. Instead, it was based on projected reliability (a laughable concept). If you refer to our previous posts about Consumer Reports, you’ll find this is a perspective we’ve had from day one. Besides, if you do a little research, you’ll see that Consumer Reports found the Tundra to be superior to the GM product in a direct comparison just a few months ago. Thanks for commenting.
Truck Champ – Thanks for commenting. You brought up some great points. I think it’s particularly important that the Tundra stopped better and maintained control while towing (thanks to the larger brakes and superior electronics, just like we said in our comparison). It’s also interesting to point out how the GM interior broke the first time you got in it. Cheap plastic indeed.
Hexmate sorry for not replying. Been out of town for the last week. #1 How much duct tape you have for your chevy? How many recalls did chevy had? Yes I know too many to talk about along with the noted defects. Who got that Motor Trend award? Yes get your facts straight. I’m always on my tailgate along with my riding mower. I’m over 250lbs and I have yet to see any cracks. As you mention QUALITY where was the silverado on this issue? Stop laughing I know it was on the bottom of the list. Yes Ford edge out Toyota but not your GM product. Hexmate you didn’t strike a nerve, you just proved your intelligence on the matter. I’m glad they have people like you who own a GM product. It shows that most of you out there are very pissed at Toyota for knocking you off that hill you were on. Did you ever owned any other truck but Chevy? I owned a F-150, Silverado, now a Tundra. As you know your GM product was the worst along with your customer assistance. There’s no other way to mention GM’s cheap interior. I lived it for 16 months with the headliner coming down 8x. How cheap is that. Your sunroof after 7,000 miles breaks and GM says you need to lube the tracks. They were afraid to say the sunroof misaligned itself and that’s why it wouldn’t move. Lube it that’s about how much your truck is worth. Yes know it now I DO HAVE THE “NEW HEARTBEAT OF AMERICA”.
Anonymous The 06 Silverado had 2 recalls and the 122 TSB’s. Now since the 06 was the 3rd year out why are they having these problems???? Quality I guess yes LIKE A ROCK.
Forgot you GM lovers…Why did chevy call they left over 06’s and 07’s classic? Or was the 07’s were left over 06’s they couldn’t sell? You talk about the torques (rumble strip) but what about your first recall? Do you even know how to inflate your tire? Your second recall? Can you trust your power steering hose on over 127,000 trucks? Man oh Man that’s heavy one…Where’s the quality in that?
Admin I want to comment on the change of look you did for the forum. It’s very appealing. 100% better. Thaks
Hexmate Motor Trend ring a bell to you? That’s right listen to what you want. It’s obvious where you’re coming from. I was there against your imfamous Silverado and F-150. Let’s talk about the tailgate. Yes Toyota has an issue with this but you expect me to believe just putting 250lbs cause it to crack. I weigh 260lbs and I’m always on mine and to see you had to replace it a 3rd time what are you putting on yours? You are so much up GM and I’m sorry GM has the same problems and yes I went thru them. Mythbusters proved leaving your tailgate down doesn’t improve mpg. Cops don’t particular care for trucks with there tailgate down either because it blocks the view of the plate. My question is why leave the tailgate down. Personally I would have tried something different on the tailgate after the second replacement till a fix was put out. You can’t recall it because it doesn’t fit under a safety issue like the headliner chevy has. As far as TSB’s are concerned 5 out of 200,000 is way less than 122 out of 826,500. Since you’re so into GM how about bailing them out? Who lost their rears last quarter. Admin he’s stuck on C&D. For him to believe the chevy has more room than my crewmax is ludicrus. Chevy have more towing power also insane. They would need the 6.0 to do this and that’s an option. So Hexmate when you go get your Chevy call me and I will send you a free roll of duct tape.
Wow these are interesting posts! It will take a little time to respond to all of these comments, but it is good to see the Tundra boys are on the defensive – all 2 of you along with the admin, a far cry from the posts showing up out there at tundrasolutions.com. Those would be real unbiased customers who are not happy with their tailgates and they are not happy about their transmission either. Hey I didn’t start the petition nor did I write the owner
HEXMATE, Ive been patiently waiting for another excuse of why your CHEVY was outperformed again. If your going to assume I have limited driving skills you should at least give a reason for that assumption. I also notice you did not respond to your poorly designed center console or your slower, less powerful engine drivetrain combo. If you want to talk about issues, lets talk about some of the issues customers are having with their CHEVY, since you keep bringing up TUNDRASOLUTIONS.COM.
“I have really earily simular problem with 07 Silverado, after putting on some after market wheels same size as stock wheels, I began experiencing problem and thought it was rotors and or brakes but I replaced rotors and brake pads thinking it was warping, but to no avail the problem still exist’s when I press the brake pedal the whole front end of truck buck’s but steering wheel is fine, This truck has 10,000 miles on it the dealership tells me it’s the wheel but they are only guessing.”
“i have a 2007 1500 crew cab and i was out the other nite and the brakes got so hot on the front it melted the center caps off and melted the sencers one the inside of wheel which makes the traction control lite come on so i have real problems the truck has 5600 miles.. this is too soon to be having problems i wonder if my warranty covers this major problem”
“I’ve had brake and e-brake problems (soft pedal, ABS at low speeds, no e-brake etc) since 80K miles (now have 110K miles) and am about fed up with spending money and time trying to fix a faulty design with no help from the dealers or OEM. I finally posted a complaint with the NHTSA (URL below). May or may not help, but at least it lets the Fed know there is a problem with the brakes on these trucks. Good Luck!”
” Hi, I don’t know if you still come on this website but I’ve had the same problem that also results in the locking of the steering wheel. I’ve been through arbitration with GMC and the arbitrator said it was not the fault of GM. I’ve posted a newsletter that the State of Utah Department of Public Safety just put out on Nov. 1 2007. If you go to Forums-Pickups-Chev&GMC Steering problems it’s #60. I also posted to the same forum under #’s-53,54, & 57. I can’t believe so many of us are having the same problem, yet GM won’t do anything about it. I hope we can change this.”
“I
Before you get too carried away with the Tundra quality record it would be wise to take a look back at the past performance. The Associated Press announced today TOYOTA RECALLS 533 THOUSAND Tundras and Suvs for steering problems. 2005 Toyota recalls 2.2 million vehicles. 2006 Toyota recalls 766 thousand vehicles. Toyotas envolved in class action lawsuit concerning engine sluge problems. Hmmm… something about this makes the timing about all this Tundra quality hype a little premature.
Truck Champ – I think you would need some pictures of the damage you were able to reek on that Silverado console, especially since your post sounded a lot less than authentic. Oh and you can find that same stuff you posted about the Silverado at the Tundra website – very original!
This was an outstanding comment from the North American International Autoshow.
Toyota. The Japanese juggernaut failed to meet its stated (and often publicly repeated) goal for its new Tundra full-size pickup, falling short of its 200,000 sales target (196,555). Toyota is saying they made their number for all intents and purposes, and if they feel that strongly about it, we’ll give it to ’em. But they paid a steep price to save face by having to offer staggering rebates beginning last spring and running throughout the year, which were unprecedented and unheard of in scope for a brand-new vehicle. It will only get tougher for Toyota from here on out, especially since GM has an 18-24 month jump on them (at least) with their 2 Mode Hybrid Chevy Silverado pickup due out next fall.
Everytime you say something HEXMATE you open a new door. Quietly brushing off the current conversation. I have no problem getting into the quality war with you on past TOYOTAS and GM(which I will undoubtedly win), but if you read my copy/paste you will see that all comments are from 2007 SILVERADO owners. So basically What your saying is all MECHANICAL vehicles will definately have one problem or another from a consumer’s perspective, so maybe we should talk about things like performance, safety and capability. Oh thats right we have already agreed the only thing the CHEVY is better at is riding like a minivan. Congrats call all the girls and let the them know, if they want to buy a truck, SILVERADO is perfect for them!
You know if GM would only fall short 455 vehicles they would not have to offer employee pricing and 0% at the same time (summer of 06).
Admin – love your comment about Consumer Report basing their recommendation on “Projected Reliability” and calling it a “laughable concept,” but Toyota has been living off of that projection for years. Guess you can’t have it both ways now can you?
For six years by the way!
If they only knew how to market, project and sell they way TOYOTA does they may not be in the pickle they are in.
Oh sorry 3445.
CY 2007 largepickup sales UNITS %CHANGE
TOYOTA TUNDRA 196,555 +57.4
CADDILAC ESCALADE 7,967 +13.1
GMC SIERRA 208,243 -1.5
CHEVY AVALANCHE 55,550 -3.0
CHEVY SILVERADO 618,257 -3.1
I sense a trend coming? FAST!
CY 2007 Large Pickup Sales Units %Change
TOYOTA TUNDRA 196,555 +57.4%
GMC SIERRA 208,243 -1.5%
CHEVY SILVERADO 618,257 -3.1%
I sense a trend? It looks like its coming FAST!
Admin
Whats a matter HEXMATE dont want to play anymore?
Truck Champ – Yeah that’s a real trend – might seem some signifcant shift in 50 years! NOT!
Turck Champ – How big was that rebate you got on your Tundra?
Truck Champ – Guess what the 6 year string just got busted!
Touche’
DID YOU KNOW?
Tundra just one the “Top Safety Pick” From the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety)
TUNDRA was the only pickup to make this notable list. In years past, pickups were not eligible to win TSP designation because the IIHS had not started side-impact testing in that segment. TUNDRA’S standard airbag system and vehicle stability control (VSC) were major factors in the IIHS decision.
EDMUNDS.COM
“Most Significant Vehicle of the Year for 2007”
Large Pickup Award – 2007 J.D. Power & Associates Vehicle Dependibilty Study
Intellichoice.com
“most impressive engine powertrain combo ever!”
What do you mean “string got busted”?
50 years?
Where do you think your -3.1% went?
or the -1.5%
Is it safe to say those owner’s moved to TUNDRA? Maybe the rest are still trying to “discern” theirselves with what their pickup is doing when the brakes are not working?
Oh and by the way about the IIHS thing, does that sound like a leader in inovation and safety? Or just a biased opinion?
Silence is Golden!
Hey Admin is ON-STAR standard or does it require a monthly fee?
Almost forgot to comment on the rigged video. HEXMATE why didnt they show the trucks going down the ramp? lol!
HEXMATE, are you waffling?
Hexmate, Truck Champ I have that issue right in front of me of Consumer Reports. Page 8 Under Silverado Pickup. Sentence reads “Toyota outscored the Silverado in their tests. Also Hexmate why did the insurance istitute along with Consumer Reports along with Motor Trend states the safety factor in the tundra the best? Silverado wasn’t on the scale???? ALso who is in the hole on everything in the last quarter????? Onstar in itself is great to have but it’s not the safety of the truck So you can’t use that in a safety test. YES ONSTAR REQUIRES A contract after 1 year. At a cost of $275. So how much is a cell phone? I bought into onstar the second year then I couldn’t stand the truck anymore because of the constant trips into the shop. After 7500 miles you’re on your own in a GM on a brake issue. Cost me $100 the first visit and $200 the second visit. Maybe you hexmate would go for the third since I still had a vibration upon applying the ABS brakes. I was afraid they would charge me $300 for the third visit. You want to talk about quality, A 3rd year version model losing it’s tail lights on both sides because GM went cheap and took the metal clamp where the screw went thru and tighten up. NOOO GM thought just use the plastic part of the lens to hold it. Yes they state your truck the silverado did move up but why is it still way behind??? Why is it GMC and Chevy’s ESC Electronic stability Control an option on your vehicles when they are standard on the Tundra, Your curtain airbags are optional need I keep on going? Hexmate I got a rebate on the 03 F-150, 06 Silverado LT3, and the Tundra. So what’s your point on that. There is none. I’m not saying nor have you read any my posts that Toyota is number one yet. If you read my other posts you would see my best truck I owned was a 98 Silverado EXT Cab 3rd door. The cheapest model. I had it 1 day shy of 5 years. 2x in the shop. Now that said this Tundra I have now is very close to that. Tundra solutions isn’t the only club out there and yes they are a decent club but I won’t pay a dime for information you can get for free.
Getting mighty quite here except for some static from a couple of Tundra twins. Well Truck Champ – why don’t you mention the part about the 4 Star crash test results versus Silverado 5 Star? I understand why you don’t have anything to say. How about that – Toyota does a brand new truck, puts huge incentives on it and manages a meager increase over their past sub-standard pick-up truck. Impressive!
Here is some information about the less than forthright advertising Toyota does in the Tundra ads. Here are the myths about their spots that refute their claims. Maybe that is why their incentives are up.
Everyone has seen the ad where the Tundra pulls a trailer up a steep grade (a ‘see-saw’), and then barrels down hill and locks the brakes up just before the end of the ramp. A lot of people comment About how well done the spot is visually. However, here are the actual facts:
1. The V.O. at the beginning of the spot says….”It’s tough pushing 10,000 lbs up a steep grade”. Myth: Toyota would like the audience to believe the trailer is 10,000 lbs. Fact: It’s a 5,000 lb truck pulling a 5,000 lb trailer. A little slight of hand? You bet.
2. Then, on the way down the grade, the camera zooms in on the brakes as the vehicles comes to a screeching halt just prior to the end of ramp. Next time you see the ad….look for the ‘mice type’. It indicates the trailer is equipped with electric brakes. Fact….the electric brakes stop the trailer — not the truck. A little slight of hand? You bet.
3. And why does Toyota have bigger brake pads? They need them….their truck is heavier. Stopping distance between Silverado and Tundra is virtually identical. And why does Toyota have a 6 speed transmission? To improve their fuel economy….which is still 2 mpg less than Silverado.
4. And don’t forget….Tundra
Mickey – Keep checking that tailgate pal because it is going to break on you. You left out the part in CP’s report about the Tundra not getting the recommendation because of all of the reliability issues it has going on. I want to see you use that cell phone when you are out cold Mick. What is all this chatter about GM being in the hole anyways? You guys been trying to read the Wallstreet Journal again? You better learn how to read those numbers first.
Hexmate – I want to make sure I understand you. You’re saying the Silverado-Sierra is superior to the Tundra because: 1) the Tundra’s engine had a camshaft issue and it has no reliability history, therefore the Tundra’s better performance doesn’t matter. 2) The govt. crash tests on the Tundra were only 4 stars, so it’s not really safer. 3) The Tundra doesn’t have Onstar, so the options on the GM products are better. 4) There’s no way to compare the two trucks based on price because of all the package differences, therefore the price advantage doesn’t matter. 5) The fact that Tundra owners disagree with our findings on comfort and ride prove our comparison is bogus, therefore we’re wrong. 6) We don’t have the experience or resources of C&D, therefore we’re wrong. 7) We’re extremely biased, therefore we’re wrong. Does that sum up your position? I think it’s important to sum up your position before I respond, because you have a tendency to change the subject in a fairly random manner.
HEXMATE, glad you showed up again, I thought I ran you off with my less than authentic opinions. Why would the IIHS rate the TUNDRA the Top Safety Pick if it were less safe than the CHEVY?
HEXMATE, can you copy/paste the part in CD’s report where it says “TUNDRA not getting the recomendation because of all the reliability issues it has going on”. Unfortunately I dont think your going to see MICKEY on his cell phone if the tailgate brakes. He will prob drive it to the dealer to get it fixed so I see no logic in that statement. As far as the commercial goes I think its silly to even bring that up, because thats marketing and has nothing to do with the trucks. All auto manufacturers do this. For instance FORD claimed a towing capacity of 9,000 in 2006. In 2007 they claimed a 10,000lb towing capacity and did not change a thing on the truck. CHEVY did the “This is our country, this is our truck”
Here is a spec sheet from edmunds.com on the CHEVY.
Edmunds Type: Large Truck
Where Built: Canada/Mexico
EPA Class: Standard Pickup Trucks
Dimensions
Exterior
Length: 229.9 in. Width: 79.9 in.
Height: 73.7 in. Wheel Base: 143.5 in.
Ground Clearance: 9.1 in. Curb Weight: 5326 lbs.
Gross Weight: 7000 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 41.5 in. Front Hip Room: 62.5 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 65.2 in. Rear Head Room: 40.6 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 65.2 in. Rear Hip Room: 65.5 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.3 in. Rear Leg Room: 38.7 in.
Maximum Seating: 5
Performance Data
Performance
Base Number of Cylinders: 8 Base Engine Size: 5.3 liters
Base Engine Type: V8 Horsepower: 315 hp
Max Horsepower: 5200 rpm Torque: 338 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4400 rpm Maximum Payload: 1674 lbs.
Maximum Towing Capacity: 10500 lbs. Drive Type: 4WD
Turning Circle: 47.2 ft.
Fuel Data
Fuel
Fuel Tank Capacity: 26 gal.
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Automatic: : 14 mpg / 19 mpg
Range in Miles: (City/Highway)
Automatic: 364 mi. / 494 mi.
Where is the TUNDRA built?
Oh and by the way you still have not refuted any of the statements I have made, conviently changing subject once again.
I love these Chevy/Ford/Dodge vs. Tundra posts. I think many of the attributes of the Tundra are superior to the Silverado – engine, towing, safety, quality, transmission. But I will be the first to admit that a similarly spec’d Silverado has a less jarring ride than my Tundra.
Toyota focused too much on making the Tundra “near heavy-duty,” for my taste, but if I put aside the ride issue there’s no contest. The 4-speed transmission was really the deal-breaker for me. Plus the offset IIHS crash test results that are more rigorous than the government tests.
Hexmate about C/R they state they will recommend what they test so where’s the test on Chevy’s 4×4? Wasn’t done I understand. Why wasn’t chevy mention?
Also As you say from the magazine Why isn’t their a rating on the 1500 on overall safety? Page 76 in Consumer Reports look it up fella if you can read!!! Crash protection you didn’t rank also. You only ranked 3 out 5 on Accident avoidance. Why is every good thing for safety on a Chevy is an option when it’s standard on a Tundra. Of those 3 I gave you now look on page 80 and you will see where Toyota out scored you. We got a 4 on overall safety, A 5 for crash protection and like you we got a 3 on accident avoidance. Now state again where’s Chevy’s safety? Don’t come on the site with your bogus “B/S” because it shows. As far as the tailgate I don’t have a problem. As I stated before The only time I leave my tailgate down when I haul something and it’s strap to it. TRUCK CHAMP that 7,000 lbs is the same as my crewmax has on the sticker for the weight of my truck. That’s why hexmate is lost in the stopping distance. Also Hexmate where’s this reference on your crash test? As far as the dump in the 4th quarter how about the NEWS. It was put out in the local and National news. Also you got to have a product that sells my friend in order to stay out of the hole. Your company reported the loss no one else did. I guess now I got your attention and I will take one of your slogan’s too I know I got “THE NEW HEARTBEAT OF AMERICA”. Marc stated it well in his statement dated March 7th.
Marc, I couldnt agree with you more. The ride on th CHEVY is better. CHEVY had to pay a big price for that ride, like you said it is not as “heavy duty”. Another big thing they had to sacrafice was ground clearence. It is very noticeable that the CHEVY rides the lowest of all the trucks, if you ever need to go off-road in a CHEVY you have to be very careful not to rip the front bumper off. I am so glad everyone stepped up and gave honest an un-biased opinions, HEXMATE is just a basher and even if he knew the TUNDRA had the edge in an overall comparison he would never admit it. I live in DETROIT and i deal with these folks everyday.
We must not forget that just because the CHEVY rides better that doesnt mean that the TUNDRA rides bad. I have driven the other trucks and would feel comfortable putting it up against them.
Truck Champ I agree my 06 Silverado did ride good. Like you said I didn’t have to climb in like I do with the Tundra. I do like my ride in this truck too. They’re things with Chevy I do like in their instument panel. Real Guages. Not this L-H or C-H stuff. Curb View mirrors and having XM factory installed. Now as far as OnStar unless you want to pay between $200-300 a year what good is it. I had Verizon run through Onstar which was a nightmare to get cancelled. You can’t cancel Verizon at Verizon. Even though you send them the payment you have to get Onstar to cancel it. Good Luck in that. Took over 4 months and Verizon threatening you for not paying and countless calls and hearing Onstar say It’s taken care of was ridiculous. Afetr going through that mess I could care less about Onstar. I have a cell phone enough said.
Well let’s see what the Tundra Twits have been up to while we have been gone racin.
Admin – you respond to my questions and I’ll respond to yours. Talk about switching up every chance you get. Remember the focus was on bias and facts versus innuendo. You don’t want to deal with the facts and the data. What are your credentials that qualify you to dispute the C/D data?
Champ – You obviously have some reading and comprehension issues since you don’t follow any of the information in the posts so it is rather pointless to try and carry on with the discussion. Marketing? How about integrity. American made? May be made here but all the money goes back to Japan – think about it Champ!
Mickey – You obviously don’t want to hear about the flex problem so there is no point in pursuing that issue or for that matter comparing your old truck to a new truck.
Have a nice day boys and thanks for the posts!
Hexmate – get a life.
Hexmate I can’t help you that you live where the roads are just as bad as the flex problem. That’s not my problem. I don’t have it so why should I sweat it. I didn’t hear you coming to my side the 8x the headliner fell or the 2x the tail lights fell off or the abs problem. SO don’t give me your famous B/S. You want to believe the only mag that follows your ideas. The are more than one out there and the different in opinions. So why did the Farmers give Tundra the top honor? Ohh let’s not go to another mag now. One thing you will have to understand there’s a new truck in town. So sorry yours can’t be the one. If your people would build a better truck maybe I mean just maybe people would buy it. Admin hexmate can’t get a life because he’s obsessed with the fact that another truck beat out his brand.
HEXMATE- The only reason you will not respond to what I say is because of the ovewhelming evidence against you. I dont know how many times you have mentioned the C/D thing but I am over it. Either bring something new to the table or go race your slow, ugly overpriced terd i call CHEVY.
Truck Champ he can’t. Even with C/R he would still have issues. He found a mag that follows his ideas and swares by it.
Admin – You couldn’t respond to my note so you wrote that drivel message? Is that because you couldn
Hexmate – you’re tactics are called “trolling”. You’re here to denigrate and insult – nothing more. Your first comment accused us of not driving the trucks – as if we’d perform a comparison like this and NEVER drive a truck. It’s ridiculous. Next, you state that we’re biased because of our perspective. Maybe so, but considering we did a lot to bring the Tundra’s bed bounce problem to light, I think that we’re TRYING to be even handed. Maybe we could do better, but I still believe our comparison was factual. Third, you say that because we didn’t find the same results as C&D, we must be wrong. Or biased. Or unqualified. Isn’t it possible that we simply have a different opinion? Isn’t it possible that C&D might be wrong??! Heaven forbid. My qualifications are fixing and selling vehicles for about 10 years – my partner has more than 25 years of experience doing the same. I’ve owned a Silverado, and F150, and a Tundra, and I liked them all. Chevy makes a great truck (if you look at the comparison, you’ll see that we said that). I also have an engineering degree from the Colorado School of Mines, a well-known engineering school in the Rocky Mountains. No, I’m not an editor of a major magazine. I’m not an experienced race car driver. I doubt I have the knowledge or experience of a lot of people at C&D. Do you? Despite my “lack of qualifications”, I’ve managed to help create a website that people like and respect. What exactly have you done? What makes you qualified to insult me? Finally, when I try to get you to stand by your accusations, you back up faster than a crawfish. You respond with something akin to “I asked you first!” – it’s like arguing with a 2 year old. If only I had realized you don’t argue with a 2 year old 10 comments ago. There’s an hour of my life I’ll never get back. Thanks for wasting my time.
Hexmate let’s put a spin on it. Maybe you don’t have any problems and you just want to beat down a product. I can’t help it if you’re P/O at Toyota but that doesn’t mean that I have to have the same problems as you. As you note the mileage on my truck in the short time I owned it. I use my truck. If I didn’t complain about a vehicle problem why would I lose $7000 in trade in of that crap Chevy that was constantly having issues when I had it for 16 months. If I’m not right it was in the shop 18x in 16 months go figure. SO don’t give me your crap about I won’t tell the truth. As displeased I was with the Chevy there were still things I liked about it that I wish Toyota would do. Like you I wasn’t going to stick around and not complain about it. How would you like to go to 2 other dealerships besides your own and look at the same truck and see 1 out 3 at one, 2 out of 3 at the other two dealerships with the problem and they were selling them brand new with the DEFECT. Then the salesmanger tells you we have a great warranty to fix them when the customer sees the problem. In that sentence right there which I put down word for word what was told to me by the manager spells it out DEFRAUD. Knowing a defect and still selling them without disclosure of the defect is Defrauding the public. So why should I stay with a company which I went to school for and worked for when I see this. SO what if I wanted to try something New. I wanted a new start because my last 4 were very bad in vehicles I bought. I’m sorry I can’t agree with you. Just because you say doesn’t mean I have. If you don’t like your Tundra by all means get rid of it and quit complaining. I did on the chevy and Ford. If you are that serious about the problems then quit beating the brow and move on.
Admin
I am still happy that I bought a Chevrolet Silverado Z-71, almost 300,000 miles on this one and this would be my 3rd Chevrolet Truck with similar miles. Fuel pump at 100,000 other then that nothing. I will buy another one when they offer the Diesel option in the 1/2 ton. Chevy Rocks!
Oh, I forgot to mention, Consumer Reports gave the Chevy a best buy, they would not even recommend the TuRD due to the fact the Toyota had Too many issue to recommend. Chevy Rules again, as well as the North American Truck of the Year!
Well looky here! The famous Baja 500 begins today in Ensenada, CA, and one of the more interesting dirt racers discovered by our friend Mike Levine at Pickuptrucks.com is the Tundra D-Cab PreRunner from TForce Motorsports. It looks good, has ridiculously huge King off-road racing shocks, and it’s owned by former Indy 500 champ Danny Sullivan, but that’s not what makes this rally racer unique. Power for the PreRunner comes from none other than GM’s LS2 small-block. TForce crew member Matt Riggle told Levine that the team chose the 375-hp, 400 lb-ft powerplant because of its reliability, as well as its ability to run on regular Pemex gas that’s much cheaper than facing fuel.
For the record, Toyota does not sponsor team TForce or its hopped-up PreRunner, but you can imagine that choosing a GM engine over one by Toyota because of reliability isn’t exactly what the folks in Aichi, Japan like hearing.
Andrew B/S on your 300,000 miles. Especially on 3 trucks! Why get another? Andrew did you tell the silverado club you’re buying another? The question is why they won’t let you discuss any problems you may have on a silverado there? Ohh BTW how’s your safety in that truck? Ohh Not rated… Sorry if you get in an accident. Consumer Reports didn’t test your vehicle like it did the others. I have that issue. Also CR is only one organization out of many out there. I can say Motor Trend too. Hexmate old news guy and for everyone out there read the article. Toyota didn’t back Tforce Motorsport. So they went somewhere else for support. This was a smart move on that team to do coverage for their vehicle. Now WHO is IRONMAN MIKE? Need I say more Hexmate?
Here you go GM lovers.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081208/us_nm/us_gm_ad
All vehicles have their problems, but it all might be a mute comparison if by March 31st, GM cannot prove to the govt. of being able to restructure and does file for bankruptcy. Who in their right minds will buy a Chevy or GMC truck once in bankruptcy for fear of not coming out of bankruptcy and therefore, no warranty once GM cannot get out of bankruptcy. That fear of no support or repairs of GM vehicles will make GM no comparison to any other truck whether Toyota or Nissan or Ford or Dodge, etc..
If GM goes down, more will soon follow. That is the cold hard truth.
My warranty is still good…..
If GM goes down, whether you like them or not, is not a good thing. Even you Toyota fans/GM haters better hope they dont go down. If you say you don’t care, well you should really think about it. It will be an economic catastrophe. It’s not just GM employees that would be affected.
MK – You’re absolutely right. Bad things will happen to the entire industry if GM goes under…but this seems more and more like a certainty, so we might as well brace for the worst.
Jason here’s a site you got to love. Many Toyota being used here. Personally I love the Toyota truck going backwards up the hill many times. The priceless Chevy Z71 stuck.
http://videos.streetfire.net/v.....643697.htm
I have had a tundra. I now have a silverado. I will never own a tundra again.
Next time you guys go to buy a truck, look at the silverado’s option (or standard on the Z71) of the rear differential. G80 option. It is the Eaton G80 rear end that gives you posi when you need it! It is a GM only option and it is awesome. Just type G80 into youtube and see for yourself. Night and day difference.
My dad and brother just got silverados last year and they are also very happy. No Japanese vehicles in our family. Not only do we love our trucks but we are happy to drive 90% north american content trucks built buy americans.
Apparently you didn’t read the fine print either made in Mexico or Canada.
Also will you have a manufacturer next year?
Why should I and my wife use our tax dollar to save your precious Silverado when you people (GM) can’t save it.
Anon – Glad to hear you got the “north American” truck you wanted…despite the fact that the Tundra has more American content than the Silverado according to the latest Cars.com survey:
https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2008/07/28/toyota-tundra-more-american-than-silverado-and-ram/
Wow! I cannot believe the lack of respect i see on these message boards.
Know one cares if the money goes over sees to these countries that tried to destroy us?
You tube videos show the silverado is superior to the Tundra. Period!
As long as the media keeps kissing the a** of the foreign car companies people will always by them.
I noticed several times in this post were the admin. commented in favor of the tundra but not one in favor of the american models? a** kissing. go figure.
Oh for the record, i have a buick with 220,000 miles, no more than normal maintenance, a venture with 110,000 miles and and a tahoe with 150,000 that i just traded in on a silverado…no issues with any of them.
When are people going to pull their heads out of their butts and realize that being an american and buying american is good. We used to believe that once and low and behold we become the envy of the world.
But that can’t possible be right? Could it? I thought being american meant i can buy anything i want….yeah, whatever!
That mentality is what has turned this economy and this country into a joke.
jg – I can’t believe that you’ve claimed to read everything. Not only do I frequently say that GM makes a good truck (see the actual article above), but I think there’s absolutely nothing wrong with buying one. If only you could say the same. Instead, you cling to a narrow-minded and uninformed notion that the GM products are “more American” than the Tundra…despite the fact the Tundra is made in Texas and has more domestic content than the GM product. You’ll say that “all the money goes back to Japan,” but then I’ll point out that Toyota is a publicly traded company so “all the money goes to the shareholders.” Then, you’ll say that “ya, well, Toyota is still Japanese and Japanese people are getting paid.” I’ll agree, but then I’ll say that GM “made more than 25% of their truck in Mexico, so Mexicans are getting paid too.” At some point, as you type on your keyboard that was made in China, you’ll realize that “Made in America” is an anachronistic ideal. Does that about sum it up?
Where’s Hexmate? I want to ask him about his comment back on March 5th, 2008 “What is all this chatter about GM being in the hole anyways? You guys been trying to read the Wallstreet Journal again? You better learn how to read those numbers first.” If that doesn’t make you look like a fool I don’t know what does.
Jason Hexmate is still trying to figure out that the Prerunner is a Toyota body….
Jg figured a bright person as yourself would come out with something better to say. So I don’t have a choice in what’s the better product for me. I see you’re blind in one eye and can’t see out the other. You and everyone of the people who are narrow minded like you can have your bail out truck. Now I can say I saved your big3 without a choice in the matter. If you’re company was as good as you mentioned then they wouldn’t have an issue. You call it lack of respect? It’s the opposite. Look at what you wrote if that isn’t lack of respect. You fall into the typical asinine people who come to a Tundra website just to shoot off the first thing that comes out of your lips. Toyota isn’t more American built without knowing the facts.
All of you making comments are proving my point. There is no “America” left. It is all about what “I” get out of it. “what’s in it for me?” There used to be a time when people stood up for American regardless. Not anymore….
You mention that the tundra is more american built…only because there were Americans fighting for better pay…(unlike in japan were they simply work you until you die on the floor…which is a documented fact that no one that drives a toyato in the U.S. every want to talk about. 80,90, 100 hour work weeks for little pay…but hey, you got a toyota)so those numbers are wrong and quite disingenious of you to suggest other wise. Go ahead grasp on to anything to justify your case.
By the way, when any of these forgien car companies make it to a 100 years of making cars and taking care of the people who make them, then and only then can we compare the financial status of american to forgein.
By then they will know what business plan to follow because those that went before them paved the way. You already see it with the layoffs and buy-outs that toyato, nissan, and honda have engaged in.
But then again, you could work for Hyundia in Alabama were you get no benefits and you may work one day a week or five. Just depends.
Who cares about all that though, screw it “what’s in it for me?”
jg – I think you make a very valid point when you say that all people care about is themselves. The story of Wal-Mart (an “American” company as if it matters) is a great example of what you’re talking about. Wal-Mart “put the little guy out of business,” yet the only reason Wal-Mart was successful is that people quit going to the little guy because they wanted to save a dollar. Penny wise and pound foolish, right? As far as the Tundra is concerned, on one side we have the “buy American” crowd that wants to pay the UAW and the execs in Detroit obscene amounts of money to loose billions of dollars a year. On the other side, we have people who bought a truck because they like it, yet they have to defend their choice because it’s not “American.” Here’s my question to you, jg, and anyone else who thinks that buying a Tundra is bad for America: Where in the Constitution does it say “Americans have the freedom to speak, worship, and buy whatever they want..except for a truck made in the USA with a Toyota nameplate – that’s not OK.” As a follow-up, I’d like you to remove any clothing that wasn’t made in America. I guess my points are 1) Every American has the right to buy whatever they want, and everyone has to respect that choice because it’s our right. 2) If you think America is bad because people are buying goods made by foreign companies, you need to go look in the mirror. You’re a consumer, pal, and you’re wearing foreign products, typing on a foreign made keyboard, and spending currency backed by cash reserves from foreign governments. If you think otherwise, you’re living in the past. No offense, but I get tired of having to justify my fondness for a truck made in Texas just because it doesn’t say GM, Ford, or Dodge on it.
Hey JG what are your comments now that you had to be bailed out? Now you can say along with Dodge we are american government owned company.
TUNDRA KICKS BUT I JUST BOUGHT A 2010
Jason congrats on the new truck. Mines is an 07 Crewmax Limited but still looks new with 66,200 miles on it.
Jason said: “Where
Well here is another fine mess we’ve gotten ourselves into at Toyota. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has opened an investigation into reports of frame rust and corrosion problems in 2000 and 2001 Tundras similar to those that caused the Japanese auto giant to extend warranties, buy back entire trucks, or repair or replace severely rusted frames in its 1995-2000 and 2001-04 Toyota Tacoma midsize pickups last year.
You think the govt. would loan me money so I don’t go bankrupt, and layoff my wife????
Mickey said: “You think the govt. would loan me money so I don
Hexmate must we list all of GM’s debacles?????
Ahhh Hexmate…if only your brain was a fraction of the size of your mouth. I pity a man who is so often wrong that they only way he can feel good about himself is criticizing others.
Jason said: Ahhh Hexmate
Mickey said: “Hexmate must we list all of GM
Hexmate – I suppose I brought this upon myself, but I couldn’t resist pointing out just how laughably wrong you were about the GM bankruptcy. Stupid me.
Jason said: “Hexmate
Hexmate since I can’t figure out how to list my address and by all means you know it all, but questions do remain why are you here? Also I do know the number 80%. Can you say 80%. Nope, Nada, no… Especially when it comes to where your beloved GM parts come from. Or who subassembles your truck? Unions? Your GM tried to break their unions and theatened the whole country with bankruptcy if they didn’t get what they wanted.
Jason it’s okay… Hexmate went through alot of trouble to get this book written. It took me 3x and 2 cups of coffee to get through it. It just shows you that you can’t please everyone.
Mickey said: Can you say 80%. Nope, Nada, no
Hexmate while you get foot out of your mouth and learn to read you would know just on this website they have at least 3 articles on this alone with another source backing it up. You love to talk shit but it’s on you pal. Yes I grasped what you wrote. Just wasn’t intrested in reading a book just to get your point across. You like what you like and we like what we like. It doesn’t change anything. I won’t do your research for you. Do it yourself then you talk.
Also Hexmate where is your truck subassembled? Or the 25% parts come from.
Mickey said: “I won
Hexmate – Please post links to articles rather than the articles themselves. Also, why did you choose to use the same name as an obscure chess variation? http://www.chessvariants.com/h.....xmate.html
Hexmate if you are so called intelligent and read at least some of the articles that this website puts out you would know what Toyota gets for each truck sold. Also where do you think that the Tundra is made at and by whom. I guess the ones who make the engines in Alabama and assemble the truck in Texas with parts from Mississippi etc. aren’t American? The facts Jack are on this website. What you have to do is move the little arrow by utilizing your mouse for your computer is this too much or do I have to draw a picture to get you through this? Move that arrow up to where the box and the word search is. You can type what ever your heart desires and find the information. Since you claim to be the intelligent and I’m the dumb one at least I know where the info comes from. The fact is Hexmate you’re all hot air. Use your mouse and get the info. Since those are the facts maybe someone else can’t handle the truth here. Also we know GM has parts and sub assembles parts of your truck in Mexico and how do these Mexicans get paid for their work? How American is that? Again foot in mouth. I guess leather must be sweet since you seem to chew on alot of it.
Jason said: “Hexmate
Mickey said: “Also where do you think that the Tundra is made at and by whom”
Well Mickey I don’t need to prove anything you are doing a good job of doing that all by yourself. It is no secret that 20% of cost is associated with the manufacturing of the vehicle, the balance going back to the company which in Toyota’s case is headquartered in Japan. In fact all of Toyota’s profits go there whereas the American companies have their headquarters located in the U.S. so guess where their money goes? All of the manufactureres have plants located around the world and they all make components that are for their products based on the most cost effective methodology. The U.S. companies have more U.S. made content than Toyota does, but you should already know that. What is important to remember Mickey is that Toyota is based in Japan and that is where their profits go while the American companies are headquartered in the U.S., so that is where their money goes. It is pretty simple Mickey so try not to confuse the issue.
Apparently Hexmate you’re a proven simple one. Again if you bother to look it up instead of trying to push your agenda and at least put out some truth to your wonderful story…..Like I said STORY….. You don’t want to believe the 20% of your parts are made somewhere else. Also you hate to believe that some of the trucks you like are sub-assembled in Mexico. Again how much do you pay Mexico? The problem is you hate the challenge the Tundra gives you. It definitely isn’t my problem. As for the bailout given to your company that’s become everyone’s problem not by our choice. As for more US companies have more US made content than Toyota does. This maybe true but, your beloved GM and Dodge don’t used all US companies contents, hence the 20+%. Now your statement is true to a certain factor. Yes Toyota in general you are right. Now since this is a Tundra website your statement is false.
What you forget Hexmate I had an 06 Silverado EXT Cab LT3. Your top of the line truck. The worst 18 months of ownership I ever had.
Mickey said: “What you forget Hexmate I had an 06 Silverado EXT Cab LT3. Your top of the line truck. The worst 18 months of ownership I ever had.”
I didn’t forget Mickey. Want me to hook you up some of the folks who have had that same experience with a Tundra? Be happy to do that.
Mickey said: “You don
Hexmate – Good to know. Since you’re a veteran, I’ll try not to insult you as much. Still, the fact remains that you’ve left 42 comments here and not one time have you responded to a direct challenge. Mickey, Truck Champ, and myself have all asked you direct questions on multiple occasions, and each time you’ve shifted to something else. After 42 comments you’ve stood for nothing, you’ve defended nothing, and you never admit any errors, attempt to find any middle ground, etc. Sad.
Jason said: “After 42 comments you
Hexmate – 43
Jason said: Hexmate
Hexmate – You said “I have challenged, presented data, offered facts, and generally gotten nothing in return that resembles reasonable or factual rebuttals.” That’s a bald-faced lie. If that’s what you REALLY believe, I pity you.
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You said “I don
How come Hexmate you haven’t visited on this website the 3 threads that contain the facts of what was discussed? Who’s calling the kettle black?
Jason said: “Hexmate
Jason said: “I know. Every time you
Mickey said: “How come Hexmate you haven
Look at this! Another satisfied customer! Lance Knopp – Great choice I’m on my 3rd Avalanche they are great trucks, 2002, 2006 and 2007 traded my 1st one with 159000 miles no problems!!!!
I guess the other company backing the data up is wrong also right Hexmate. Who’s in denial? Now I can say Jason this is #45, 46, 47, and 48. As for your last statement all manufacturer’s have someone who’s done the mileage and still love’s that manufacturer’s vehicles. Those are opinionated so come agagin with what you’ve been stating facts.
Hexmate – I will not engage your anecdotes as evidence of anything, just like you won’t accept my qualifications. Here’s a thought – if I’m lacking in expertise, why do you keep commenting to me? If you really think so little of my opinion, why do you keep trying to argue with me?
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As for sales figures, I don’t care. If you think popular opinion is somehow synonymous with quality, I would encourage you to review our former President’s popularity ratings in 2001 and again in 2008. At one time, 93% of the US thought Bush was great. 7 years later, barely 30% of the country liked him. Just because GM manages to sell a lot of trucks, that doesn’t mean the people buying them are right. I’ll say the same thing about the best-selling Toyota Camry (I like the Ford Fusion better). Popularity does NOT equal best, so take your sales figures and rattle them off to someone else.
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By the way, Hex-mate, almost 40,000 people visited this website in the last 30 days (http://www.quantcast.com/tundraheadquarters.com), yet only YOU call me an unqualified child. Here’s a press clipping for you too – http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/63718422.html. If you look, you’ll see that you’re not quoted in that article.
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45, 46, 47, 48. Anyone want to guess Hexmate avoids all my points and changes the subject in his next comment?
Jason said: “Hexmate
Jason said: “As for sales figures, I don
Jason said: “By the way, Hex-mate, almost 40,000 people visited this website in the last 30 days (http://www.quantcast.com/tundraheadquarters.com), yet only YOU call me an unqualified child. Here
How am I doing so far Jason? Still not addressing any of your points? Don’t scurry back into that hole Jason it is unbecoming.
Mickey said: “I guess the other company backing the data up is wrong also right Hexmate. Who
Hexmate – My qualifications have been laid out pretty clearly. On March 26th, 2008 I gave you my resume. 3 days ago, I gave you a couple of links (which work just fine) that show that I have built a reasonably successful website and that I have been asked to offer a professional opinion. You can claim the links aren’t working if you want to, but they speak for themselves.
###
I think I’d also like to know what makes you qualified to argue with me – have you extensively driven and tested both a Tundra and a Silverado? I’ve been driving pickups for more than a decade (all kinds), and you don’t see me telling everyone the Silverado is a POS the way you’re pissing all over the Tundra. Chevy makes a good truck – I’ve been saying that since day one – I just think the Tundra is better because of it’s better engine, transmission, brakes, safety, and pricing (as well as some other misc. interior and exterior features).
###
You said “you think people buy a product because they want a second rate truck?” Obviously not. However, just because 1000’s of people think something is good doesn’t mean that it really is. I’m not sure what they taught YOU in school, but I learned that “everyone else is doing it” isn’t a valid argument for anything. Popularity in sales does not mean that the most popular item is best. By the way, Hexmate, if it did, your little pickup wouldn’t even come close to the big dog in sales (which is the F150).
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When I told you I wasn’t going to respond to anecdotes as evidence, you said “Well Jason it is obvious that when you are cornered you choose to retreat since you have nothing to offer in rebuttal.” Nope. The problem is that anecdotes aren’t useful evidence. Anecdotes are inherently irrefutable because they’re experiential. No matter what story you tell, I don’t know who these people are and therefore I can’t speak to their experience. Anecdotes are also very, very easy to fabricate. If you really want a “challenge,” learn how to argue intelligently without relying upon the old “I know a guy who told me that…” For all you know, the anecdotes you site as “evidence” were created by liars. You can’t prove that they’re true, can you?
###
Also, as I predicted, you’ve introduced yet ANOTHER argument in regards to why the Tundra is bad, citing the NHTSA unintended acceleration investigation and Toyota’s voluntary recall. If you want to engage me on those points, pick one of the following posts:
https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2009/09/30/biggest-floor-mat-recall-ever/
https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2009/11/16/toyota-gas-pedal-recall-computer-upgrade/
I’m happy to argue those points there, but I’m not going to accept any new arguments here. Let’s stick to the main point – the Tundra is a better truck than the Silverado: pro and con.
###
If you’ve scored any points so far, they would be the following:
1. The Tundra’s market share is sliding. This is true. Part of the reason is that Toyota was intentionally limiting production (https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2009/06/08/toyota-ramping-up-2010-tundra-production/) to reduce incentives. Part of the slide in share is that GM and Chrysler offered huge discounts on the Ram and Silverado prior to their bankruptcies. Part of this is the success of the F150. Still you are correct in that the Tundra isn’t as popular as it once was. So score one for you. Of course, please note that popularity was never cited in the original article at the top of this page.
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2. Our comparison could have been better. True – no disputing that. Everything could be better – all it takes is money. As I said before, if you’d like to help out and send us a check, I’ll gladly cash it. HOWEVER, your assertion that our limited resources means our conclusions are somehow automatically wrong is false. Our comparison matched up reasonably well with others – the C&D comparo you cited, along with this one from PickupTrucks.com (http://special-reports.pickupt.....ll-ha.html) and this one from Edmunds (http://www.insideline.com/dodg.....nation_top). You’ll note that all three comparisons had different results…and all three are from reputable automotive journals. I don’t pretend that this site is the equal to any of the other sites mentioned, but our comparison matched the others in many significant ways. Still, you are correct in that we could have done more. Socre another point for Hexmate.
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3. We’re probably a little biased. You’re VERY biased, so coming from you I can live with that. Still, that’s one more point for you.
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Here’s my problem: You present anecdotes as facts. You constantly engage in personal attacks. You refuse to admit when you’re wrong (see your comments about GM’s bankruptcy). You will not work to find middle ground.
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So, here’s my challenge to you: Try explaining why you believe the Silverado is better than the Tundra without using anecdotes (which we have no way of knowing to be true) or the old “everyone else is doing it” argument (a.k.a. sales figures). Think you can do it? While you’re at it, do you think you could be civil?
Hexmate – By the way, here’s an example of an anecdote that proves nothing: http://www.montrealgazette.com.....story.html Just because this person thinks a Tundra is better doesn’t mean it really IS. The only way we can prove which truck is better is to look at facts, figures, and data. Even then, we’re still stuck with personal preference. Surely you can see that anecdotes prove nothing…but I thought I’d demonstrate just in case.
Jason just the so-call recall on the gas pedal we all know is bogus but we also know Toyota went ahead and took a forefront on the issue. You won’t get Hexmate to agree with anything other than he likes your website. Here’s fact for you Hexmate we know it was one vehicle that crashed and killed the occupants. Another fact we know it wasn’t a factory mat that caused it. It was an a mat not designed for the car in the crash. Another fact even though this person driving was a CHP and coming from a BBQ restaurant had no idea in how to put the car in neutral. With that fact how can the manufacturer be blame for this. Now the dealership can be blamed for the wrong mat put into the car. Now have we ever seen another manufacturer jump out right away and claim a recall on mats knowing it was a mat not designed for that vehicle? You definitely won’t see GM do this. Even knowing their defects in the 06 model headliners and taillights they wouldn’t come out with one. No they rather accuse the owner for pulling down their own headliner and yes the taillights. GM already had the fix in line when I brought the truck in and had the tail light tabs replaced by small metal tabs from the older models. Another fact Hexmate since you don’t believe anything written here Who has a better resale? If you’re product is so good how come you don’t have that great GM pride smile when it comes to resale? Someone pop your bubble? As Jason put out just because you sell alot doesn’t mean you have a great product. With that kind of thinking then I guess buying a VW is better than buying a GM/Ford/Dodge/Toyota since now VW owns the market in sales.
Another one for you Hexmate I received my recall notice and the first paragraph has “Certain 2007 through 2010 model year Tundra potential floor mat interference with accelerator pedal safety recall campaign (Interim Notice)”. Problem is the word “Certain”, not all. Also you can look at the word potential too. Toyota knows this is bull but worded it to cover what was needed.
Jason said: “I gave you a couple of links (which work just fine)”
Here you go Jason. Let’s start by testing out your credibility with this link that you put up:
http://www.quantcast.com/tundraheadquarters.com)
Jason said: “I think I
Hexmate – Seriously? Have you ever in your life seen a link that ends with a “)” ?! If your browser adds that on by itself (mine does not, but I’m using Firefox and you probably aren’t), then take your fingers, put them on the keys, and TYPE the link in.
http://www.quantcast.com/tundraheadquarters.com
###
You really think that’s some sort of credibility test? It’s not my fault you and your browser don’t know what a link should look like.
Hexmate – Fair enough. You’re 100% correct that I have not offered proof as to my statement that “have you extensively driven and tested both a Tundra and a Silverado? I
Jason, Hexmate is a wanna be. He just wants to argue with you. I had no problem with the link but I guess I’m a little more educated on the computer than he is. You know the saying Jason “Garbage in Garbage out”. You will not satisfiey him because we took his Wheaties.
Jason said:
Jason said:
You said
Jason said:
Jason said: “When I told you I wasn
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said:
Hexmate – In order:
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1. I’m quoted as a source in the article on the frame rust. As for the web stats, you can make what you want from them. At least now you’ve acknowledged that I’m good at something. Keep in mind that I’ve only been a professional web marketer for 3 years….if THIS is what I’ve managed to accomplish in 3 short years, imagine what my 10 years of auto experience were like. 🙂
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2. You call me “sophmoric” and say that your 40 years of experience beats my 10. Am I to understand you’ve been selling, fixing, driving, testing, and/or critically evaluating vehicles for all 40 of these years? When did you find time to fly helicopters in Vietnam?
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3. Follow-up: Please tell me where I can find articles that you’ve published, journalists that have cited you as a source, etc. I’d love to see them.
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4. You accuse me of using anecdotes to prove MY points, yet the comparison that was written nearly 2 years ago does a pretty good job of explaining why one truck was better than the other. What anecdotal evidence did we rely upon to show the Tundra had more power, a better transmission, better safety, and is a better value?
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5. Here are some more gracious comments about the Silverado “One of the great things about today
Jason #1 hit the spot right on….. As for #2, I guess I can say the ame as Hexmate with 40 years. #3 I’ll wait for the response/excuse he has alot of them. #4 is right on also. #5 He’s waiting for you to do like Consumer Reports did give him a top rating without testing the GM truck. #6 Justin would have a field day with Hexmate on that. #7 & 8 are about the same I did find #8 funny but you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Also for #8 he forgot how the Union would do for GM at their plant if this happened. #9 all you have to do is either go visit or watch the commercials and see what deals are going down. I’m not sure but why is it that Ford and GM have to use big names to help sell their stuff? But Hexmate can you say you owned all 3 Ford, GM, and Toyota in a 4 year time span? So having a test drive is about as far as you went. I owned and drove them so I can tell you exactly about each one of them. Yes that’s an anecdote on my case. But I actually owned them you haven’t. I dealt with the issues with each at the customer service. I can tell you which ones took you for a ride. Yes that’s anecdotal. I can give Ford & Toyota at least didn’t ask me if I owned another vehicle from that manufacturer.
Again I ask HEXMATE who has a better resale??????? You see selling so many doesn’t make the best truck out there. Could it be that it’s the cheapest truck out there? Hence why the resale isn’t that good? Now if your truck is so good why didn’t Consumer Reports pick the Silverado???
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said: 1. I
Jason said: “3. Follow-up: Please tell me where I can find articles that you
Jason said:
Hexmate – Sounds like you’re admitting that you’re very biased. That’s a big step for you – congrats.
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You haven’t established bupkis. You show me ONE anecdote used to evaluate the Tundra vs the Silverado in the comparison that we wrote.
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As for the BK, it has nothing to do with the article…but everything to do with your credibility. Back on March 5th, 2008 you said
Jason said: “6. Your info on sales figures is incorrect. If you want to add Sierra and Silverado together, be my guest. Of course, if you do that, you should probably allow Ford to merge all their truck lines as well. Either way, Ford comes out on top. You can read up on the facts here (by the way, you should have done that BEFORE you told me I was an idiot).”
Let
Jason said:
8. Only you, Hexmate, would argue with me when I
Jason said: “5. Here are some more gracious comments about the Silverado
Jason said:
9. As for my claim that Tundra incentives were lower than those offered by GM and Chrysler, I can
Jason said:
Jason said: “As for the BK, it has nothing to do with the article
Jason said:
Follow-up: Did your lifetime of experience include financial analysis? If not, what made you feel so confident to tell me that I didn
Hexmate – Your sales data is old. The AutoBlog link is from July and it cited an older version of the PickupTrucks.com article that I linked to. The WSJ data comes from MotorIntelligence, which places SUVs, Minivans, and Trucks into the “light truck” category. If you allow GM to add Sierra and Silverado together, they outsell the F150. They have for a long time. If you add all the F-series to all of the GM trucks, Ford wins. They have for a long time. Although, to be fair, the difference is as pronounced as I made it sound. Again, read this post for the most current numbers – http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2.....-2009.html
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So, at the end of the day, you find that our entire comparison is subjective, just one big anecdote? First of all, EVERY comparison is somewhat subjective. C&D, Edmunds, PickupTrucks.com, they all came up with different results. Still, when it comes down to you and your argument, you have yet to state how the Silverado outperforms the Tundra in terms of engine, transmission, safety, superior brakes, pricing, larger interior, etc. You say that the comparison is nothing but anecdotes, but I think you need to re-read it. The Tundra does have a lower price and better resale value. The IIHS rated the Tundra a top-pick while rating the Silverado marginal. The Tundra’s standard feature list is longer, it has a 6 speed transmission (more than than 4), more performance, bigger brakes that stop the truck better (verified by testing), etc. You have never addressed these facts, and I suspect you never will. Doing so would unravel your argument. Instead, you’ll attack my credibility and experience, produce anecdotes you cut and paste from popular Tundra forums, and then gloss over the facts with sales figures.
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I’m so disappointed. Your statements about GM’s bankruptcy in March 08′ were incredibly incorrect, and you STILL refuse to acknowledge it. If you were an astute observer of the auto industry, you would know that people were predicting a GM bankruptcy back in 2003. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03.....-ford.html
You said that “You better learn how to read those numbers first,” which – to me at least – sounds a lot like a person who thinks they know something that I don’t. As if to say our predictions were wrong because we don’t know how to read.
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The most pitiful aspect is that you won’t admit you were unbelievably wrong about your statement. When challenged in October, you said GM was “forced.” When challenged just now, you said “this whole commentary makes no sense. The timelines about who said, he said, they said, is so jumbled you can
Jason said: “The proof that the Tundra is better is very straightforward (see the article above). I
Jason said: “Experience: 40 years is more than 10, but it sounds like you have no credentials as an auto tester or critic.”
LOL! I have probably forgotten more than you’ll ever know about the subject.
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said: “Hexmate
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said:
More bad news from Toyota Jason. The pundits don’t even need to speculate on Toyota is having – they admitting it.
The big danger for Toyota isn’t the cost of the massive U.S. recall to replace gas pedals, but instead shrinking income from the surging yen, a top executive said today.
Toyota Motor Corp. Executive Vice President Yukitoshi Funo acknowledged the cost was considerable for replacing gas pedals on about 4 million vehicles to prevent a problem of floor mats getting stuck and possibly causing sudden acceleration.
The recall, announced last week, was Toyota’s largest in the U.S.
But Funo shrugged that off, noting that the expense was dwarfed by other costs such as incentives and advertising.
“The effect on our business is not so big,” he said at Toyota’s Tokyo office, while declining to give a specific number. “It’s not the factor that determines whether we stay in the black or not.”
Funo, in contrast, was visibly alarmed by the recent surge of the yen. The dollar fell to a 14-year low of 84.81 last week, although it has recovered moderately to about 88 yen.
He said Toyota faced tough times when the dollar was trading at about 90 yen, but things were far worse at near 85 yen.
More woes for Toyota Jason.
Toyota Gets Stuck in a Pair of Ruts
While a strengthening yen eats up profits, the carmaker’s reputation for quality is taking a hit
Tokyo
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said:
Jason said:
Hexmate what shows here is you love this site because you’re always here. Other than you being over 55 what part of experience you have yourself as far as testing? What degree you have? Where you work at that proves you to be a renown tester? If you are taking just your driving experience only which is what you’re doing than you’re no better than anyone else here. You haven’t stated where your credentials are from? Jason did state what he did or how convienent you forget. Trying to discredit Jason and what he put’s out just shows you’re nothing but a sore loser (wannabe). How about getting your own website and devoted to that lost and 2/3rds partially made american product. To start off with also to show your ignorance McDoanlds yes is a resturant but listed as a fast food restaurant where a local steak house doesn’t compare. Whether sales figures indicates quality you would take a restaurant like Outback to Chili’s or Applebees. Only an idiot would try to compare what you put down. As far as data there Hexmate the same to you. You don’t want to read but what you want to. Hexmate do what you do best and keep blowing that hot air. Maybe you can hold back a few cold fronts through the country.
So why did Toyota take the GIFT from Japan? Gift must be Japanese for BAILOUT! You and I know that IF Toyota could have been ELIGABLE for the bailout they would have been there. Too bad the US doesn’t deal in YEN! There is a reason why the world economics is centered around the US. Advice to Toyota keep trying one day you just may get it right, start with a STRONG frame and be sure to RUST PROOF IT!
Hexmate – Stop wasting of my time. Read the sales data. Bust out a calculator and do the math. Just like your assertion that GM was “forced” into bankruptcy, this sales data argument is a fantastic example of your inability to admit your mistakes as well as your profound lack of reason. Speaking of GM, I shouldn’t have to explain this to you, but when a company runs out of cash and they owe lots of money, BK is the only option. Therefore, please explain how GM was “forced” to file when the CEO said they were about to run out of cash back in Nov. 08′. http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/0...../index.htm
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Hexmate, what manufacturer did you build cars and trucks for? I’m guessing that a guy who lives in McCotter’s Michigan and drives a 00′ Vette is probably a former GM employee. Are you reluctant to admit GM is a failed company because your pension plan went down the tubes, or is it because you helped drive them into failure? I hope for your sake that you were just a factory worker during your GM career…if you were one of the people that helped “lead” GM, your lack of qualifications speak for themselves. http://www.smokinvette.com/cor.....php?u=2489
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Of course, if you were in charge of the boiler at a GM plant, that might explain why you have so much trouble with sales data and simple math! LOL! Please tell me what you did for GM for decades because I think it would be really enlightening.
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The best example of your foolishness is this comment “Jason you don
Apparently you must like Toyota there anonymous since you visit this site quite often. You know I don’t particularly care for GM or Ford from my past dealings with them but do you see me visit their sites just to give them a bad time? No I don’t because I have better things to do and apparently you’re pissed off at your domestic since you don’t give them the time of day on their sites. Since you and Hexmate which is probably the same have nothing better to do and just like a spoiled child this will be the last time you will get a reply from me. You know I can bring in the domestic issues also like the wonderful GM windshield washer debacle or Ford’s constant recalls with cruise control people don’t fix. This can go on and on but I will let it end here and now.
Jason said: Hexmate
Mickey said: “Hexmate what shows here is you love this site because you
Anonymous said: “So why did Toyota take the GIFT from Japan?”
Excellen point – wish I had said that.
Jason said: “Hexmate, what manufacturer did you build cars and trucks for? ”
Still do Jason – and I love every minute of it. Let’s just say the manufacturer is still number one in the USA!
Jason said: “Are you reluctant to admit GM is a failed company because your pension plan went down the tubes”
Actually Jason GM is not a failed company, outselling the competition, and my pension plan is just fine. It is very healthy again as a matter of fact. How’s yours?
Jason said: “Hexmate, what manufacturer did you build cars and trucks for? I
Jason said: “Of course, if you were in charge of the boiler at a GM plant, that might explain why you have so much trouble with sales data and simple math! LOL! Please tell me what you did for GM for decades because I think it would be really enlightening”
Jason I told you. You have reading problems too? Maybe you should get a tutor.
Jason said: “Here
Jason said:” Is retirement from the plant a little boring, hexmate? Don
Jason said: “As you have undoubtedly realized, I
Jason – The big 3 have 91% of the market! Man you guys have a lot work to do. You better crank up this website man and start selling trucks instead of counting hits – you are losing ground big time! Maybe you guys need to get passionate about your business because right now you guys have the passion of a dead fish.
Jason now make sure you go surfing for Hexmate hits on the web today – after all you don’t want to miss something I might have said just in case you can use it to smear me. WHAT A CHEAP SHOT ARTIST! Problem with that Jason is Vietnam vets were smeared by the media and some of the public when we came home so we learned to deal with that crap a long time ago. You see you fit right in with the media Jason. Bobby McBride a Crew Chief from the 128th Assault Helicopter Company had a whole list of things he wrote about what we learned as helicopter crew members in Vietnam. Number 65 was: “Do not fear the enemy, for your enemy can only take your life. It is far better that you fear the media, for they will steal your HONOR!” Excellent words to remember when dealing with the likes of you and your ilk.
Hexmate – So the truth comes out…kind of. You’re a GM employee, but you still haven’t told us exactly what your job description is. I hope for your sake you’re not one of the management geniuses that lead GM into bankruptcy.
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Still, you waste my time. If you bothered to read all my comments on sales figures, you would see that we’re saying the exact same thing.
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Just so we’re clear: bankruptcy + government bailout = failed company. Deal with it.
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Cool Vette – did you see this news? http://www.autoweek.com/articl...../912299996 Roof panels may blow off – sounds awesome.
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Final thought: When a GM employee says our review of their truck is biased, I take that as a sign that we’re doing a good job. Thank you.
Jason said: “Still, you waste my time. If you bothered to read all my comments on sales figures, you would see that we
Jason said: “Cool Vette
Jason said: “Just so we
Jason said: “Hexmate
Jason said: “Still, you waste my time.”
Turnabout is fair play Jason!
Jason said: “Just so we
Wow Hexmate – you responded to “Just so we
Jason said: “Final thought: When a GM employee says our review of their truck is biased, I take that as a sign that we
Jason said:Wow Hexmate
Jason said: “As a member of the team that led GM to fail I would expect you to deny the facts. Great work by the way
Hexmate – LOL – you kill me. You still cling to the notion that GM was somehow forced by the government…silly. You MUST be one of the higher ups. Congrats on your great stewardship of GM, “the biggest industrial collapse in US history.” http://www.guardian.co.uk/busi.....chapter-11
Can you really rely on this comparison report,the heading says TUNDRA HEADQUARTERS not GMC HEADQURTERS.I expected the imports to twist the story to their advantage.
Surprise,surprise Dodge Ram truck of the years again.
George – that’s definitely what happened. We made up the fact that the Tundra has more power, a better transmission, more safety equipment, and better brakes. Oh wait – we didn’t.
Jason said: “Hexmate
The Toyota sudden acceleration After Action casualty report from the Wall Street Journal. “A Massachusetts-based safety research firm has identified 2,274 incidents of sudden unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles causing 275 crashes and at least 18 fatalities since 1999.” Not good.
I wonder how this is going to effect Toyota truck sales? If only the dealer had trained the drivers to know what to do in the event of a sudden acceleration incident. Hmmm, well I gotta go shuttle some Toyota owners to work.
Jason said: “George
Hexmate – Still waiting for you to admit you’re part of the GM management team that helped lead the company into bankruptcy. For a guy that helped to kill a multi-billion dollar company, you sure do have a lot of free time on your hands.
BTW, is the roof on your Vette where it’s supposed to be, or on the side of the road somewhere?
hahahha the roof flew the coupe. Jason you forgot that Hexmate is the only one here that reads his owners manual all the way through.
Jason said: “Hexmate
Jason said: “BTW, is the roof on your Vette where it
Mickey said: “hahahha the roof flew the coupe. Jason you forgot that Hexmate is the only one here that reads his owners manual all the way through”
Make sure your wear your helmet, got your seat belt fastened and you have taken the training course to handle unintended acceleration Mickey when you are driving that Toyota. You never know when all that stuff will come in handy.
As Toyota Motor Corp. scrambles to contain its sudden-acceleration crisis, another potential blow to the automaker’s credibility is lurking in the form of a former Toyota attorney who is accusing the automaker in federal court of concealing safety issues from the public.
Toyota lied so people died. Hmm… this does not bode well for Toyota.
Federal regulators have launched an inquiry into whether engine electronics caused vehicles to accelerate unexpectedly as legislators and experts on Tuesday cast doubt on Toyota’s explanation of its “runaway cars.” The new probe reopened a controversy that seemed to be waning earlier this week, after a Toyota Motor executive went on national television to say a fix was on the way. Several congressmen questioned the company’s assurances Tuesday, and new data showed the Japanese auto giant’s sales in January falling to their lowest level in 11 years. “We’re not finished with Toyota,” Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood warned. The latest examination by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration could address years of complaints regarding electronic throttle control, the computerized gas pedal systems that now operate in most cars. The government’s review will look at the electronics systems across all manufacturers as well as the possibility that engine operation could be disrupted by electromagnetic interference caused by power lines or other sources.
Uh oh! Now you got Joan mad. “It really appears that there is a problem in the electronics,” said former NHTSA administrator Joan Claybrook. “There have been incidents of acceleration when the floor mats were already taken out.” Well that could be extremely detrimental to Toyota.
Hexmate – Your tenacity is impressive, but at the end of the day the truth goes like this: GM was a failed company, and you claim to be a GM employee. When you’re ready to admit your role in GM’s failure (or admit that you had no role, which is to say you’re just some guy who works at the plant), we can talk again. Until you’re ready to come clean about what you do for GM and how much you did or didn’t influence GM’s path to bankruptcy, I’ve got nothing to say to you.
##
You can’t act like you’re an expert on all things automotive, then turn around and hide your job description. Fess up – admit what you do for a living at Government Motors.
What gets me Jason that cadillac got away with the sticking gas pedal. Ford gets away with the brake issue on their Hybrid cars but yet the govt is going for the jugular on Toyota. Makes you wonder since the govt owns GM what’s the real agenda here. Also Hexmate if Joan was so worried about these pedals why she didn’t do anything when she was there? Also why did NHTSA sign off on Toyota’s fix on the pedal and the govt is till going for the jugular? You bring up the mass hysteria guy Lahood. Like you stated there Hexmate your roof is good on your vette, well my pedal has no issue. The same there big guy. Hexmate when are you going to realize that GM was their own undoing. Since when the govt can get anything right much less make GM go into bankruptcy.
Uh oh! More trouble for Toyota. NHTSA has said it will investigate whether Toyota’s electronic throttle control system could be part of the problem. Toyota has said it found no evidence of any safety problems beyond those covered by recalls under way. This will probably result in the largest liability ever to be extracted by the legal system. This might send Toyota into bankruptcy.
Jason said: “GM was a failed company, and you claim to be a GM employee. When you
Jason said: “You can
Mickey said: “What gets me Jason that cadillac got away with the sticking gas pedal. Ford gets away with the brake issue on their Hybrid cars but yet the govt is going for the jugular on Toyota.”
Got some data on this one Mickey or are you just shooting from the hip again? Looks like Toyota has so many recall issues coming, brakes, mats, pedals, electronics, and the government may have to shut them down again. They better put Mr. Toyoda on suicide watch – hara-kiri is a common occurrence in Japan when one is trying to account for their honor. You should be careful Mickey because the source of the electronic problem has not been determined yet and you could become a kamikaze statistic.
Man you couldn’t make this stuff up! Toyota has so far ruled out its electronic “drive-by-wire” throttle system as a cause of the unintended acceleration complaints filed by consumers, and instead identified mechanical issues as the answer to the problems. Toyota introduced the electronic throttle control to some models in 1998 and widened its use with the 2002 model year. “Simply, Toyota’s entire argument is: our system cannot fail. And, if the system cannot fail, the fault lies elsewhere,” the report said. Kane said on Sunday there is no one fix, or one answer to the complex issues facing Toyota. “There are a multitude of different problems,” Kane said. “We have a number of makes and models and different issues are occurring, all resulting in one thing and that’s unintended acceleration — the question is, are they related?” Toyota should provide some safety systems to protect consumers while it works to identify the causes of unintended acceleration, including an override system that would shift vehicles into neutral when the accelerator and brake are depressed at the same time. NHTSA has asked automakers to provide information on the effectiveness of brake override systems through the industry lobbying group the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers.
In Japan there is a proverb, “If it stinks, put a lid on it.” Alas, this seems to have been Toyota’s approach to its burgeoning safety crisis, initially denying, minimizing and mitigating the problems involving brakes that don’t brake and accelerators that have a mind of their own. President Akio Toyoda, grandson of the founder, was MIA for two weeks and the company has appeared less than forthcoming about critical safety issues, risking the trust of its customers world-wide.
Maybe stick a fork in it might be more appropos.
I tried to tell you. It is not surprising that Toyota’s response has been dilatory and inept, because crisis management in Japan is grossly undeveloped. Over the past two decades, I cannot think of one instance where a Japanese company has done a good job managing a crisis. The pattern is all too familiar, typically involving slow initial response, minimizing the problem, foot dragging on the product recall, poor communication with the public about the problem and too little compassion and concern for consumers adversely affected by the product. Whether it’s exploding televisions, fire-prone appliances, tainted milk or false labeling, in case after case companies have shortchanged their customers by shirking responsibility until the accumulated evidence forces belated disclosure and recognition of culpability. The costs of such negligence are low in Japan where compensation for product liability claims is mostly derisory or non-existent.
Written over a year ago but very insightful story that highlights Toyota
Hexmate – You’ve divulged nothing. “Team Corvette” doesn’t mean jack to anyone outside the walls of GM – what do you DO? Design? Quality control? Assembly? Do you manage the Corvette program, or do you bolt together Corvette frames? Are you drawing plans, or are you drawing checks? Why is this question so hard to answer? You’ve bored us all to death with your lines about “40 years of experience” and your veteran status, but you have yet to tell us what your job description is.
###
If you want to be taken seriously, you can’t keep dodging such a simple question.
More bad news for Toyota. In an exclusive interview with ABC News, a former top lawyer for Toyota claims the automaker regularly hid evidence of safety defects from consumers and regulators, and fostered a culture of “hypocrisy and deceit.” Looks like their star is fallen now.
Jason said: “Hexmate
The Autoextemist has nailed it this time.
Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Toyota? Not anymore.
By Peter M. De Lorenzo
(Posted 2/9, 10:30AM) Detroit. I really wasn
Well Jason you remember you said they practice line rate changes at Toyota all the time. They had plenty of time to do that last week and they will have more in the future too. In fact they won’t need that plant in Mississippi either so they could turn that into a giant training center. De Lorenzo’s closing comments from yesterday are so poignant. ” On this frigid February day in 2010 I can actually begin to see the media rhetoric shift away from the Toyota=Good, Detroit=Bad mantra that has dominated this market for years.
Now it
Mickey said: “What gets me Jason that cadillac got away with the sticking gas pedal. Ford gets away with the brake issue on their Hybrid cars but yet the govt is going for the jugular on Toyota. Makes you wonder since the govt owns GM what
Hexmate – So you’ve done “all of those things?” Really? I think you’re probably a retired paper-pusher. An administrative person who got to look at a lot of reports and sit in on a lot of meetings, but who never had any real responsibilities or any real know-how. Am I getting warm?
###
By the way, feel free to lie about your job role. There’s no way that I’ll bother to contact David Hill to confirm whatever it is you claim to have done…
Jason said: “By the way, feel free to lie about your job role. There’s no way that I’ll bother to contact David Hill to confirm whatever it is you claim to have done…”
Oh Jason please do and while your at it contact Tom Wallace too – I worked for him for 13 years. Need his email address?
Looking pretty grim for the San Antonio folks with no hope in sight.
Toyota to idle Tundra output – 2-week production cut meant to trim inventory – http://freep.com/article/20100.....myBPhTM%3D
Hexmate – Pretty pitiful that you won’t answer a simple question – what did you DO for GM? Am I right – are you a retired administrative assistant?
Jason said: “By the way, feel free to lie about your job role.”
Jason I have forgotten more than you’ll ever know about the automotive business. The only fibbing taking place is at this preposterous website that touts a product that is made by a company that would hide or dismiss a problem so serious it could lead to the death of let’s see… 34 people now. The death toll continues to rise. Next the CEO doesn’t even have the intestinal fortitude to show up at the congressional hearing to answer for his companies indiscretions. It is behavior that is consistent with this website. It is unfortunate that many good people are being dragged down in the mud by the leadership of this company who are so arrogant they perceive themselves as omnipotent and beyond reproach. The same key elements or attributes of this website and the webmaster.
Jason said: “Hexmate – Pretty pitiful that you won’t answer a simple question – what did you DO for GM? Am I right – are you a retired administrative assistant?”
No Jason you are wrong. It is obvious you are an extremely desperate person grasping at anything you can to try and save face. That you would stoop to any level to discredit anyone who disagrees or critiques you and you are now desperately trying to recover in spite of the decimation of this farce you are perpetrating. The truth is you are a wannabe and have portrayed yourself as some kind of expert without any credentials in order to try and gain credibility at any cost and at the expense of anyone, when in fact you are a fraud. Now go call Mr. Hill and Mr. Wallace up and make certain you tell them how they ran GM into the ground and bankrupted the company. I’d love to listen in on that conversation – LOL!
Hexmate – So you were a secretary to Mr. Hill and Mr. Wallace then, is that correct?
###
What you’re failing to see here is that I, unlike you, am not ashamed to divulge my experience and background. You’re very quick to brag about your years of experience and the fact that you’ve “forgotten” more than I could ever know, yet you refuse to tell us what specific tasks you completed on “Team Corvette.” You can say whatever you want about my character, credibility and experience, but the longer you refuse to share the specifics of your background, the more you look like an impostor.
Jason said: “Hexmate – So you were a secretary to Mr. Hill and Mr. Wallace then, is that correct?”
Just as I pointed out Jason – desperation. How long did you work on creating this drivel? Couple of hours? LOL!
Jason said: “What you’re failing to see here is that I, unlike you, am not ashamed to divulge my experience and background. You’re very quick to brag about your years of experience and the fact that you’ve “forgotten” more than I could ever know, yet you refuse to tell us what specific tasks you completed on “Team Corvette.” You can say whatever you want about my character, credibility and experience, but the longer you refuse to share the specifics of your background, the more you look like an impostor.
Jason you have no experience or background – you are a webmaster and haven’t a clue about the automotive business. Ashamed!? LOL! Jason please – I’m not bragging about my years of experience Jason, just stating a fact. It is wannabes like you that can’t deal with that. I don’t need to prove anything Jason because I have not misrepresented the facts. You on the other hand, have this farce you have established for all to see and it stands as evidence to your ineptitude. Did you call Wallace or Hill yet? I told them to expect you – it WILL be a short conversation I’m sure. Good luck! Hey guess what? Mr. Toyoda will be coming back next week maybe you should meet with him so you can put together a recovery strategy. You need some factory assistance Jason. LOL! You are looking more desperate all the time Jason. You better help Toyota find a fix for this truck because there sounding pretty desperate too. You should hear the dealers in Michigan – they are beside themselves right now. What is death toll now Jason
Jason said: “Pretty pitiful that you won’t answer a simple question”
Jason you can’t answer any questions because you don’t know the answer. That is why you keep trying to turn the focus on me, but Jason it isn’t about me – it is about the killer trucks. That’s the resolution you need to work on. That should be your focus because the customers are going to get upset if they don’t get an answer soon. I forgot you are the webmaster. Well maybe you can whip up some hot webpage for them that will help out. Looks like the San Antonia gang will have more time to practice line rate speed changes – at least 2 week now.
Jason said: “unlike you, am not ashamed to divulge my experience and background.”
Jason you have no shame – that is why you have no integrity. That would be consistent behavior with Toyota – hey you could hire on Jason you are just what they look for in leadership.
Jason said: you refuse to share the specifics of your background, the more you look like an impostor.”
Jason I’m very confortable with my experience and background.
You are the one who has a problem with it, but hey it isn’t my product that is killing people, so anything outside of that issue is irrelevant. It is your product that is killing people. Oh wait a minute. Sorry – you don’t have a product. You have never done anythng related to automotive products. You just have a website and as the webmaster you don’t know what to do with this problem the product is encountering. Too bad – you better see if you can help them out they need every hand on deck right now.
Hexmate – Still not hearing you deny you were a secretary.
Jason said: “Hexmate – Still not hearing you deny you were a secretary.”
You must be deaf Jason. Now pull you skirt up!
Jason you figure out how to stop those runaway trucks yet?
The Toyota engineering boys were in the bar in Ann Arbor last night working on a new advertising song for Toyota. They were singing, “Pants on the ground, pants on the ground, hat turned to the side, we’re lookin like a fool with our pants on the ground!” Sounded pretty good too – they’ll need to get better though if they want to make a go of it on the road.
Hexmate since you’re on that wonderful corvette team…… How about that recall on the tops that fly off by themselves…. Did you forget some glue or a bolt…. hahhahahha Going down the road cruising an the top flies right off and hits whoever is behind you. Hexmate no need for Jason to state where he worked at. He stated it before and if you’re too illiterate to look then that’s your personal problem. We already know you read what you want.
Hexmate – Did you get a golden stapler when you retired?
I think so Jason along with the Silver paper clip award.
What organization did this review? I don’t want to interrupt the battle of the whits but just curious?
Tundraheadquarters did, Buckshot. Jason is admin of the website.
Buckshot – It was me, an auto writer named Dan, and a guy named Mark who’s been working in the auto industry for 20+ years. Our conclusions formed this comparison. As for the “battle of whits,” Hexmate claims to be an “expert” yet he won’t actually own-up to his experience. He’s made vague claims about being on “Team Corvette,” yet he can’t tell us if he was building Vettes or just washing parts. Top secret I guess.
Jason said: “It was me, an auto writer named Dan, and a guy named Mark who’s been working in the auto industry for 20+ years.”
Now those are impressive credentials. LOL!
Jason said: “Hexmate claims to be an “expert” yet he won’t actually own-up to his experience. He’s made vague claims about being on “Team Corvette,” yet he can’t tell us if he was building Vettes or just washing parts.”
Oh Jason come on! An expert? When did I ever claim to be an expert? I’m just being honest. You should try it sometime. I don’t need to prove anything, but on the other hand you have a lot of work to do.
Toyota’s Tundra pickup weakened quality image.
The 2007 Toyota Tundra was among the most eagerly awaited new vehicles of the past decade: a rising automaker’s ultimate challenge to established competitors. The Tundra struck at U.S. automakers’ last stronghold: full-size pickups. It was widely expected to stomp them into dust.
Instead of a triumph that pounded the final nail into Dodge, Ford and GM’s coffins, Toyota’s first full-size pickup has struggled…
http://freep.com/article/20100.....lity-image
Well Jason it looks like the wheels are coming off of the Toyota machine rather quickly. Much faster than it took to put them on. What is really interesting is watching the scramble at Toyota HQ as the leaders scurry around trying to keep the whole thing from blowing up. Looks like they are going to be put in the hurt locker.
Hexmate Said in February 19th, 2010 @7:00 am Jason said: you refuse to share the specifics of your background, the more you look like an impostor.”
Jason I’m very confortable with my experience and background.
If you are so greatly comfortable ole mighty one how come you still after over a year refuse to give your credentials? You stated you wanted facts. Here are the facts : You posted on this thread 165x. Out of those 165x you forgot your name 4x. Out of those 165x you only presented 18x where someone can go read about your facts. To where Jason presented you well over 50. The fact is you hate to lose. Now the best fact of all big shot. Back in 03/05/08 You stated we been reading too much Wall Street Journal that GM will fall in the whole (meaning Bankrupt) Well now you need to prove yourself oh glamorous one with what the so call credentials you have there. For all we know you’re the local janitor that works at a GM dealer. You don’t need to prove anything? Hexmate you can’t play both sides of the coin. If you state Jason has to prove himself you are obligated to do the same. You call him out and now you need to prove yourself. Your first post was 02/25/08. Apparently you proven one thing. You have no proof. In over 2 years of arguing you’re still at square one.
Hexmate – Golden rolodex?
Jason said: “Hexmate – Golden rolodex?”
That is the best you can do Jason? LOL! I guess so under the circumstances. The webmaster is at a loss for words. Oh uh Jason, your pants are on the ground and your hat is turned to the side. You are lookin like a fool with your pants on the ground. LOL! Can you say U-N-I-N-T-E-N-D-E-D A-C-C-E-R-A-T-I-O-N? Sure you can! Now pull your pants up!
Well Mickey that is an impressive diatribe you wrote, well maybe not impressive, but quite a diatribe. It would be wise for you not worry about me and start worrying about yourself. You my friend should make sure that kamikaze machine you are driving has a full roll cage built into it, a 5 point restraint system, put your helmet on, oh and wear Depends at all times when driving it so that when it takes off you are prepared in the event you survive the crash. It will make it easy for you to clean up and you won’t ruin your cloths. LOL!
It is obvious the two of you don’t have much to offer other than to try and attack me, but the whole world has seen the criminal act your beloved Toyota has committed against their customers. Seems you would be better served trying to do some damage control and reconciliation in order to deal with this, but then it appears you are significantly challenged with regard to this technological screw up. The facts and data are evidence of this and the other missteps that are pointed out in Phelan’s story and are indisputable. What really matters is how this problem reaches a resolution and neither of you (Jason/Mickey) is equipped to respond or deal with the resolution. So much for the superior status of your truck, a truly lost opportunity.
Mickey – Good call on Hexmate’s numbers. 165x comments seems to indicate an obsession. I’ve commented 50+ times because I run this thing…what’s Hexmate’s excuse?
In any case, I’m going to let Hexmate have the last word. I’m closing comments – this has gone on long enough. Thanks to everyone who commented here – Hexmate included.