How Much Sympathy Do Joggers or Bicyclists Deserve?
Tim Esterdahl | Jan 03, 2012 | Comments 13
The pedestrian versus vehicle rights conflict on roadways was made painfully clear in West Seattle when a jogging pedestrian was struck by a semi and critically injured. When emergency workers arrived at the scene, they remarked on camera that the man should not jog to work. Their remarks were peppered with expletive insults. This has concerned joggers and bicyclists up in arms, but the question of how much sympathy the man deserves is still open for debate.
Coming close to death or dying is the utmost of sympathetic events. Even if a person is foolhardy, he or she still elicits sympathy in such a situation. Therefore, in that respect, the general human reaction would be to feel sympathy for the jogger. However, that is only concerning his injuries and emergency workers are accustomed to such injuries.
If the man was jogging in the middle of the road, sympathy becomes a gray area. Was he in a specially marked lane for pedestrians? Was he in a crosswalk and, if so, did he have the right of way at the moment? If the answer to any of the above questions is yes then the pedestrian is innocent of guilt in the eyes of the law. If the jogger was unlawfully jogging in the middle of the road, he is at fault in the eyes of the law. This may not make him unworthy of sympathy, but it may explain the exasperated remarks made by emergency workers.
In any event, this is an ongoing conversation about sharing the road and how we can all live together.
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I have huge issues with bicyclists in their tight stretch pants riding double (side by side) in my rural county roads with tons of twistys and sharper blind curves. Most come from Madison WI and choose to NOT travel the wonderful bike trails in and around Madison and instead travel twisty country roads and do NOT go on the shoulder of the road. I’m sorry, but they do NOT belong there and when 2 cars come from different directions, the bicyclists should get off the road or stop and get off the road, but they think they own the roads in the country most do not ride the white line and instead stay 2-3 feet onto the road almost forcing an accident. Yes, I can slow down which I do but at times, 2 cars coming in different directions cannot be avoided. Some may say it is the vehicle driver’s responsibility to even stop or slow down from 60 to 10 mph if need be to avoid an accident, but I say it is a 2-way street meaning the bicyclists have a legal responsibility to stop or pull over off the road or at the very least ride the white line on the edge of the road and NOT drive 2-3 feet into the road, especially if traffic is coming from both ways. I don’t have any issues with walkers since most are courteous and respectful of the right of way plus I do not live in Madison WI. If I did, I am sure 100’s of walkers everyday think they own the road as well. Rest assured, if I was stupid enough to drive my bicycle on rural twisty country roads weekly like they do, you can be sure I would be off the road and/or stop for fear of getting hit by a car.
MK,
When deciding to run this article, Jason and I both agreed that this post would probably cause some reaction. I also know that we will not all agree.
Full disclosure is that I ride a bicycle quite often here in Colorado. I have been on both sides; riding down the road and driving past riders. I can see both sides of the issue.
Interestingly, Madison is known throughout the cycling community as having some of the country’s most amazing scenery. That is precisely why cyclists take those twisty country roads. We enjoy nature’s beauty just like fishermen or hunters.
Sadly, most drivers automatically think that paved trails are they only place people should ride. Ironically, I have been HIT more on trails than on the road. When people walk on trails, they don’t always pay attention to their surroundings and/or they bring their dogs without leases. Also, many trails around here are coming up with speed limits.
Thus, I am given a tough choice. I can ride really slowly along dangerous trails while missing some amazing scenery. Or I can try to find a stretch of road that is beautiful and hope drivers will be courteous and share the road. Still don’t see it. Imagine if you were not allowed to take your truck off-roading or if you had a speed limit of 10mphs everywhere you drove. It is a tough choice and we will not all agree on the right approach.
Here in Colorado, we actually have the following provisions as part of our law:
(b) A BICYCLIST SHALL NOT BE EXPECTED OR REQUIRED TO:
(I) RIDE OVER OR THROUGH HAZARDS AT THE EDGE OF A ROADWAY, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO FIXED OR MOVING OBJECTS, PARKED OR MOVING VEHICLES, BICYCLES, PEDESTRIANS, ANIMALS, SURFACE HAZARDS, OR NARROW LANES; OR
(II) RIDE WITHOUT A REASONABLE SAFETY MARGIN ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE OF THE ROADWAY.
The last one has turned into the 3 feet rule. Drivers are expected, by law, to give cyclists 3 feet to pass.
I hope that helps give some perspective.
I am a novice bicyclist also and find it tough in rural country roads around Madison to give 3 feet rule to cyclists when oncoming traffic comes at you. No one can honestly expect a car to slow down to 10 mph in a 55 mph speed zone when several cars are behind you and also coming at you the other way at the same time. The shoulder of these roads are at best 1 foot if that before going into the ditch especially a few twisty rural country roads these bicyclists take. I don’t see the need for them to be there at all personally. I know I wouldn’t risk my life to see the countryside. I like the rule in Colorado meaning cyclists should not ride without a reasonable safety margin on the right hand side of the roadway since the few roads these cyclists take are NOT safe enough to support 2 cars and a cyclist at the same time. I wish WI had a law like that, or do they? The few times I have taken my kids and I outside into the country outside of my small town the road has a white line we stay on or if cars come both ways, I tell my kids to slow down and drive real slow in the 3′ of gravel shoulder where the roads these cyclists take does not have that 3′ of gravel to go on which is totally not safe. Besides, the 1,000 dollar bikes they ride are totally 100% made for concrete/blacktop road, not gravel, with their very skinny/faster tires.
MK,
Sadly not everyone’s sense of what is safe is the same. I road through a canyon road here in Colorado that is very similar to the roads you describe in Madison. At the time, I felt safe. It was a mid-afternoon and I was in my early 20s. Now that I have a wife and 3 kids, I probably won’t take the same ride. Unfortunately, those types of roads are everywhere around here. So, alas, you still have the question of whether the joy of the ride versus never being able to ride on it.
Luckily, Colorado is known for its cyclists, so many drivers understand that they will see cyclists on these roads. And we have hundreds of signs with share the road messaging on the most popular rides. I remember one time that there were so many cyclists riding up a canyon, I was getting passed by more bikes than cars!
-Tim
Fellow Coloradoan here. While I’m not as frequent a cyclist anymore as I once was, my issue isn’t with the laws to protect cyclists and pedestrians. It’s with the people themselves. Here in CO, it is illegal to ride two abreast on Denver streets, but is done quite often. Too many cyclists get hit or nearly hit for running stop signs/lights, as I witness these events on a daily basis in the Highlands neighborhoods, as well on my commutes thru Boulder. Too many times cyclists, like motorists anymore, have their I-Pod blasting music and are oblivious to their surroundings and traffic. By Colorado law, any cyclist on the road must obey the same traffic laws as an automobile. Problem is, on a percentage basis, I see more cyclists disobey the rules of the road than I do automobile drivers. And we see tons of bad drivers around here. I believe this is because cyclists know or at least think they do not have to obey the same laws, or they believe they’ll never get pulled over for such an offense. Growing up here in CO, I have learned to share the road, and certainly have no issues doing so. All my frustrations revolve around too many riders complete disregard for the laws and the safety of themselves and others.
Justin,
I completely agree. I refuse to ride two abreast on busy streets. Also, while I may glide through a stop sign every once in a while, if it is a busy street, I always stop, un-clip my shoes and come to a complete stop. Much like anything else, it is always a few bad apples that spoils it for everyone else.
-Tim
I’m not sure what point they were trying to make in the video clip. Who cares about the personal thoughts and feelings of the officers on scene. If the victim was provided neccessary and appropriate medical treatment and the collision was investigated fairly and properly, it really doesn’t matter if the cops think he was an idiot or not. I am a cop, I rarely encounter people using common sense during an average day. I’m not allowed to be rude to people, but I am allowed to have my personal opinion about stupid decisions with another officer. It just so happens that this officer’s personal opinion was audio recorded. That does not change the fact that he has the right to the opinion and he wasn’t “discourteous” to the victim.
Bicycling and being a pedestrian are 2 different things. A pedestrian is supposed to use sidewalks and crosswalks. In most fatal pedestrian collisions, the pedestrian is at fault. Vehicles are only required to yield to pedestrians if they are already in a crosswalk. Pedestrians are not allowed to enter the crosswalk until it is safe to do so. It obviously wasn’t safe for the pedestrian in this case. It shouldn’t take but 5 seconds to cross a single lane of traffic, but it takes a lot longer to stop a large truck moving at a posted speed limit. He either wasn’t in a cross walk or stepped out in front of a moving vehicle… HIS FAULT.
Bikes are considered vehicles and are not allowed to use crosswalks. There will always be conflict between a cyclist (doing 15 or 20 mph in a 40-40 mph zone) and a car (who is usually attempting to do at least the speed limit). I ride my bike on bike trails or residential roadways, so as to not be involved in the conflict on a commuter route. Personally I feel that it is selfish for a cyclist to travel well below the speed limit on a single lane road and cause a line of traffic behind them. I realize that they are legally entitled to do such, but its still an egotistical thing to do…
Mike,
It seems like after Rodney King that the public sees police officers as public figures who are held to a higher level than an average citizen. For me, I would have liked the officer to not have his personal opinion aired. I get that you will have a personal opinion, but that doesn’t mean it is always appropriate to share it.
For example, I am also a high school football/baseball official and while I normally have a personal opinion about a coach/player or play calling, it would really be imprudent for me to share. I think police officers need to have the same approach.
-Tim
Working in Portland OR (the most bicycle frendly city) I see this crap all the time and have very little simpathy. Bikes around here run reds, ride two accross, weave between cars in traffic, grab onto vehicles to get going faster and when one gets hit by a car they cry fowl on the driver of the car. what do the Police around here do? NOTHING (thanks to our mayor)! I have yet to hear of one bike get a ticket for anything! I think if you are on the main road, you should have to help pay for and maintain it and fallow the freaking laws. even $5 a year to licence your bike is not a big deal, dont by Starbucks for a day!
Peds are about the same, their favorite thing to do is walk between 2 parked cars on the street where you cant see them and cross just as you are comming down the road. once again Police do nothing (thank you again mayor). So for this cop to give a little crap to this one hopefuly makes a few of the dumb ones think twice about which is heavier, bicycle or 09 Toyota Tundra 🙂
WIN!
Josh,
I have been to Seattle and I would assume that cyclists in Portland are similar to what I say in Seattle. And I share your sentiments. I saw some cyclists do things I would never consider. I do think there is a difference between bicycle couriers and downtown riders versus recreational riders.
Mike I agree with what you posted. Just about once a month here in Jax, Fl one cyclist or pedestrian is hit> Most die from the injuries. Yes most cyclist don’t obey the lights etc. You can have 20+ cyclist in a group where they are 4 wide on a county road. Some would move but most won’t. I think the story stated the guy was jogging. If he was jogging in the street he should be like the cyclist by the white line. Personally I would run on the grass next to the shoulder or in the city run the sidewalk.
mk – I think there’s the law – which says bicyclists have as much right to the road as anyone – and then there’s common sense, which says a 200 lbs bicycle/bicyclist combo has no business sharing the road with a 4000 lbs vehicle. And two abreast? That’s illegal AND stupid.
I’m a bicyclist (well, mountain biker) and I get nervous riding on the side of a busy road. I’d rather ride up and down a mountain over big rocks…less risky.
Tim – You make a compelling case – great points, and great work. 🙂
Justin – Here here on bicylcists running red lights and ignoring stop signs. If you want to use the road like a car, at least obey the same laws. After all, the traffic laws are there for everyone because they make everyone safer.
Good to hear from you, btw! 🙂
Mike – I’m with you when you say “who cares” about the rude comments by the police officers. They (you) deal with a lot of crap, so a great deal of latitude should be given in regards to morbid jokes or mean-spirited comments. If you guys can’t vent, you might not be in the right frame of mind during an emergency. Far better for you to make fun of me than to unleash a day’s worth of frustrations on a single lawbreaker.
Also, good point about pedestrians being at fault. In Manhattan, I saw numerous pedestrians make a stupid or thoughtless move into traffic and damn near get hit (I even saw a young woman get laid out by a Taxi). Pedestrians take risks, often times because they’re not paying close enough attention (at least in NYC).
Josh – Sounds infuriating. I can understand where you’re coming from: If you act like a car, you should follow the same rules, right?
Mickey – Me too – jogging next to the road isn’t much fun in my book. Too loud, and too many cars to watch out for. I’d rather run through the park, dash across private property Ferris Bueller style (LOL), etc.
Of course, the last time I jogged there was a Republican in the White House, so maybe I should just shut up!! 🙂
It was 2003 for me when I retired from the Navy. No more running.