Honda President Says Big Engines Are Dead. Seriously?
Jason Lancaster | Oct 28, 2009 | Comments 22
While Honda makes everything from power tools to robots to mini-jets, an argument could be made that Honda is an engine company. Every major product line features some sort of fossil-fuel powered motor, and their worldwide success would seem to suggest that Honda knows a thing or two about building a great engine.
Honda President Takanobu Ito doesn't understand American car culture.
However, when the President of Honda Motors, Takanobu Ito, says that the era of big powerful engines is dead, his understanding of the US auto market should be called into question. Here’s the exact quote:
“Sure, there are folks who like that ‘vroom’ of the engine out of nostalgia…But those people are stuck in the past.”
Is Mr. Ito seriously suggesting that future American car buyers won’t want big powerful engines? Big and powerful engines are what American car culture is all about!
First of all, American car culture can be summed up with the following references:
- The movies Transformers, The Fast and The Furious, Back to the Future, American Graffiti, Smokey and The Bandit, Road Warrior, and Bullit sum up our culture’s modern automotive preferences. When you think of the cars in each of these movies, the one you remember will be fast.
If you haven't seen the car chase in the movie Bullit, rent it. Feel free to skip the rest of the movie, however.
- Any vehicle driven by Batman or James Bond.
- The car magazine shelf at your local bookstore.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to recognize the main theme in American car culture is “speed.”
Pictures of fast cars and bikini girls are in almost every car magazine (not that I'm complaining)
Second, the tendency of American drivers to be territorial is CRITICAL to understanding our car market. Territorial acts like tailgating, cutting other drivers off, blocking other drivers, street racing, etc. are more likely to occur when one vehicle is bigger and/or faster than another. Many Americans buy bigger and/or faster cars because, sub-consciously, they want to either win or prevent these confrontations.
Third, safety fears are profound in America. Americans, as a general rule, tend drive a lot. When you drive a lot, you’re bound to have a car accident. In fact, the typical American will have multiple car accidents in their lifetime. While most accidents will be minor, the fear of injury or death in a car accident is very real. Americans tend to “hedge their bets” by buying a bigger vehicle.
To sum up:
- Our culture values fast cars.
- Our sub-conscious behaviors emphasize big and/or fast cars.
- Our safety fears emphasize big cars.
This all adds up to one point: big engines are here to stay. While some will argue that small engines can power big cars, I disagree. The saying “there’s no replacement for displacement” is as true today as it was 100 years ago. If you want a big and/or powerful car, you need a big engine. All the turbos and variable valve timing in the world can’t compete with an extra 2 or 3 liters of displacement (because it’s all about torque…but that’s another story).
What about gas prices, you say? What about them? Gas prices exploded in the early 70’s and little cars took off. Honda, Toyota, and Nissan cleaned up. Yet once the initial price shock wore off, Americans cozied right back up to their big vehicles. Unless there is a fundamental shift in our desires for big, safe, and powerful cars, any emphasis on small cars and small engines is temporary.
Does this mean that every driver wants a big powerful car with a big engine? Of course not. I’d say that it’s only 30-50% of the market…which is a LOT.
Bottom Line: Until someone invents a cost-effective alternative to the internal combustion engine, Honda’s President is completely wrong. Big engines are far from dead.
Filed Under: TundraHeadquarters.com
I think it’s a subtle way for them to say “We have no future plans to build large engines with a large amount of power ever”. Which I think we all knew.
NoKz – Fair enough. I think Honda builds great little cars, but I think they risk their future with blanket statements like this. Big engines are dead if all they plan to be is an entry-level car company. However, if Honda ever wants Acura to thrive (or if they ever plan to make a real stab at the SUV or truck market), they’re going to need a better grasp of American car culture.
Take a look at the honda ridgeline. Mediocre power at best with a V6 and not a full size truck, but 3/4 size. This is all Honda has for a V6 and no V8’s ever as far as I know. Honda should stick to tiny 4 cylinder cars which they are o.k. at, but their cars and trucks are butt ugly. He is from Japan and ignorant for saying this in America – Japan and China fine, but not the USA market.
Hahah i agree with mk, The ridgeline fails as a truck,even though it may have more horsepower than the 4.0L V6 tacoma, when my friends and i are discussing trucks both full and mid size, the ridgeline is hardly if never even mentioned. Im glad that my parents got me a Tacoma for my first car. The tacoma looks more like a truck, and ive done so much to this Tacoma in the year that ive driven it (its an 08 model), im sure our last truck would not have lasted this long if my dad had treated it the same way.We had a 03 RAM 1500, with the 5.7L HEMI, it was a great truck until it broke down, and my dad realllyyy took care of it,acording to the mechanic somehow the cylinder head gasket broke and i think the water and oil started to mix,And ive trashed my tacoma quite a bit, and the little taco is still going 😀
Oh and also,
according to wikipedia (although i shouldn’t be citing from there, but whatever…)
Honda sold 33,875 Ridgelines’ in 2008
Toyota sold 144,665 Tacoma’s in 2008.
In 2009, Tacoma still out sold the ridgeline and frontier.
So i guess it could be logical to conclude that when people think “compact truck” or if they arent looking for a full size truck it looks like toyota comes to mind. I give Toyota huge kudos for that 🙂
A Honda V8 would be interesting to see…..but looks like it will never happen.
What is that whistling noise? OH, that’s Hondas market share dropping.
Honda’s sell really well, but to the yuppy and eco-friendly crowd around here in WI. They claim reliability is good, but if I am not comfortable sitting and driving any of their cars or trucks, I will never buy one. My neighbor has a newer Honda CRV (butt ugly), seats are pathetically flat, small, and not too supportive for heavier people like myself and the power and ride is not as good as my same year built previous RAV4 I had for a cheaper price. Their cars are butt ugly as well. I’d buy the domestic 3 over a Honda car anyday just because of looks even though the reliability in a Honda is more likely to be there.
Honda should stick to motorcycles and lawnmowers where they do well enough. Big engines have a purpose and they should consider scrapping the Ridgeline. I’ll agree with Nokz’ statement…..
In a way Nokz is right but to add to it in my thinking. Honda hasn’t had a big engine to start so why come out crying about it. You just made your company look bad by putting your nose where you don’t belong. First of all he needs to learn American culture before he spews out trash. I seriously don’t think Honda has the know how to build a successful V8. No R&D in it so why tell everyone this statement? He think’s people will jump on his bandwagon? We”l see if this actually hurts his company for those remarks.
Gutz – That would be cool, but as you say it’s probably not going to happen. Honda had V8 plans a couple of years ago and they freezed all development last year.
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As TXTee and others have said, the Ridgeline is a weak offering. I would guess that Honda will abandon the platform at some point, but who knows. As long as popular consumer magazines fundamentally missunderstand the truck market and recommend it, the Ridgeline has a chance.
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There is a market for a truck that’s not quite compact but not quite full-size – Ford has explored the possibility of building an F-100 to fill this niche…but that idea doesn’t have legs, evidently.
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Personally, I like the Honda product (I had an Acura once), but they’re definitely failing in the luxury car segment. Acura’s were popular cheap luxury options at one time, but they’ve peaked. It turns out that Americans want *powerful* luxury cars, not luxury versions of economic Hondas…and Acura is the proof.
As for the Ridgeline, I don’t think that the transmission could withstand a v8. It runs front wheel drive at speeds over 30mph and the drivetrain would strain under a V8. This is why the Ridgeline’s V6 had to be a high output naturaly aspirated six so it would’nt be underpowered. I think the ridgeline should have a, oh, I don’t know, 3.0 L V6 deisel. I think that honda makes a lot of cars with deisels in Europe. If this engine got the same atleast 225 hp and 300 lb ft of tourque, the Ridgeline would sell like no tomorrow. The truck would also get better gas milage. The only bad thing is, the engine would cost a lot and instead of $28,000 it would be somewhere around $35,000. If it was only $30,000 it might sell. At that price, someone would buy a full sized pick-up instead, unless people don’t like the less practical size of a full size. Does anyone know why mid sized pick-ups don’t have an optional deisel engine?
Steve not to mention expensive maintenance cost.
Mickey- I don’t think that a deisel engine needs any more maintenance than a gas engine. Now that I’m thinking about it, a deisel may not be a good idea just because it would raise the already fairly high msrp. The current ridgeline is already a pretty good value.
Steve – Diesels definitely need more maintenance – more oil, more fuel filters, more air filters, and any new diesel is either going to need a VERY expensive emissions system or regular refills of “DEF” – diesel exhaust fluid – that is injected into the exhaust stream to clean up NOx. A Ridgeline with a diesel could easily cost $40k-$45k. I think there’s a market for a $40 diesel truck – I really do – but I don’t think Honda is the company that will do it. In fact, smart people I know say that no one will build a diesel half-ton in the near future.
O.K. You’re probably right.
Hey I just had a thought maybe Pam Anderson is really a Tundra.
We won’t go into bed bounce issues at this time however.
You know, if you could make a truck with a Briggs & Stratton two lunger (no more Pam Anderson references, I promise) you could probably get better gas mileage. It might have a 200 lb payload capacity and tow a folding tent in a grocery cart. (That was tent, not tent camper) and walking would be faster.
Hey, you could fit a lawn mower blade on the bottom and pick up a little cash doing lawns.
I don’t get it. What’s your point? The ridgelines V6 is pretty high output. The gas milage really isn’t that bad either. The tacoma gets the same highway mpg and only one better city mpg. The ridge gets 250 hp out of a 3.5 L six while the tacoma gets about 15 less with a 4.0 V6.
Maintenance between gas and diesel depends on the vehicle. 12-15k for a oil change on a diesel cost $100.
6k oil change for a gas is $40, and that’s being conservative.
Transmission every 30k, I do that no matter what the manual says.
Tire rotation, has to be done on either one.
Fuel filter has to be completed on both. I do mine every 15k no matter what. Easier than a fuel pump and cheaper!
The Ridgeline has a purpose and are not suitable for some. I can’t stand them. Some people just wont let it go. Steve we know you like you Cruck, and we are happy for you. Let it go!
I won’t carry on but are you trying to tell me that a Cruck is a compact truck, or a car/truck hybrid mix.
Americans are spoiled. Even large vehicle can get away with smaller engines. It’s funny that traffic moves much faster in other countries even though the cars have less specific displacement.
John – I think that’s fair. We are definitely spoiled by big motors, but as the article says American drivers are both paranoid about vehicle size and typically territorial. These two characteristics – combined with a culture that emphasizes power – means that the V8 is far from dead.