Ford F150 Innovation Continues, Will Toyota Match?
Jason Lancaster | Jun 03, 2011 | Comments 13
Yesterday, Ford announced plans to produce an eight speed automatic transmission. According to Mike Levine of PickupTrucks.com, it’s expected that the F-150 will receive this eight speed as soon as 2014. What’s more, Levine noted on Twitter that he expected “GM’s next-gen 2014 light-duty Silverado and Sierra will also offer an 8-speed transmission.”
We’ve been keeping a tally of possible and probable enhancements to the 2014 Toyota Tundra here, a list we’ve made based on comments given to us by sources, notes from news stories, etc. You’ll note that we don’t believe Toyota will be developing an 8-speed transmission for the 2014 Tundra, and quite frankly I’m not sure that Ford’s announcement changes this assessment. While 8 speeds are clearly better than 6, the relative improvements are small.
According to Ford engineer Joe Bakaj, an eight speed transmission boosts fuel economy “2 to 6 percent,” a substantial improvement to be sure, but is it worth the additional expense and complexity?
The Increased Complexity of The Eight Speed Transmission
As any auto repair technician will tell you, 8 speed automatic transmissions are a lot like two separate transmissions combined into one unit. While 4, 5, and 6-speed automatic transmissions are relatively straightforward (not as straightforward as the old manual transmission), 8 speed transmissions are more expensive to design, manufacture, and repair.
Schematic of newer ZF 8 Speed Automatic, found in many new Euro luxury cars.
Yet despite the inherent complexity of more gears, we’re seeing a lot more vehicles with 8 speed transmissions. The Lexus LS brought out the world’s first 8 speed transmission in 2006, and numerous other manufacturers (Chrysler, Hyundai, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Rolls Royce, etc.) either have production vehicles with an 8 speed auto or plan to in the near future.
…but none of these vehicles are trucks.
Truck transmissions need to be tough – towing and hauling can be hard on a transmission, especially if the owner the truck is pushing the limits of his or her vehicle (a frequent scenario). If an eight speed transmission is only 2-6% more efficient than a six speed, and yet more expensive and complex, why would a truck company add one to their fleet? It doesn’t seem like the increased complexity – and possible reduction in reliability – is a worthwhile change, especially when there are so many other options for improving gas mileage.
Don’t get me wrong – innovation is important, and it could just be that an 8 speed transmission is going to be the next big thing in pickups. However, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Toyota stuck with the 6-speed they already have and integrate fuel saving technologies like variable valve lift, stop-start, electric power steering, improved aerodynamics, and weight reduction instead. Not only are these technologies capable of improving the fuel economy of an entire vehicle 15-20%, but none of them require a significant increase in complexity. Toyota already uses variable valve lift in quite a few small vehicles, as well as stop-start and electric steering.
The other reason I’d be surprised to see Toyota go for an 8 speed transmission has to do with cost. Developing a new transmission costs $500 million to $1 billion by most estimates, and Toyota really hasn’t gotten their money’s worth out of the current design (automakers like to make transmission designs last 10 years). Considering just how few trucks Toyota sells, it probably doesn’t make financial sense to develop an eight speed transmission for a measly 2-6% improvement in gas mileage.
However, in the truck world, bragging rights are key to sales. Ford’s announcement may force Toyota to invest in an eight-speed automatic for the next generation Tundra.
Filed Under: Tundra News
I think the 6 speed is perfect. I would add more rear end gearing options for people who want a bit more gas milage, and get a desil option in there! no other 1/2 ton on the market offers a desil, I think that would be a much bigger step over the competition as opposed to a gimmicy 8 speed.
It may be Toyota’s best interested go the diesel route rather than follow the pack. They could make up the extra fuel economy and have something different to offer over the 8 speed and like stated above with some weight reduction and direct injection.
Lexus ISF already has had an a Speed for near 5 years now, with sequential shift.
If Lexus already has the 8 speed it wouldn’t be that much of a difference to make one for the Tundra. The testing is already done by the Lexus. Ford has to test there’s. The F-150 can’t afford the failure of the tranny like the Excursion did in the begining of the 6 speed.
I don’t know about 8 speed trannys. I really think pulling any load whatsoever over say 1500lbs. will be an issue since the truck will be kicking in and out of 7 and 8th gear and maybe even downshift into 6th gear up steeper hills thus DECREASING gas mileage. I say leave as is and let Ford and GM work out the kinks first. GM’s 5.3L is wimpy enough now with their crappy gear ratios like 3.08 and 3.42 that they cannot pull anything without flooring the engine thus decreasing gas mileage. It amazes me that GM’s 5.3L engine with 3.42 rear axle ratio gets worse gas mileage in my experiences than toyota 5.7L bigger displacement engine with the 4.30 rear axle ratio. Gear ratios have as much importance in the truck world as # of speeds of trannys.
Don’t really care at this point. 8 speed sounds great on paper. In real world truck driving conditions, it may be a different story.
Josh – Plus one for diesel…come on Toyota, let’s go! 🙂
Ed – Another diesel fan…is anyone at Toyota reading this?
cater – True. I didn’t mention it in the article since the ISF’s tranny is based on the LS tranny (essentially the same).
Mickey – I’ve been told that truck transmissions need to be much, much more durable than car transmissions, but who knows. Maybe it’s just a question of doubling the strength of every component…or maybe not. I’ve heard that truck transmissions are more difficult to design from a few people.
In any case, I absolutely agree that Ford can’t afford any sort of quality blemish. Both Ford and GM need to be certain that a new 8 speed is rock solid before they start selling them.
mk – I agree that an 8 speed wouldn’t help gas mileage under load, but keep in mind all of this fuel-saving technology is designed for the EPA fuel test. They’re not trying to make them better in the real world…they’re trying to make them better for the test. As screwed up as that is.
I also agree that dropping that 4.30 rear end down would give the Tundra a bit of a boost.
Art64 – I agree. I think Toyota is probably going to be using a 6 speed in the Tundra until 2016.
Hmmm, an 8 speed. Well, with an 8 speed an engine can be kept in it’s sweet spot through gear changes, much like a big rig (with many more gears of course, but the concept is the same). Now mate an 8 speed with a 4 cylinder diesel, that would be something.
LJC – Souds good to me! Can I get a 6 speed manual version? 🙂
I think that the 1/2 ton market we know today will fad away in the next 5 to 7 years. Mainly, the upcoming CAFE requirements and the 1/2 ton truck not being exempt from them will force the 1/2 ton market to take a new direction. I believe the direction will be a smaller vehicle made with lighter but stronger metal and either a diesel (4 cylinder) engine or CNG/NG engine. The smaller vehicle will be the size of a Tacoma or Frontier I think. Also, as some of you may know, Nissan has mule Titan with a 4 cylinder Cummins diesel with around 250 HP and 360 TQ that will get around 28 MPG combined.
I make a bold statement, but look at the recent past of full size SUVs.
LJC – I’ve heard others make that prediction, and I definitely see the logic behind it. However, I think that the average American consumer is going to want bigger trucks before they go with a smarter, smaller truck…but I get what you’re saying.
For what it’s worth, I’d drive a Tacoma-sized truck with a diesel all day long.
Ford’s Innovation should be to fix the shudder 1-2 shift issues on the 6R60. This transmission is in alot of Ford’s vehicles. The dealers hope that the cars and trucks run out of warranty so they can replace the tranny with the same faulty unit.
Toyota doesn’t need to anything to match. Toyota relies on repeat customers, who afterall are former fed-up domestic owners.
SDD,
Good point about former fed-up domestic owners. I also think Toyota is creating life-long customers through its passenger cars. I mean, if you already own a Toyota passenger car, it isn’t that much of a stretch that you are likely to consider a Toyota truck.
-Tim