Toyota Frame Rust Recall Only A Partial Fix
Jason Lancaster | Nov 24, 2009 | Comments 173
UPDATE: As of May 2010, Toyota has extended the warranty on 2000-2003 Tundra frames. Please see Toyota Tundra Frame Replacement Program for more details.
Today, Toyota has recalled 110,000 1st generation Toyota Tundras due to frame rust concerns. Specifically, this recall requires dealers to inspect the rear cross member and rear brake line mounts on 2000-2003 Tundras for significant rust. If dealers find that the frame’s rear cross member or brake line mount has significant rust, the corroded parts will be replaced as soon as possible.
Toyota has recalled 2000-2003 Tundras over frame rust concerns. Hopefully, this is just a first step.
Toyota’s recall is great news for owners of 2000-2003 Tundras with frame rust, but it is only a half measure. Toyota will need to do more than replace one piece of the frame to completely satisfy 1st generation Tundra owners.
Toyota’s official announcement states that:
Certain 2000 through 2003 model year Tundra vehicles operated in cold climate areas with high road salt use, may exhibit excessive corrosion on the frame rear cross-member. In the worst case, the spare tire stowed under the truck bed may become separated from the rear cross-member. Spare tire separation will create a road hazard for following vehicles and increase the likelihood of a crash.
Eventually, excessive corrosion of the rear cross-member may also affect the functionality of the rear brake line at the proportioning valve. If this occurs, it can lead to the loss of the rear brake circuits which will increase vehicle stopping distances and the risk of a crash.
Toyota’s decision to recall these vehicles and replace rusting rear cross-members will likely satisfy NHTSA investigators. Unless NHTSA has uncovered other safety issues related to frame rust, this is likely the last time the federal government will be involved.
Unfortunately, this recall will not satisfy many owners of 1st generation Tundras with rusting frames. While it’s important to replace the rear cross member, many owners have related stories to us of Tundras that can not be aligned, broken suspension mounts, and a myriad of minor problems that are symptomatic of a rusted frame.
Stated simply, this is only the first step in taking care of this problem. Toyota still needs to recover the faith of their owners by either:
- Offering to replace ALL portions of the frame with significant rust.
- Offering to buy-back vehicles with significant frame rust.
As part of this recall, owners of 2000-2003 Tundras in the following states – CT, DE, IL, IN, KY, MA, MD, ME, MI, MN, NH, NJ, NY, OH, PA, RI, VA, VT, WI, and WV – are advised to remove their spare tires immediately until such time that their vehicle can be taken to the dealership for inspection.
Search terms people used to find this page:
- https://tundraheadquarters com/toyota-frame-rust-recall-only-partial-fix/
- tundra frame rust
Filed Under: Tundra News • Tundra Recalls
Jason, great article you’ve written, as usual. Keep up the good work man!
It’s taken Toyota a long time to react, and they sure chose a mediocre safety issue to contribute the rust recall to: spare tire falling off. I know they also cite the brake lines may rust, but in the Gen1, the rear brakes are drums and not the main braking element. I wish they’d replace the entire frame too, but that’s A LOT of labor time, especially considering the hardware is probably worse off than the frame metal. I’d like to see what happens next. The Tacoma recall was HUGE, hope the Tundra doesn’t end up like that. Our current economy just isn’t strong enough right now for more excitement like this.
Tundradrenalin – Thanks! Toyota has taken a very long time to respond, and that’s probably not a good sign. I too hope that something more is done.
I don’t like the idea of limiting it to certain states. People travel and get this “Toyota” they travel on days like “Thanksgiving and Christmas” to grandma’s house up north. Guess what with the salt on the roads now southern trucks have the same issue aren’t covered because you don’t live in the North. That kind of thinking will Land Toyota in court over a heavy law suit. When you do all states you leave no stone unturned. Then you have all bases covered. To make it worse they don’t even list Alaska, Montana, the Dakota’s, Colorado etc.
[…] Tundra Headquarters — Toyota is recalling some 110,000 first generation Tundras due to a frame rust issue. Jason opines that this is a good first step by Toyota, but that more still needs to be done. […]
I am a little uneasy here about only recalling in particular states. I have a 2002 Tundra and live in Montana, but travel through Idaho alot like it’s a second home. If anyone has been west, you will know we have the most fridged, windy, snow covered winters anywhere in the US. Our roads from October to May are snowed on, plowed, and de-iced constantly to keep driving safe. So what makes the Eastern states so much more dangerous. In the west we have longer more harsh winters than the east.. so whats the deal. I pamper my Tundra when it comes to maitanace, but use it hard. Heck, its got 127,000 miles on it and never have had any problems at all. I looked under my truck today to see if it was corroding badly.. but due to it being winter here.. It was covered in snow and mud.
All trucks will rust, but some of these pictures look like the owners never paid any attention to the vehicles and weren’t maintained properly. I just cant get over big of a beast my Tundra is in the rugged, steep mountains. This sucker can climb a tree and I never worry about it not running or starting correctly out in the wilderness. They are still the most reliable truck on the market. Bar none.
this is all well and good but can someone tell me how you weld a new piece of metal into a rotted piece of metal. My opinion is toyota is only trying to sooth the beast at this point. the whole frame shock mount which incedentally is also where the proportioner brake valve is mounted is rusted away and hanging. has anyone had this quote recall work done yet? if so how was the outcome
WE HAVE HAD OUR TUNDRA(2000) CONDEMDED LAST APRIL WITH (AT LEAST) 7 HOLES IN THE REAR FRAME. WE FOUGHT WITH TOYOTA AND THEY FINALLY AGREAD TO INSTALL A NEW FRAME (COMPLETE)
OURS IS SITTING WITH OTHERS AT THE DEALER. NOW THEY SAY THERE ARE NO FRAMES AVAILABLE.
Adam – Toyota has stated that they will offer free frame inspections nationwide, and that any vehicles exhibiting this level of rust will be recalled.
Bill – No one has had this work done yet – recall is brand new.
George – That’s interesting. Toyota’s letter to NHTSA talked quite a bit about limited availability of parts…sounds like they’re going to have to have some new frames made.
Just before the recall was announced I brought my 2001 Tundra into the dealership because the parking brake was no working. I was told that the break line had completely rusted through and needed to be replaced an almost a 400 dollar cost. I told them I’d live without the parking brake instead of investing 400 dollars.
Currently I logged a complaint with Toyota and they insist that the rear parking break rusting is not apart of the rust recall. They want me to schedule an appointment to have my truck looked at and asses the rust damage.
Seems to me parts “rusting through” that are on the undercarriage should be apart of the same recall.
I have many questions about this recall. When the dealer inspects the frame is it going to be down by a metalurgist or just a mechanic with a hammer banging on the frame. Do they have some sort of ultrasonic devide that can test the thickness and integrity of the steel. If they replace the cross member that holds up the spare tire, I must agree with Bill above saying how can you weld on the rust. What happens later after Toyota fixes it and the frame rusts out and cracks again while towing my boat. Are they going to cover all the incidentals that happened after the frame breaks, or does my own personal insurance have to cover this. There are too many questions that aren’t being answered. I think by just replacing a rusted out cross member is not going to fix the issue. I guess I’ll just have to sit and wait to see what Toyota comes up with
Frank – Agreed – it’s just a partial fix for a much bigger problem. Until Toyota acknowledges the entire frame is at risk, they’re not going to address many owner’s concerns.
I hope they just buy them back!!! My spare tire fell off about 6 months ago, I have almost no back brakes, no parking brake, and to top it off water some how got into the back quarter panels and I have rust eating away at the side of my truck. I love my truck but don’t think its safe. The engines are great, actully I just had all the pullies and belts changed and water pump. I am going to wait alittle longer in hopes they just do a buy back!!!
My 2002 Tundra has been
taken off the road by Toyota and the state of Mass. due to not being able to pass inspection due to the damage and instability of the frame. The drivers side part of the frame is falling apart. Toyota is being helpful in trying to fix the problem .However I have been told that there are no frames for the older Tundras available.It seems to me that the way to remedy the problem Toyota is having with the Tundra is to have a buy back as was offered for the Tacoma.I understand the financial implications of this. However, Toyota should do the right thing and buy the Tundras back as this was the fault of Toyota and not the consumer.
So will you get a Toyota again?
just had my frame inspected on my 2000 tundra, has a hole in the crumple zone on left front, crossmember ok, was told toyota may call and, offer to buy from me, due to they need a test truck to test spreading the frame rails to install the new crossmembers on other trucks hope they offer me enough money since I still own 4g on it..
Todd – Please keep us updated – I’d really like to talk to someone who has had their truck bought back.
I WAS TOLD THAT THERE WERE TO BE NO “BUY BACKS”
MY DEALER SAYS THEY HAVE 4 SCEDULED FOR FRAMES AND ALL OTHERS WILL BE HANDLED ON A “CASE BY CASE” BASIS.
MY ADVISE TO ANYONE, BE PERSISTANT AND CALL TOYOTA EVERYDAY AND ALSO REGISTER YOUR COMPLAINT WITH THE NHTSB.
GEO.
George – Good to know. What’s most exciting is that you’ve said 4 trucks are scheduled for frames – does that mean full frame replacements?
Jason I agree…. But they have no frames to replace these 4 so they let them sit for along time? It’s showing signs to me they need to buy back the bad frames.
Mickey – Good point. If a truck sits for months waiting for a new frame, does Toyota provide a rental? If so, it’s likely less expensive to buy it back.
George sent me an email, but I think he meant to post the contents here. Here’s what he said:
###
(From George) “Yes. The 4 my dealer has are to get full frames. I would rather take a buy out (like the taco’s) and buy a corolla. Seems hard to understand why they would spend 10-12 k on a frame when book is around 8k.”
###
I agree. I think the “no buy outs” line is just the first thing they’re going to say. Once the economics of this thing really hit them, Toyota will probably find a way to solve this problem with dollars.
I HERD A ADD ON THE LOCAL RADIO STATION ABOUT THE TUNDRA AND RUST COME TO FIND OUT JUST A LOCAL FORD DEALER TRYING TO PUT THE BAD MOUTH ON THE BETTER OF THE TWO DO YOU THINK THE SALT ON THE ROADS UP NORTH AND MID WEST MAY ADD CAUSE ANYWAY HE’S FROM THE SOUTHEAST DON’T STOP NOW TOYOTA A LITTLE MORE UNDERCOATING IT’LL BE OK! P.S.MY 08 TUNDRA ROCKS
I took my ’00 Tundra in last night to be inspected (Michigan), they keep it and gave me a rental car. There was a 4″ inch hole rotted thru the rear crossmember holding the spar tire. Replacing the crossmember creates the problem of the two side frames, as they are scaling very badly. We looked at it together and looked at Toyota’s flowchart plan about this issue, once you get to this point it say’s supply a 1-30 day rental and contact Toyota Corp. for case by case basis.
Kreg – That’s good info – thanks for sharing.
Frank,
My truck’s brake line rotted away (approx 2 years ago). The area of rotting was up inside the drivers side frame, just in front of the rear tire. This was definitely the result of this issue in my opinion. The steel of the frame holding moisture up in there lead to the brake line rotting. I had the line replaced, but in hinsight, it is all the same issue.
Toyota is lucky, as far as I know no one as had fatal brake failure. It made me think about what could have happened once I discovered how bad it was!!!
Any one get a recall notice yet? I haven
So here’s the latest, my rear x-member is fine per toyota dealership. That’s all theyre looking @ right now. Also i found out why i never received a recall notice. Per Toyota even through
1) My truck is/has been registered in NH (SnowBelt)
2) My truck is a 2002, built in 01
Its not an affected to my Model. Per Toyota only certain group of trucks from 00-03 have known Rust issue. However the dealer still inspected my x-member regardless.
Pete – Interesting. I know that the rear x-member is all they “care” about, but it sounds like only certain VIN numbers are suspected…
What is with the frames rusting out on these trucks; my friends have old trucks in St. Cloud , Mn. A 1985 GMC junker and the other a 1997 dodge. There is like a black sticky stuff on them and some light rust but not rotting through. Toyota must not have coated the frames? Too new for rust, I would take the cash and run!
Just had the factory rep take pictures of my frame today. They have to be sent to Corporate for analysis and a decision will be made in the next 2-3 weeks. I will either be given a new frame(most likely) or a buyback offer will be made. I asked what is included with the frame replacement, worried that the old parts would be reused, lines, harnesses, rear springs, rear shocks, lower front end parts, etc are included. Unless the buyback is 150% of KBB, I want a frame. The truck is great and I would hate to lose it. My biggest problem is that they won’t have a pickup to loan me for the time being. They offered me a car but I can’t work out of a car(HVAC/electrician.) They said that they may have to rent one for me. These guys are great so far. (Scranton Toyota, PA)
STILL DRIVING RENTAL !?!?
John – Let us know if you’re offered a buyback. It seems to be a rare offer – frame replacement seems to be somewhat common, however.
I spoke with a case reviewer from corporate over the last few days. They offered to buy back my 2000 Tundra (143,000 miles) for $6,000. When I asked how they came up with this price I was told it was the KBB trade in value. Also at this time they aren’t doing the same program for Tundra owners that they did for the Tacoma’s & there are no replacement frames. Oh ya I have until Monday to except the offer.
DONT OPT FOR $6K BUY OUT!
DEMAND A FRAME. THEY WILL ALSO REPLACE MANY, MANY OTHER PARTS.
(MINE WAS $13,400.00) PLUS A RENTAL.
WHEN I GOT IT BACK I WAS ABLE TO SELL IT FOR $10K! BETER THAN BOOK!
ALWAYS REMEMBER, IF THEIR LIPS ARE MOVING,THEY ARE LIEING…
Mike – Good to know – let us know what you decide. I could definitely see taking the cash, but it’s hard to replace a good old vehicle like that. George makes a good point too.
The rental that they will provide me with will be if they change the frame. If they offer me the same buyback as they did for the Tacomas, I should make out alright. My KBB value is $10,235. The deal they offered before was 1 1/2 times that value. I would take the deal for that, any less, I will take a new frame. Now my new concern is that with all of the other recalls, what will they do about our old trucks?
I’ll let you know what happens.
Hopefully not forget you and others. Keep us posted on what happens.
John – Thanks. As Mickey said, hoping for the best and keep us posted.
They offered me 7k for my 2000 sr5 with 90k. I want a new frame. Their offer was take it or leave it. Said I had 30 days and then they would drop my case.
Ed – According to KBB.com, a 2000 Tundra SR5 Access Cab 2WD automatic with 90k has a value between $3500 (low trade-in) to $8k (maximum suggested retail). Can you tell me if your truck has 2wd, long box, and if it’s a regular cab or not? I’d like to get a sense of how Toyota came up with their number. Thanks.
ED – P.S., that’s using a Boston zip code.
It may not be like the Tacoma’s but if you’re getting top end blue book value you can’t complain about it.
I can complain about it. I wasn’t looking to buy another truck new or used. This truck is in my business which means I will be paying taxes on the income since it was depreciated long ago. Plus paying new excise tax and registration it all adds up to a big PITA.I took care of this truck, it would go another 100k. The truck is 4×4 extended cab. Sorry if I sound bitter.
Ed – No worries – I completely understand. You don’t want to sell what is otherwise a perfectly good vehicle. It looks like Toyota is offering just slightly more than average trade-in. On KBB.com, NADAGuides.com, and Edmunds.com, the average trade-in value for a 2000 Ext. Cab V8 4WD SR5 Tundra with 90k miles falls between $4500 and $6500. So, if you decide to take the cash, you might be able to get a little more money out of them (unless you’ve already negotiated for more).
##
One question – is this offer directly from Toyota, or is this offer from the dealer? The dealership might be offering you trade-in value just to turn around and sell the truck at auction…do you have any sort of settlement agreement or have you spoken to Toyota customer service?
Jason – This offer was directly from Toyota, verbal over the phone, and was told there would be no negotiating. I have called recently to ask why I haven’t received anything in writing but can’t get through. I don’t know if they can be forced into providing new frames.
Why did they go all out for the Tacomas? Seems like the same thing over again and they dont want to getstuck with it. I think there is alot of Tundras out there that are alot more rusted than the owners would think. I dont think they should pay me money for my truck, but they should fix it.
I was offered 6K for my “Motor Trend Truck Of The Year” 2000 Toyota Tundra SR5 Access Cab 2WD truck. I feel this is an insult from the Toyota Motor Corporation. You pay over 20K for a truck and sink thousands in it to keep it up and repair it through the years only to find that the frame was made of substandard materials. So to purchase another Toyota truck I would want an 04 or newer (assuming they are not going to start rusting like their predecessors) and they are 12K plus. So by the time you purchase the truck add taxes and all the extra fees you are looking at over 13K. I don’t expect Toyota to buy me a new truck but less than 50% of the value of a suitable replacement is not acceptable. This problem was caused by Toyota at no fault of their loyal owners. Its time for Toyota to step up and take responsibility for it. If I were to take their 6K I would buy a used Ford or Chevy which would no doubt have a solid frame.
[…] Re: Can you hear that? How soon we forget about this….Toyota Frame Rust Recall Only A Partial Fix | Tundra Headquarters […]
Ed – Good to know – thanks for filling me in. Odd that they won’t put it in writing…but maybe they don’t want people like us to publish it. I’m still somewhat suspicious that the dealership is behind this offer, but I can’t think of why they would do it, so I’m probably wrong. It’s just weird to me that the offer closely matches what the truck would sell for at a local dealer’s auto auction.
Mainehunter – I don’t know why Taco owners received more generous offers. Toyota made the buy-back offer official, whereas Tundra buy-backs seem to be sort of rare and under the table…still, the lack of transparency here is going to cause problems.
Fed Up – I understand where you’re coming from, but let’s be honest – a suitable replacement doesn’t have to be 3-4 years newer. If you travel outside of the N.E., you can find a 2000 Tundra with no rust whatsoever to replace your truck with for about $6k. Still, you’re 100% correct in that you shouldn’t *have* to get rid of this truck. I think Toyota should just fix the frames rather than offering buy-outs – no one is happy with a cash offer unless it’s over market value. As for buying a Ford or a Chevy, you’re simply trading one quality problem for another. They’ve ALL got problems…
Jason, I have spent thousands of dollars repairing this truck. Exhaust manifolds $1000, Oxygen Sensors x 6 $1800, Transmission $2000. Is it wrong to expect the frame to last more than 9 years? Yes all vehicles from all manufactures have their own issues but it does concern me that when identified as a design problem the recalls from Toyota are slow and lack substance. The manifold problem was identified as an issue and there was a program to replace them up to 90K miles. It was not widely broadcast, if you had problems and took your vehicle to the dealer some would cover it and some wouldn’t as noted on this forum earlier. So is it normal to replace exhaust manifolds on all brands of trucks at 100K miles? I don’t think so. The O2 sensors were another problem with no action on Toyotas part. My frustration largely stems from me having to sink $4800 into my “Truck Of The Year” only to have the representative from Toyota tell me they are doing me a favor by offering me $6000 for it. A frame replacement never came up n the conversation. I was given 1 week to make my decision. I thought about it for 2 days and counter offered $9000 which is almost 1.5 times the KBB value, the offer they made the Tacoma owners. I was told this wasn’t a negotiation, final offer. I will not take $6000 for my truck. I will contact them about a frame replacement but I am not to confident they will agree to it.
Fed Up – I hear ya. It really sucks to have a vehicle that you know will drive a long, long time if it wasn’t for the fact the frame is rusting. You won’t get any argument from me as to the fact that Toyota screwed up here. I also agree the way they’ve handled this recall has been pitiful.
When it comes to exhaust manifolds and O2 sensors, those problems are bad too. The thing is, every vehicle has some quality issues. Ford’s Triton V8’s from your same model year are pretty notorious for ejecting spark plugs. Dodge Rams from that model year have huge cracks in dash (not to mention brake problems, steering problems, etc.), GM’s have their issues too. Please don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying that Toyota doesn’t deserve scrutiny here. Simply pointing out that your situation might not necessarily be better if you bought a Ford, GM, or Chrysler.
Still, we come back to the main problem: Toyota and their supplier screwed up and built the frame incorrectly. It’s odd to me that Toyota hasn’t offered to fix the frame on your truck – they’ve offered that to other Tundra owners – but the fact you’re being offered cash is noteworthy. I haven’t heard of too many situations like that either. I think that, at the end of the day, if you have to choose between nothing and $6k, you take the $6k. The only other option is to start some sort of class-action lawsuit (which might be feasible). I’m sure you can find other people here who would join you.
Has Toyota actually replaced frames on tundras? I would like to hear from someone who has had one replaced.
I just called in about my truck. Dealer has had it since Dec 22 and all they can tell me is they have’nt heard from Toyota on my case, sit tight. He mention maybe a buy-back but is’nt sure. I’m still driving a rental, I keep switching rental vehicles as if I’m test driving each for 2-5 days. (camry is the nicest driving car i’ve had so far bar any make?!?!?) This process seems crazy to me as I have seen my Hertz bill be tallied. It would be far smarter on Toyota’s part to buy-back from the start!!
Ed – I’ve talked to a handful of people about this, and yes Toyota is definitely replacing frames on some vehicles.
Kreg – Yes it would. If only Toyota didn’t have “big company disease.”
I just asked a frame shop for a price to replace my frame. He told me the frames come from Japan and would cost $7400. plus $2000. for labor and other parts. Maybe this is why Toyota is going the buy out route, even though I’m sure their cost would be much lower for them.
Hey fellas, just another victim here. I owned a 2000 model Tundra which I bought from the local dealer, Ira Toyota of Danvers,Ma. when it was a year old with 7,862 miles. This was the two wheel drive version,5 speed,8 foot bed, basically no options. Oddly enough 98% of the time I never even worked it, just getting around in it. In fact when I sold it the mileage was a meager 53,000 miles. All my driving was local and I had motorcycles and bicycles but I did always make it a point to drive the truck every 3 to 5 days. The last couple of years of ownership I always thought that something wasn’t right when I looked at the frame. It was as if I had backed in the salt water to haul lobster traps with it or drove behind a salt and sander everyday, the truck frame just didn’t look like other trucks or similar year or older for that matter. Well in Oct. of 08′ the x member holding the spare completely rotted off, not sure where my spare went. I also noticed the left rear upper shock mount that also serves as a bracket for where the brake lines to each rear wheel meet was literally rotting apart. Big flakes of rust were just peeling off the frame from the gas tank back to the rear bumper. It was a horror show. I drove to the dealer where I bought it and made them get underneath the truck and observe the damage, raised my voice polite yet vigilantly made my point. They would do nothing but recommend I call Toyota corporate which I did and was told to go see the local dealer again. In the end it seemed like a waste of time so at the very least I filed a complaint with the national highway safety commission. In the meantime I made a educated guess the the truck would see me thru till June of 09′ as that was when I needed a inspection sticker and to renew my insurance, which it did. In the meantime that shock bracket that was rotted became much worse with the shock actually banging in to the top of the bed at times. I took a couple of bungy chords and wrapped them around the bracket and the frame just to stabilize it some for peace of mind as the brake lines were attached at that point. Believe it or not that little jury rig made a difference in tightening up the ride, pathetic but what could I do, I was unemployed and it was my only wheels all paid for. Well when last June came it was time to make a decision, fix or sell because Toyota hadn’t done anything at this point. I put the truck for sale on craigslist for 2k and sold it to some guy who claimed he was a used car dealer the next day. I pointed out the problems with the frame. It was a sad day, drivetrain wise the truck performed like new. I have since replaced it with a Chevy silverado 1500 same exact spec. with no options. I must say the Toyota v6 had a smiggen more pep to it but the Chevy is just as smooth. I miss the Toyota gearbox as the Chevy stick shift seems a bit more quirky but the Chevy clutch is ironically less grabby and easier to start from a stop smoothly. The Chevy is a prettier truck in my opinion but a little more of a energy hog in the safety sense with the auto light feature. I know all makes have their short comings and when I bought my Toyota I bought into the rep for reliability, let me tell you the Chevy is much more substantial when it comes to the frame. More reinforcement a thick coating almost like undercoat on it. That of it self makes the Chevy a better truck. I can always repair what’s under the hood but cancer of the frame there is no remedy. However now I am a fanatic. I purchased a product known as Kiwi fluid film and before winter I sprayed the whole underneath of the vehicle with this lanolin based oil to protect it from road salt. Had I done this a couple times a year with the Toyota in all fairness it may of save the frame from needless corrosion. I imagine one could even just get a airless paint sprayer and use kerosene to the same effect. Good luck to everybody that can at least value from the recall as I have already dealt with mine. I wish I could of waited longer but it wasn’t possible. I miss my Tundra and I feel like I didn’t get my money’s worth out of it.
I own a 2002 std cab long bed Tundra with 190K +. Truck going into dealer for second time on monday so regional Toyota rep can look at hole in front of frame and all of the rust and scale. I was told by toyota northeast office rep that they will either replace frame or buy back truck. I would consider buy back only if it is the same deal as tacoma owners got 150% of KBB excellent condition plus $1000 towards new toyota and any and all other incentives. I planned to drive truck for 5-6 more years payment free but this is not to be the case. Was told that with hole in front of frame it will not sticker this year. Dealership here in my area already has 12 other tundra’s sitting on the lot all with holes and scale!!!
What part of the country are you at Keith.
UPDATE: frame was looked at by region rep. and now have case open with toyota, have been called and told my case in reveiw and a rep will be calling with a by back offer,, since i work for toyota as a tech the region rep. also informed me that i was lucky to get mine in, he told me that toyota desided that if your tundra is a production year 2000 or older that, toyota is saying, not our problem, deal with it,, just to inform you all loyal toyota owners
Ed I am located in New Hampshire. Any one wanting to see a group of rusting Tundra’s frames has to look no farther then Hurlbert Toyota in Epping, New Hampshire. From posts I have read on other sites I think this is the biggest collection at a dealership so far. If anyone else has info on other dealer stocks of old Tundra’s put up a post so we can all keep tabs on this problem.
Toyota Tundra owners in the Greater Boston Area here is the email for a contact person from the investigative news team at WCVB TV in Boston. I urge any owners in New England to take the time to email this person explain what you are experiencing with Toyota and your truck and hopefully we can get some news coverage of our problems and put some pressure on toyota. These guys were the first to break this story and say in their last broadcast that they wanted to stay on top of this story. [NOTE: We can’t allow email addresses to be published here due to spam concerns. Here’s a link to WCVB’s contact page instead]
http://www.thebostonchannel.co.....index.html
contact for WCVB TV in Boston, MA
Keith My Tundra is at Portland Toyota in Maine. If you check one of my earlier posts I wasn’t happy with their offer. Not enough money, I would much rather have a new frame. They have a bunch Tundras there. I don’t know how to force them to replace the frames. I would still like to hear from someone who has had their frame replaced and details on what happened.
Ed I have not heard from nor read a post of a single person who has gotten a new frame.
Anyone interested in getting the word out to the press here in the North East. Here is the email address to the point person/ contact at WCVB TV in Boston they broke this frame rust story. I have had to doctor the email address because the first post was blocked by this site. I urge anyone in the North East to send these guys mails with your stories and may be these guys can put some pressure on Toyota for us.
http://www.thebostonchannel.co.....index.html
So on a 2002 with 190k on it you want them to replace the frame or give you 150% of thr book value? Are you out of your mind? Did it serve its purpose? Did it meet the warranty requirements? You are asking for something for nothing. Wasn’t there a comment about the guy who has his Tundra for a year and wanted to return it for the gas pedals sticking and everyone was saying he was wrong. So how does this sit? If I was them I would laugh at you want ask what you needed again. You should be happy they are willing to do anything but no that is not good enough. Keep it up and guys like this will cause Toyota to be bankrupt.
Kate,
Kate I understand your concerns I do not want toyota to go bankrupt either. I have a truck that is un safe to drive and from my research and talking with others it seems that the rust proofing that was done on the frame and all other components sharing the same process IE brake lines, mounts, shocks, rear axles all are rusting and corroded on my truck. I have a 2002 that should still be viable to drive today. I have driven every vehicle i have ever owned to 275k+ and this is the first time I will not be able to do this. Toyota has marketed their vehicles for years of being able to achieve high odometer readings 300K +. I do not feel I am out of place for expecting an outcome for my truck which is the same that was offered to Tacoma owners. They got the buy back I have outlined in my post. 150% of KBB I have three friends who got this buy back for their Tacoma’s when their frames failed.
Guys sorry to say this but I find it very suspect that after Keith posts the email address for a contact at a news organization investigating Toyota. Some one jumps on and posts a comment on Keith’s prior post. I do not want to be mean spirited but we all need to watch out for people connected with Toyota and their associated PR agencies jumping into our supportive posts ad trying to lessen and talk down the serious problems we are having with our vehicles. Kate if you are not with Toyota I am sorry but if you are we simply want what we are do either proper repairs be done to our trucks or buy them back at a fair price based off of prior Toyota Buy Back Programs.
Kate,
What about my 2001 Tundra with 90k miles on it?? I Should just throw it to the scrap pile? My frame is shot and I wash the f***ing thing frame and body at least once a week in the winter time. I dont have money just sitting around to go buy a new truck! What about Toyota’s stupid a** adds on tv…legendary reliability?
Keith are you saying Tundra Headquarters blocked your email? Anytime you post a website it does go under moderation. This is until the admin/Jason views what you sent to make sure it’s clean etc. NOw Keith to get 100% of KBB value is doing good. Just because the Tacoma’s got the 150% doesn’t mean that everyone else that has an issue gets the same. Then on top of wanting 150% you want an extra $1,000 for a trade in and all other incentives? A little bit much don’t you think? Why not just ask for the new vehicles title while you at it. Who knows you may get one.
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Kate there was a guy with a year old Tundra wanting his money back since they had this recall but he crashed it into the dealership and stated his gas pedal stuck. I don’t agree with the 150% of KBB but they should get excellent rating of KBB value for selling not trading it in. Also just because it may seem they are trying to make Toyota go bankrupt, it’s still a Toyota issue since Toyota admitted the issue of the frame not being up to par. Toyta is liable for that.
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Anonymous I don’t think I read or seen anyone from Toyota on this website unless that person was a tech. Jason/Admin owns this site and it has no affiliation with Toyota.
[…] real car is like. I agree with predfan that I helped to hijack the thread (apologies to Lucky) Toyota Frame Rust Recall Only A Partial Fix | Tundra Headquarters Toyota Tundra Camshaft “Problem” | Tundra Headquarters Toyota Camry hybrid lead […]
I’m not with Toyota. I just have a low tolerance for ignorance. I believe that if said product operates as advertised and meets the requirements as stated by the manufacture then it is not the manufactures fault. In my eyes this ranks up there with people suing McD’s for having hot coffee spilled on them.
-nothing will last forever!
-if you received 8 years of service from it then what’s the issue? Do you buy tires and complain when they wear out after the tear wear is surpassed that is stated by the manufacture? What’s the difference.
-I truly see it as Toyota was being nice by doing it in the first place with Tacoma’s, now that individuals are trying to take advantage of the system they will probably in the future stand by the letters of the warranty to a T.
-what would be the outcome in court, do you think the judge will find Toyota at fault when it meet the warranty stipulations? It went beyond what the manufacture warranties.
-where does it stop? Will the individuals that had the frame replaced be wanting it done again in 8 years?
-mainehunter, sorry it happened but it did. Did it meet the warranty?? Here is something to think about, under coating. I would recommend it next time.
-whats the difference between all the individuals wanting their frame replaced or bought back after 8 years and the guy who wanted his money back after owning it for one year (Minus what he did to the dealership).
Previous comment was from me, sorry.
Kate,
undercoating….done that with POR-15, Rust Bullet, and now Fluid Film. I dont buy a truck to last 8 years, if I wanted that I would have paid 3-4 thousand less and purchased a Ford or Chevy. The funny thing is Toyota reps spound like you, prob you work for them…I do know I will never buy another Toyota and I will tell every person looking for a truck not to buy Toyota.
I had my 2000 Tundra inspected about 2 1/2 weeks ago and got a case #. The frame is totally rotted and I’ve been in a rental waiting to hear from corporate with my options. TODD’s post that reads – “the region rep. also informed me that i was lucky to get mine in, he told me that toyota desided that if your tundra is a production year 2000 or older that, toyota is saying, not our problem, deal with it…” – has me a little nervous. Has anyone else heard this? I’m trying to be patient but this is a very unsettling proccess. I would love to hear from other recent 2000 Tundra owners and their outcomes.
Neal – Northeast,
Guy I know has a 2000 Tundra he purchased new, he has had all maint done at the same dealership. They have even undercoated it at the dealership. He was told after two weeks, he was on his own. He has opened another case with Toyota…..
Todd – Thanks for the tip.
Keith – I understand your frustration, but the 150% of KBB + $1k seems a little too optimistic. Fair value is replacement cost…and that’s closer to 100% of KBB average value (somewhere between full retail and poor condition trade value). It sucks you have to replace your truck, but as Kate says Toyota doesn’t owe you anything extra.
Kate – I disagree with the idea that Toyota doesn’t owe owners anything. While you’re absolutely correct in that Toyota’s warranty is long expired, Toyota can’t advertise their legendary reliability when they have products less than 10 years old rusting apart. Fair is fair – I wouldn’t expect Toyota to buy me a new car, but I wouldn’t expect them to tell me to pound sand either. Toyota made a mistake on these trucks – if the owners of these trucks had bought models from Ford, GM, or Chrysler, they wouldn’t be driving trucks with rusted frames.
Mainehunter, So let me get this straight. You could have saved acouple thousand dollars and have a Ford or Chevy that does not have this issue. Is that ironic or what? Personally I hope they don’t do anything for it. I think its wrong. I wanna see it go to court, that would be hilarious. I can hear the judge now “so it there was NO issue while it was covered under warranty? You have had this vehicle for 8 years and it has 91k and you want the manufacture to replace the frame?”. That would be hilarious! Why don’t you start a petition, gather up all the whiners and get everyone to sign it. The T100 was better than this pos, funny thing is it was a failure too. You bought it deal with it!
Mainehunter,
Was the guy that you know ever put into a rental? Maybe his frame was inspected and wasn’t that bad so it was deemed “fine to continue driving” thus no buy back or repair was offered? Thanks for your previous response.
Neal – Northeast ,
They told him it was bad and he should not drive it….but they didnt keep it. They had the rep look at it last week and thats when they told him he was on his own.
You should check out the tundrasolutions site, theres lots of info and pics from other Tundra owners
This is a nightmare for Toyota. Every time some non Tundra owner gets on this forum and tells us owners that we should not expect to get more than the warranty period out of our Tundra, and we are lucky Toyota is willing out of the goodness of their heart to offer us its KBB value as a buy back, their market share for the big trucks goes down. Keep it up people, this is exactly what it will take to get them to do the right thing. I don’t want or need to sell my truck and quite frankly think that an extra $3000 for my troubles is more than reasonable.
Again, mine is a 2000 “Motor Trend Truck of the Year”. Still has the sticker on the back window and the sticker is in better shape than the frame is. Maybe Toyota should have coated the frames in the same material as the sticker.
I was offered $6000 for my truck by Toyota so I
Dropped my Truck off this morning at dealership for frame inspection from Toyota rep. Just got call back from dealer that frame failed inspection. Waiting to here back from Toyota Boston office to see what will be done with truck neither dealer or inspector could or would really comment on anything.
If you are a member of Face Book consider yourself invited to join it’s latest group Rusting Tundra’s
Worked everything out with Toyota Boston office and got into 2009 Tacoma ext. cab 4×4 to drive until Toyota figures out what they are going to do with my Tundra.
I did how ever have to emphasize items listed below to get loaner truck to use.
1.) Though Toyota field inspection rep said frame was safe after he confirmed it failed the test. I educated inside rep who was very polite that with hole in frame truck will not pass NH state inspection and if the State of New Hampshire deems the truck not safe to drive that trumps any claims made by a manufacturer.
2.) I informed the rep that I was aware of the 11 Tundra’s on my dealers lot and informed her that I had looked at them and confirmed that my truck was in the same condition as those which had been pulled from the road and parked there.
*But most importantly I emphasized that I did not feel safe in the truck and under no circumstances would I drive it off the lot.
I worked with both Sara and then Valerie the Mgr. in the North East Boston office.
These are two very nice ladies guys if you are nice to them they will help you out. If your case is still being handled by the Toyota Experience Center request that your case manger move it up the line to regional office these folks are handling things in the field.
Guys here is the link to the House Oversite Committee. These folks are scheduled to have Toyota Execs before them to testify.So I encourage all to follow the link to site. Click on committee and find your local congress man or women and send them an email. Hopefully one of them could ask the questions we have been asking for months and this time Toyota will be under oath.
http://oversight.house.gov
The only question needed “Did the frame last as advertised and stated in the warranty”?? Better but them under oath to answer that one!!!
Anonymous:
The frame on my 2000 Tundra was replaced by Toyota . I started my complaint on Oct 7 , 2009. The truck was taken by Toyota right during the last week of October. I filed complaints with the NHTSA and the MA Registry of Motor Vehicles after the local Toyota dealer passed the frame through a safety inspection. A compliance officer from the RMV came to my residence removed the inspection sticker and immediately rejected the vehicle. After informing Toyota of the problem, I was provided with a rental vehicle. The Tundra was finally returned to me during the last week of January 2010. It is my opinion that Toyota would not have done anything for me unless I had taken the above steps which was to have their inspection station pass the truck and then notify the Registry of Motor Vehicles.
Toyota has no intention of helping me with my rusty 2001 Tundra TRD, 110k miles. I could not sit around and wait for Toyota, I never recieved a letter in the mail as the recall said. I took it to the dealer and they gave me a hard time, telling me it was just surface rust and I will have that in maine. So Toyota has lost my money, I traded the Tundra this weekend and bought a 2010 Nissan Titan. I would have bought another Tundra had Toyota treated me with respect.
Congrats Mainehunter on your new purchase, you will be pleased.
Maine Hunter best of luck with your new Nissan. Had one before my Tundra.
Jim – Fascinating. I think you’re right – passing a frame that should have failed likely got that dealer in some very hot water, not to mention drawing attention to the bigger problem. Good work – I think you helped get the ball rolling for everyone.
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mainehunter – I understand completely. Congrats on the new Titan – those trucks are very nice.
I hate to say it but I have given up hope just found out that
NHTSA closed case on January 26th , 2010 . If the feds are not working on this anymore Toyota has a free license to blow us off.
anonymous – Not necessarily. I read the letter from Toyota to NHTSA, and Toyota was clear in that they would go beyond the wording of the recall on vehicles that had excessive frame rust. I think people with 2000-2003 Tundras should have their frames inspected ASAP – Toyota is going to fix them if they’re not right…but the clock is ticking. I don’t think anyone with one of these trucks should expect help beyond the end of the year.
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Also, 04-06 Tundra owners living in the N.E. will be notified that they’re entitled to some free rust prevention work at some point this spring (Toyota committed to that action in their letter to NHTSA).
What’s up? Have they completely forgot about us tundra owners with the onset of other troubles? Wouldn’t you think they would have at least sent the letters out. I at least didn’t get one. I have a 2003 tundra with heavy rust and have been waiting to see what they do before I pursue a new vehicle. Just hope nothing bad happens in the mean time.
Jim – I think the letters are definitely “in the mail,” but if I were you I wouldn’t wait. Your local Toyota dealer will complete a frame inspection free of charge. If your truck has a rusting rear cross-member, you’re entitled to a new one. If a new one can’t be attached, you will receive either a replacement frame or a buy-back offer. Whatever you do, DON’T WAIT. Go now. Waiting is the wrong play.
Still no Answer on my 2000 i keep calling and all they can tell me is that my case is under review, i know that i am only talking to a middle man, but this is really serious, i asked the guy if this was going to drag out till my state inspection ran out and i was no longer able to drive the veh. all i got was, that he was going to add that to my case, this is bull and i work for them..
Todd – I am in the same boat. This is becoming absurd. My 2000 Tundra has been sitting in a dealer lot for over a month. I call and get “We won’t know anything for another week or two” every week. I read articles everyday with executives saying that they have learned their lesson, they need to get back to making quality and reliability a standard, they will own up to their mistakes, they need to do a much better job responding to customers in a timely manner, etc… Another day goes by and no communication on an issue that they have been aware of since Fall 2009. They seem to have no idea what it is like to have your vehicle basically deemed worthless and then have you sit and wait while no one can give you ANY clue about what the situation is.
What to do if your vehicle passes the recall inspection at the dealer, but you still have rust problems that should be addressed? In my case rust has perforated the truck bed from below at the spots where it is attached to the frame. This is of no concern to the dealer, but will soon make the bed unusable.
Todd and Neal – I think part of the problem is “pedal gate,” but I feel your pain. Now that Toyota has a process in place, this should be going faster.
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Colleen – Rust in the bed itself isn’t covered – Toyota is only looking at rust on the frame. Rust in body work is warrantied for 5 years – after that, you’re on your own.
Jason – What is the “process in place” that you refer to. You also mentioned that you read the letter from Toyota to the NHTSA, and you also mentioned that letters are “in the mail.” I have been following this very closely and haven’t heard any mention of any of these things. Do you have some knowledge that we don’t? Any info is greatly appreciated.
Neal – The “process” isn’t anything formal, but the basic plan is that each dealer’s service manager can request a full or partial frame replacement at Toyota’s expense. If the dealer makes a compelling case to Toyota, they will either replace the frame or buy the truck back. SO, if you want to get some movement on your case, the dealership’s service manager is your best bet. Getting that person on your side – using a combination of persistence and courtesy – is the best tactic for getting your case handled. The fact that it’s been sitting this long either means the dealer isn’t being proactive enough, or they’ve got bigger problems to work on.
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As for “in the mail,” Toyota committed to NHTSA that they would begin notifying owners of the frame rear cross member recall in February 2010. Keep in mind the word “begin,” – they usually need a few weeks to get these things done (as unbelievable as that sounds).
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This knowledge is based on reading a copy of a letter from Toyota to NHTSA + interviewing some dealers in the N.E. off the record.
I understand, however, the frame of my truck is very rusted. The rust in the bed comes from below–from contact with the rusty frame. This was just the symptom that made me research and find out that my truck was on a recall list. What about the criteria for “passing” the dealer inspection? I got the feeling that this was just a way of getting rid of me.
“Unfortunately, this recall will not satisfy many owners of 1st generation Tundras with rusting frames. While it’s important to replace the rear cross member, many owners have related stories to us of Tundras that can not be aligned, broken suspension mounts, and a myriad of minor problems that are symptomatic of a rusted frame.”
Amen,C
Colleen – I think the dealers have to be very careful with their inspections. If they say a truck is safe, and a government inspection says it’s not, that dealer is in some very hot water. SO, I think they’re doing their best to be balanced…but you might go to a couple of dealers if you don’t like the first answer you get.
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As for your second point, Toyota is doing more than replacing the rear cross member, but it’s on a “case-by-case” basis. This isn’t very transparent, and that makes it hard for anyone to trust them to do the right thing. Still, we’re seeing a lot of comments from people who are getting frames and/or checks, and I’ve talked to a couple of dealers who have done quite a few buy-backs, so I think Toyota is moving in the right direction.
Right, there is the feeling that there is a conflict of interest when the dealer does the inspection. Here there are no state inspections that vehicles have to pass for comparison. Can I take my vehicle to other dealers for the recall? I thought maybe they crossed the VIN off a list, and that was it.
Colleen – I don’t think you can get more than one inspection, but it’s worth a shot. If the dealer found no issue in their inspection, your best bet is to a) photograph the damage b) register a complaint with NHTSA (including photos) and c) get an independent dealer or repair shop to complete a frame inspection.
Hi everyone,
I promised to keep you posted so here goes. As of now, I still don’t have an answer as to whether they will replace the frame or buy the truck back. I understand that they have bigger issues at this time and do not hold a grudge. I have been helped by the dealership for the meantime though. They have provided me with a 2010 Sienna until they make up their mind. I use the truck for work(heating /AC.) but the van will work for now. I was told that it may be several weeks/months until a decision is made. On the plus side, the van get 21.7 MPG for me when the truck gets 14.7. So far, I am still happy and impressed with Toyota. Hopefully, I will get the frame replacement. I will keep you up to date.
John – It’s pretty unbelievable that Toyota needs weeks to make a decision. I don’t know that there’s a solution, but I’m having a hard time with the fact they can’t get things done more quickly.
ok been in a loaner 2010taco since dec when they deemed my truck unsafe, well it had 4 miles on it but now has 10k on it, I am a contractor and NEED A TRUCK!! little thought is when they deem it unsafe and give it back to you and say oh well, remember they fixed or bought back others in the same condition so if in fact you get hurt or hurt someone else i think the court may sound more like ” Mr Toyota can you explain to the court why you purchased or repaired other truck in this simillar condition but refused Mr joe blows truck the same treatment? and no Mr Blow sits before us in a wheel chair because of it.” CAN YOU SAY BILLIONS !!! once they do for one they are obligated i believe to do for all. imagine if all saftey recall issues went like this! stay firm but i think pushin for the 150 % BUYBACK is a little much. I dont wanna make a profit but i dont wanna take a bath either here. gimme kbb and im GOOONE LIKE THE WIND TO MY LOCAL GM DEALER TO BUY A NEW TRUCK .
I was told that they need the time to decide if it is feasible to change the frame or more efficient to buy the truck back. My truck has most of the options that it could have and the price of the frame replacement is about the KBB value…at least if they don’t run into troubles under there.
I don’t have a problem waiting a while because the frame is still solid. The penetration is in one spot and smaller than a dime. With the loaner that they gave me, I can still work 90% of my jobs and I can still use the truck if I need to do so, for the larger items that I need.
At least they care. Imagine GM coming back after 7 years out of warranty and saying that they will cover anything. Same for Ford or anyone else. I still believe in Toyota and this is driving it home for me.
I can’t think of and vehicle that hasn’t had some recall in it’s history. Most are something small and simple. I know that Toyota has dropped the ball lately, but most of the problems that they are famous for now are in other vehicles also, its just those other companies are owned by the Government and bad press would hurt them. Manufacturers make parts for whomever will buy them, Toyota is not the only one buying from these manufacturers.
All car makers have slipped up, and we let them. At least Toyota is trying to fix it.
John your right other brands are having issues. Take GM’s power steering pump recall on 1 million plus vehicles. That’s a shame. But here is the kicker. They have a issue and are going to fix it. Guess who made the part? A company partially owned by Toyota. Yhea you heard right JTEKT Corp makes the power steering pumps that are being recalled in the GM models. So yes other brands are having issue, it seems to be due to Toyota. They are contaminating other vehicles with their inferior parts. I don’t expect you to understand what I’m saying because your TRUCK IS RUSTING IN HALF and it seems to be ok. Has any other manufactures had that issue? Like you said others are having issues, so who else’s frame in rusting in half? So why are you expecting a new frame or buyback? The warranty period is over correct? I juat wanna say thanks for taking advantage of the situation and force the cost of Toyota’s to go up to pay for your truck that has served its purpose. As you should know nothing last for ever, be a man and except it! Not a whiny ___!! But hey its ok someone has to do it and seem good at it!!! By the way do you charge the people to fix their heating and *9? Why its broke and is apperently the fault of the manufacture even if its out of warrenty. This also applys to people who did not have their units cleaned, right. Didn’t Toyota say part of the problem was cause by lack of maintenance? Over all its Toyota fault! They should have told everyone that had issues with a vehicle out side of it warrenty period to deal with it. It lasted what 8 years, served it purpose. But hey Toyota is just reinforcing the whining generation. Why work for it if you can whine and get it for nothing. What next welfare?
Rusting in half and all over was my 78 Camaro. I happened to take it to Boston for the winter and that was my mistake. It was cancer city on that car. I had to find another body to swap out the engine and tranny. Nothing like stepping into the car and your foot goes through the floorboard. Can you say ooops! Eddy yes you’re right about the company being owned by Toyoda. If I’m not right Toyoda only owns half of the company and not to long ago they acquired it. So you can’t just blame Toyoda on that. You’re acting just like the LA Times.
Mickey, is that anther lie? Kinda like the Delco stereo that you seem to have made up??
Hello everyone. I am in the same situation as some of you. My 2000 Tundra was inspected at a Toyota dealership in January. They found an 8 inch hole in the frame and told me that the vehicle was unsafe to drive. I spoke to my independent mechanic and he wanted to inspect the vehicle. He confirmed their findings and recommended I contact Toyota. That was one month ago. My vehicle is sitting at my mechanics shop and I am waiting to hear back from Toyota. I was given a case number, and it was transferred to a local field office. I was told I would hear from them in 3-5 business days, but I haven’t heard from them yet. I’m lucky I have access to another vehicle, but I miss my truck. If anyone has any advice to share, I would appreciate it.
todd,
i would not let toyota know you have alternative transportation. They should provide a vehicle for you to drive. You need to get vehicle to local dealers lot once you hear back from regional rep. In my area I have driven to 4 dealers to check their lots. In just one corner of my state there are now 34 tundra’s sitting at dealers while toyota corporate determines what they are going to do.
I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan. My 1st generation tundra has rust everywhere. The leaf springs, the rear cross member and where it mounts into the frame, the frame from front to back. I’ve seen older Tacoma’s more road worthy than my truck. The rear breaks do seem fine however and have been fine, showing less wear than the front breaks as it should be and working ok. On the front, the sway bar ends rusted and broke, after replacing them with toyota replacement parts, they started to rust again within a year, so i finally went and bought moog ends and put those on instead. The moogs have been on through this past winter and are showing no signs of rusting. I find this interesting. Toyota’s supposed oem parts rusted within a year…the moogs lasted through a salty, cold, long winter with little to no wear. I only drive my truck 40 miles a day at most. There is no reason to show this kind of wear on a 10 year old vehicle. Especially when I can find 40 year old cars up here, that have been sitting in the elements for atleast 10 years without moving, with less rust on them. Not to mention the numerous ball joint problems (lowers mostly, the uppers have been typical for a pickup), tie rod problems, the alignment cams rusting and needing to be replaced fully, not just the guts. I’ll finish up by saying, i understand normal wear and tear. I have owned many vehicles. This is far from normal wear and tear. Unless you want to do nothing, but fix the truck. I have a 93 Beretta in better shape.
Heres a link to a story outlining a letter toyota sent to dealers yesturday.
http://www.reuters.com/article.....4420100310
Here’s an update. Looks like Yota will recall all 00-03 Tundras, not just those sold in cold weather states.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/35786931/site/14081545
Firstly, I did not go to Toyota complaining about the frame. I knew that my truck is older but they took it upon themselves to extend the warranty, which is great and partly why I bought a Toyota. Next, I didn’t even know that I had a rust penetration, by the way, it is the size of a dime, not “in half.” They found it and set off the alarms. They said/say that they want to make it right. I have not forced or even bothered them in any way shape or form. If you had work done to your home and years later the contractor wanted to check it out, found something and wanted to fix it for free, would you show him the door and say “No Thanks.”?
I guess that if you listen to Eddy, Toyota is the Devil, the root of all evil.
Maybe you just didn’t get it. You may not be complaining but isn’t asking 150% value alittle much. Dime or half, it doesn’t matter. Its the beginning of the end! About the home comment, no I would let them but I wouldn’t put stipulations on it like new wiring harness, shocks or buy it back at 150% value. That’s taking advantage of the situation and someones kindness! Take the shocks for instance they are a consumable item, they wear out. So why should they pay for new shocks for you when you got your use out of them? Something for nothing, right! Why not! Shoe fits wear it. If you say its all them that started this then why do you even care what happens as long as you have your vehicle back that looks the same in a safe condition! But hey if I knew I could get something for free after how many years I would buy one too! Its kinds like “sorry Mr. Dealer I know I have had it for 7 years and I have put over 90,000 miles on it and its out of warranty BUT I want it fixed or you will buy it back at 150%”. If I was the dealer and someone told me 150% buyback was a option I would have laughed and told them they need to leave and not done anything at all to help them! If anyone asked I the dealership would have stated that we where going to do it and reinstall a new frame with all the old components (shocks, wiring harnesses) and the customer didn’t want old reinstalled and wanted 150% value instead. See the dealer would have fixed the vehicle but the greedy money hungry owner would have cut his nose off despite his face! The dealer would be free and clear saying I was going to fix his vehicle, not go bankrupt rebuilding his old truck with new parts!
Eddy,
If Toyota stepped up and bought back Tacoma’s for 150% of KBB then it would only seem right that they offer Tundra owners the same program. Our trucks were made at the same time using the same suppliers and the same metal prep /rust proofing. I feel bad that Toyota is having all of the problems they are how ever I expect that they would treat everyone the same and treat them fairly.
I have to say, for as many problems as my tundra as had…and as big of a rant i went on a couple weeks ago. I still should say that Toyota is trying to step up to the plate more than any of the other big auto makers. I do think something needs to happen, be it buy back or a complete frame rebuild. You cant really put a band aid on a chainsaw wound.
What other manufacture has had this issue? Since your on this subject maybe that’s Toyota’s problem. They need to step up to the plate and let their balls drop! Stop being walked all over. They maybe number 1 as some say but they are falling faster and Ford doesn’t have any problems telling owners they are full of shit and its out of warranty! Keep milking Toyota and it will run dry one day. They will be just like GM financially but with worse quality. They need to pull it together and in a hurry. If I was running things I would tighten up the reins on dealers, manufacturing planets, engineers and OWNERS. The plants, engineers and dealerships need a knot yanked in them to make things smoother and focus on quality. This whole frame issue, remember when Toyota said yes there was a issue at manufacturing but the lack of maintenance by the owner contributed. That tells me that besides the fact they are out side of the warranty period that Toyota should not be held responsible. Where is it gonna stop? As no name said well 150% is only fair they did it for Tacoma’s, Grow up. Reality check, life is not fair but this is the mentality of owners. You did it for them what about us. There is a couple of generations that think about ME and what has everyone done for me! Well they are gonna screw everyone else! So good job to the ME’s!
Well just saw the second tacoma in a week sitting at a dealership with the toyota form on the left side of the windshield noting that it was now the property of Toyota Motors Corp. Well folks the tacoma buy back is still on. Maybe toyota is waiting to buy up all of the tacoma’s before they start buying up tundra’s so they have a better handle on what this is going to cost them.
Eddy: I see your points and concerns. The point I am trying to make is i’ve seen 40 year old vehicles that have sat in the elements for 10 years up here (upper peninsula, michigan), that are in better shape. It is a real problem for some of us. A person buys a vehicle and takes care of it, such as i have, you expect results from that. In MY experience, i have not gotten the results expected. The frame is rotting from front to back. I am currently working on a demolition derby car. A 68 dodge polara, to which the frame is in better shape than my 2000 tundra. Less holes, less rot. As far as the big three go, pertaining to problems like this. All of them could have done recalls. I have a buddy, with a dodge v10. The block is rusting through, not to mention idle problems that chrysler has no answer for. I do not see 2000 chevy’s and fords with frame rot issues (but many other issues), dodge is a different story. Personally i am tired of these companies building things that only last as long as the company needs them to, in order to trap people into buying another new vehicle in ten years, when some of us work hard to make sure we really dont have to do that. I see your concerns and i agree to a point. Even after all this, im still giving toyota credit, money isnt a problem for toyota. I still see toyotas rolling off the lot and they are still a better quality than most when new, they just need to make them last and in my view, correct the problems with this trucks. Im not really looking for a handout, im looking to make it right. I invested in them, because i trusted them…they dropped the ball, now i would like them to make it right, be it a buy back, fixes to my frame, a replacement frame, or a buy back, with the stipulation of buying a new truck at a discount, shit, who knows. But something to justify the thousands i’ve spent, buying and maintaining, just to have the truck fail anyways. If a person has these problems with their tundra, and they’ve done all the shit i’ve done, they know how it feels. I could have went on many vacations..instead a grand here and there to fix it. It would be a great truck if the quality was as promised.
I find it interesting that Eddy and all the other people who are criticizing us Tundra owners with rusted frames for expecting Toyota to treat us the same as the Tacoma owners don’t actually own a Tundra with a rusted frame. They us a lot of phrases like “I would” or “If it were me”. Well its not you and I hope for your sake it never is. When I asked for 1.5 times the KBB I stated that I would have to buy a 2004 or newer to ensure I won’t have the rust problem again and Jason told me I wouldn’t have to buy an 04 or newer, just buy one from the non-recall states. Well Jason, if it doesn’t effect all 00-03 tundras then why are they recalling them? I stick by my request for 1.5 times the KBB and apologize to no one for it. Its the right thing to do for the people who actually own a Tundra and those of you who don’t just consider yourself lucky.
hey EDD ED N EDDY, U MUST HAVE A TON OF TOYOTA STOCK HUH? WORRIED ITS GONNA FALL OUT N U WILL LOSE YOUR RETIREMENT? WELL GUESS WHAT BUDDY, TOYOTA HAS KNOWN ABOUT THE SHIT FRAME ISSUES FOR YRS AND NEVER REACTED TO IT TRIED TO DENY IT LIKE A PERSON WITH A CANCER WHO WONT GO FOR A BIOPSY TIL IT TO LATE! SO I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THEM SORRY. THEY WERE THE ONES WHO CAME UP WITH THE 150 buY BACK ON THE TACOS SO NOW THEY SHOULD DO THE SAME FOR US. OH BTW DO YOU KNOW WHY THE TUNDRAS WERE NOT INCLUDED IN THE INITIAL ISSUE? ITS BECAUSE THE PRICE OF THE TUNDRA WAS SEVERAL THOUSAND DOLLARS HIGHER WHICH MENT FEWER OF THEM SOLD WICH MENT FEWER PEOPLE SCREAMING WITH THE COMPLAINTS SO THEY SHUT UP THE BIGGEST BUNCH FIRST. BELIEVE ME THIS WAS TOTALLY CALCULATED BY TOYOTA. YHEY KNEW FROM THE MOMENT THE BOUGHT THE FIRST TACO THEY WERE GONNA BUY THE TUNDRAS EVENTUALLY ITS JUST THAT A RECAL OF ALL OF THEM AT ONCE WOULD OF BROKE THE BANK BUT A RECALL OF A PORTION AND STICKING OUT THERE CHEST N SAYING LOOK WE WILL PAY 150 PERCENT VALUE PEOPLE CAUSE WE WANT TO SHOW HOW GREAT WE ARE WOULD HELP COMFORT THE MASSES AND NOT CREATE A TIDAL WAVE OF STOCK SELL OF AND CONSUMER LOSSES. SO CHEW ON THAT FOR A LIL WHILE ED EDD N EDDY!!
Ryan, what was the quality that was promised? Rust problems are not new for Toyota so I don’t know how you won’t expect it. Remember their 80’s and 90’s Toyota pickups? The bed would rust off before any other part of the truck. Is it still within the warranty period? Why not go after mother nature, how about the DOT? They contributed to this! Deal with it or move! Its life and nothing last forever!
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Fed Up- who’s to say it won’t happen to 2010? Is it fixed? Jason was saying buy one out of the salt belt. They where not exposed to the environment as the vehicles listed in the recall, BUT they will rust when you take them into the vehicle recalled area!
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Billy- there is a button for the caps! That cut deep, that really hurts! No, not really! I hope you feel better now! Now look outside, that rust bucket is still there! LMAO!!!
Eddy, if the trucks are good outside of the salt belt then why are they recalling them? There’s always at least one person on every forum who takes pleasure in other peoples pain. You have no idea how this problem impacts us owners nor do you care. If your intention is to stir the pot it is working and the result you are getting is a bunch of previously loyal Toyota owners ticked off at Toyota. Are you an approved voice for Toyota? If so, they are not getting their moneys worth.
Eddy: Toyota recognizes the problem, they admit the problem. 10 years on a vehicle. Yes, I remember the rust buckets of the 80’s and even the 90’s. Heck I just saw 3 tacos at the lot up here last night, with stickers in the windows. Regardless, Toyota admits they messed up the frames, by saying they will coat them with what should have been in the first place. So I dont know where you get off, just trying to argue for the sake of arguing. Your arguement is getting nowhere with us. As I’ve stated, I want it fixed. I take care of the maintenence on this truck, from oil changes to u-joints, to even new alignment cams (couldnt align due to seizing), to even having the body fixed and repainted (due to rust), I trusted toyota. Also, they claimed quality and all that and bragged that the rust issues were resolved. It was a big deal on tv and so forth. Also, what happened with those un-road worthy trucks? Maybe you like investing in failing shit, but i dont. A little known fact, Washing a vehicle will prevent rust problems…I did that too. I’ve lived here my entire life and never had a problem this bad with any vehicle. Others last…the tundra is not even close to stacking up…they call it a tundra and it wont live up to the climate to which its named after. You fail sir.
Been reading the all notes above and still am not sure what to do; my son-in-law – NH resident just had his 2000 Tundra looked at and diagnosed; was told “not safe to drive” but no offer for rental and no help could be given because the rot is beyond the scope of the recall which is limited to some bar; after reading the above comments sounds like a crock of crap; if the rust is not on the bar it doesn’t count?? Are you kidding; he has dished out hundreds on the exhaust manifold; o2 sensors, gas tank reinforcement etc etc NOT ONCE even knowing there were recalls. Not for nothing but now what — car not safe to drive?? no rental?? no repair?? Is he just supposed to die driving it?? With today’s economy there is no extra cash for buying a truck in addition to credit slipping die to financial stress? Come on – can anyone offer any helpful suggestions – there is a case # that was given but what does he do? Help
Dawn,
here is the contact for Toyota Motors Office in MA they handle all issues in NE
440 Forbes Boulevard
Mansfield, MA 02048-1836
(508) 261-0700
I contacted my customer service rep to discuss my case again. I wanted to make sure that they kept my case open since I turned down their 6K offer. She informed me that my case was closed but when Toyota decides what they are going to do as a recall I will be included. It sounds like they are still deciding on an outcome. I also asked her if Toyota would repair or replace my frame instead and was told that they did replace and repair a limited number of frames earlier on but were not doing that any longer. I’m not sure if they have offered anyone else a buy back offer or not but if they have and I and others have declined it then maybe they are re-evaluating their strategy.
Fed Up – That’s good info about the fact that Toyota is limiting repairs now. I too hope that Toyota comes up with another program, but I don’t understand why you would turn down the money now for the possibility of money later. I hope that decision works out for you.
Jason, unfortunately I put several thousand dollars into my Tundra just before the frame rust issue came to light. I realize that while this isn’t a concern of Toyota an offer of 6K would really be 3K to me. If toyota thinks my truck is only worth 6K then replace it with an equally equiped Tundra (whatever year) without the frame rust issue. That would be the same to them right?
Fed Up – Yes – buying you the same model year truck without rust (or giving you enough money to do that on your own) would be something close to fair…but it’s hard to say for sure. I respect your desire to get more than market value, but it seems like a risky strategy. As we’ve discussed, $6k would have bought a replacement truck without rust in a different part of the country.
Jason, It seems that those are suspect also hence the expansion of the recall. I remember reading early on a gentleman who’s Tundra rusted out and it spent it’s entire life in Texas. These type of reports may be why Toyota expanded the recall.
Fed Up – Fair enough. FYI, I know of more than a handful of Colorado Tundras with no rust issues, so climate is definitely a factor. However, if we put those Colorado trucks in MA for a winter, it’s likely we’d see rust…so I understand your point. As I’ve said before, good luck. I hope you get Toyota to work with you. As always, keep us posted.
Eddy,
I understand where you are coming from. I am not “telling” Toyota what to do, they are deciding for themselves. I never came up with a number off the top of my head, they did in order to keep customers happy. While I agree that parts that I have worn out, I should be responsible for, I cannot tell them what to replace. In fact, my front shocks and springs were put on two weeks before the first recall for the spare tire falling off. I also did rotors, calipers, pads and two rear brake lines. I told Toyota that they were new and I was told that they come on the new frame and would cost more to remove them than it was worth.
My rear springs and shocks were replaced last year. I know what it means to repair what is my responsibility. I have also changed all of the O2 sensors and my exhaust system. I never felt that it was up to anyone else, but if someone else wants to pay for a while in order to help me out and make sure that I stay loyal, well then, MORE POWER TO THEM. Never look a gift horse in the mouth, its not always wonderful. Even if they replace everything that they said, I still have to replace the steering rack as soon as it is done.
I have not demanded or even asked Toyota to do anything, let alone extra, for me.
Fed Up,
I was called by the customer relations rep last week and she told me that they have a deal with a new manufacturer that has already begun stock-piling frames. They just want to figure out the logistics of it all. Now with that said, she also told me that a decision has not yet been made and that most will be a case by case decision. I hope that helps a little.
John,
That really sounds promising. I do like my truck and have taken great care of it for all these years as I do any investment. The body is in great shape, no rust, and the motor runs like a sewing machine. Also, I just had the transmission rebuilt. If Toyota decided to replace the frame I would be very happy.
Me too. I wish us both (and everyone else) luck.
[…] Originally Posted by lotsip I have an 06 Tundra, 4×4 off road, v-8. Bought it new, got 58k miles on it now, has never had one single issue, not so much as a light bulb out, best vehicle I have ever owned, and that includes several dodge pickups (horrible transmissions). I spend about 5 weeks a year in the millinocket/baxter area, do a lot of fishin in remote areas where the roads aren't great……the tundra has great clearance, plenty of power, and has never gotten stuck. usually have a 12' aluminum boat in the bed, with gear, etc………also, it's a great ride on the highway……I highly recommend the Tundra. What's your experience with the Tundra and rust and rotting from the stuff Maine puts on winter roads? Have you heard about this recall? Toyota announced a recall on its Tundra pickup trucks because of frame rot in areas where roads are salted: Toyota Frame Rust Recall Only A Partial Fix | Tundra Headquarters […]
I just started the process. I have a MA 2000 Tundra with extensive frame rot. The steering rack mounting boss has rotted off the frame rail, so it is not safe to drive according to my mechanic. I called the local dealer, he said call California. They said a case manager would get back to me in 2 or 3 days. We’ll see. It has been reliable except for the a complete tranny failure under warranty, a leaky exhaust manifold from the factory, and replacing all the O2 sensors. I hope I can get a frame as I’d like to keep using it. I’ll let you know what happens. I’d like to hear from any other MA people in the same situation
still in rental ~ since X-mas !!!???!!!??? I’ve have called and they have called me over the course of time. No real action taken, usually they end up saying be patient!!!?!??? Its crazy.
Hi Guy’s and Gal’s
I live in Nova Scotia Canada and have a 2000 Tundra TRD 4×4, does this frame recall come up this far?
ok been in a loaner taco since dec 7 still nada gettin tired of WAITING!!! on the flip side the 2010 taco that HAD 8 miles on it now has 16,734 lmao ohhhh wellll
Latest on my 2000 tundra, since Feb.8th claim.
My contact told me last week the my claim will be dalyed for another month!
Call back on the 12th of May? They had a “meeting” and the delay was the rule of today! My inspection runs out end of May!!! She said we would make it right with me if needed???? Meaning “maybe”???? They do have a offer at this time.
If you trade in your “rust bucket” (my words) toward a NEW Toyota or a Certified one, they will give you $2000 cash as “customer loyalty”. If you look into a certified unit (used) guess what it is around $1500 bill to do this!!!
But you can screw the dealer and not mention the frame rot? My guess they all know about it???? My dealer, that did my inspection claim offered $5000. But of course won’t deal on a used unit! Book prices and that is it, Toyota’s are tuff to find and hold there value! Great deal from Toyota!! Cannot afford to buy another unit with higher payments and thanks to the Junkers deal all the used stuff is crazy prices! All hope and pray for some type of direction. allot of people are making money while other are looking at a truck sitting and rusting. I did the NHTSA form and nothing going on?? No replies or direction?
Anybody get info from filing? Sorry for long message!
Dave – So you get $2k, plus trade-in value, to buy a new Toyota? I guess the value of this offer is based on that trade-in value. Just because the frame is ruined doesn’t mean the rest of the truck doesn’t have value…what is the dealer offering? If they give you low book – $4500 – that puts you $6500 towards a new Tundra. With 0%, you might get out the door at a pretty decent payment, right?
Dave,
“Decent payments”. I bet that’s just what you were looking for is payments on a new truck. Thats like saying “decent taxes”.
Fed Up – Touche. No one wants payments, do they? Still, $6500 seems like a fair offer for a rusted out old truck (if that’s what the offer really is, I don’t know). If only Toyota made them so they didn’t rust in the first place.
I don’t understand this frame rust recall. I had an ’87 pickup and that truck was a rust bucket when I traded it in with 325,000 miles on it. I was a kid and never did a lick of maintenance. My ’03 Tundra has no frame rust whatsoever. I lived up in Chicago for a long time and if you don’t wash the salt off your undercarriage it doesn’t matter what they spray on the frame its going to rust. I have a better idea Toyota should just give away free car washes!
Just found out there is multipule cracks in the frame of my 2000 Tundra and it failed the Pa. state inspection. I took it to the dealership up in Scranton, Pa. and they held up to the Toyota image and treated me very well. They told me that the rep. will be in and make a decision concerning my truck, 28 others ahead of me, and then gave me a 2010 Tundra to drive till then that is free of charge. I was given a tour of the facility and witness the process of reframing a Tacoma and hopefully I will see it done to my Tundra, ‘someday’. I have thousands of dollars invested in my truck, just because I wanted to, and if not for some minor self-inflicted dents the truck is in almost mint condition.
The truck has 210,000 miles on it and the resounding question is, ‘Should Toyota own up to this fleet wide failure?’ Well, I believe it should and not just because I own one. It’s unheard of that a truck FRAME can fail in less that 10 years! I know that engines, trannies and the like go with time but a frame is the structure that knows no wear, it just is. It’s the foundation for all the Tundra represents and failure of Totota to be involved in some kind of support in fixing the issue will ‘permanetly’ damage the Toyota image and the word-of-mouth sales pitch. I’ve had’em all and it is the best truck I ever had! I purchased it not just because of the style, reliability, and almost indestructability, but because of the Toyota reputation and if they fail to continue this tradition they lose more than the loyal Tundra owners. Their reputation takes a hugh hit, their reliability is severly damaged and their truck will be known for its lack of endurance against the competitors, ‘my Ford,Chevy and Nission friends are having a field-day with this’.
So far, Toyota has been there step by step and my confidence has not yet been moved. I do believe they will be involved in some form of resolution and I’ll keep ya posted.
210,000 miles and ten years old. You live in the salt belt, right. How Long do you expect it to last? Seriously, do you expect forever? If it was within the corrosion warrety I agree 100%. But I think most are abusing the system.
No Anonymous, I live in PA. and I bought the Toyota with the expectation that this truck would last as long as an ‘average’ truck. I know that the history of Toyota and the saying used to go that the body falls off before the engines would quit. Ya, we’d run’em right into the ground, but this 1st generation after the T-100’s is more likely to put the passengers on the ground before the rest of the truck looks into retirement.
Sure, the body would rust – I replaced those parts, sure the manifolds would crack – I replaced those and the fuel tank straps would bust in route to work – factory parts don’t ya know and leaf springs would crack – because of movement in the frame? The list of parts pumped into this wonderful truck, and I mean that, goes on because I’m a fan of the Toyota but seriously name a Ford, Chevy, Dodge or Nissan truck that had frame problems like the Toyota Tacomas and Tundras.
Yes, there are folks who have abused Toyota during the Tacoma recall and yes the US govt has painted Toyota in a bad light over the Prius gas pedal. That was to help the US manufactures out of the mess they got themselves into because their trucks were beginning to lose in quality against the Toyotas but the frame rotten out? They should make it right because this loyal fan isn’t in it to abuse the company or the dealer. They do right and they will have a loyal base in the US that will help with sales and the Toyota image that takes a lifetime to build but destoyed overnight.
Dave – I absolutely understand where you’re coming from, but I’ve got to be honest – 210k means you’ve done quite well. Most trucks I know of need either an engine or a transmission during that time, and most people scrap them when that happens. I think a frame should last more than 10 years before rusting apart, but I also think you’re much better off than most. There are a lot of guys that only put 60k miles on before failure – you’ve definitely gotten your money’s worth.
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The larger point to no one in particular: When is the cutoff? Is it time or is it use? If it’s time (and I think that’s the answer), is it 10 years, 12 years, 20 years…how long should a frame last, on average? Considering the engines/transmissions last 150k (on average), that puts us at 10-15 years assuming 10-15k miles per year. If we pad that time a little, is it fair to say a frame should last 15-20 years and/or 200k?
Anonymous: I’ve seen many trucks (domestic & import) from the salt belt run over 200K miles without this much frame corrosion. Sure they’ll have some body panels or bumpers showing corrosion, but the frames aren’t nearly as bad as what has been displayed on Tacoma’s and Tundra’s.
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Dave from PA: Yes, average trucks that have been decently maintained should not display the excessive corrosion on the frame (body panels/bumpers yes) that the Tundra’s and Tacoma’s have displayed. I’ve seen non-restored 60s, 70s and 80s model trucks that have less corrosion than many of the Tundra’s that have been shown through the internet.
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And people, the government isn’t out to portray Toyota in a bad light to increase domestic vehicle sales. Can we please get off that supposed conspiracy theory? The government is forcing Toyota’s hand for their lack (as well as the NHTSA’s lack) of thorough investigation into potential safety recalls. Whether it’s the frames, gas pedal, brakes, floormats, etc, these are recalls that Toyota shouldn’t have tried to sweep under the carpet and brag about avoiding a recall to save the company $$$. As more and more documents are released, we are finding out more and more about this type of culture Toyota has displayed behind closed doors. I can’t blame these problems on Toyota USA, but it has more to do with Toyota headquarters in Japan. Toyota needs to be held to the same standards as all other manufacturers that sale in the USA, no matter if their headquarters is located in Detroit or Japan.
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Domestic trucks losing in quality to import trucks? In some aspect I could agree, but not 100% of the time with all domestic/import trucks. If the imports were that much more superior to the domestics in quality trucks, and have been for some time, why are the imports lagging so far behind in sales of full-size trucks? Why don’t we see more fleets purchasing Toyota’s like construction sites? And don’t say the cheapest bidder cause let’s do the math. If domestic trucks were cheaper and of lower quality, sure the purchaser would save up front ($1K-$2K), but would end up paying more on the back end for days the truck was out of service due to repairs as well as the cost of replacement parts and mechanic labor rates. The Tundra made a strong run in 2007, but sales have fallen off drastically since the initial “gotta have it” sales.
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Jason: 210K miles means doing quite well? Then I know plenty of family members and a couple friends, with domestic trucks over that mark that have never had a tranny/motor replaced or rebuilt. Mostly smaller items like alternators, clutch and such parts are the items they’ve replaced. There are people with domestic trucks that have failures at 60K, but keep in mind so do import trucks. Things we have to keep in mind are how did the owner use the truck? Did this have any impact of the part failure or lead to premature part failure? We simply hear of more domestic failures for two major reasons. 1) the sheer volume of domestic trucks on the road compared to import trucks, make it look like domestics fail more often. But when broken down by the % of vehicles with problems based on the # of trucks sold, there is no hard evidence that supports the claim that import trucks are more reliable than domestics. 2) Domestic trucks are more commonly used on construction sites and as work vehicles, increasing the strain on parts that can lead to premature failure. Sure you’ll have a person that baby’s their truck and it fails prematurely, but I’ve seen that as often with domestics as I have import trucks.
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And regarding your point on cutoff. I think it should be more based on years than mileage. Years will put more wear and tear on the frame rusting than the # of miles driven. Heck, I put 75K miles on a ’93 Nissan Sentra SE-R in just under 2yrs. Which in 2 years, the frame should still be in very good shape, even though the miles are high.
Justin – I hear you on the years vs. miles. As for the average truck mileage without a problem, Ward’s says it’s about 150k for gas engines, about 300k for diesel. That’s an average across all vehicles, regardless of make or model. When it comes to trucks, transmissions are usually the first thing to go. The thing is, if you take your 12 year old BRAND X pickup truck and look at the cost of replacing the transmission with a rebuild/refurbish, it’s darn near the value of the vehicle in most cases. Unless a person can do the work themselves, most of those trucks end up at the scrap heap or sent to Central America where repair labor costs are much, much lower. I don’t think 150k miles is a domestic/import thing – I think it’s just a fact of the modern ICU. As for exceptions, you’ll be interested to know I cruised around in my buddy’s 04′ F150 with 300k+ miles. I tried to convince him to buy a Tundra (not too hard, mind you), but he’s going Ford all the way. With 300k miles, I can’t say that I blame him. If I were him, I’d probably have to go that route too.
Justin: I’ve been thinking about your disbelief in the conspiricy theory and I hope your right. It’s just that there are some interesting facts concerning the recent events of late 2009 early 2010 involving Toyota, I’m a devout Toyota man, that makes me think that the possibility for govt. pressure on a non-govt. ownd company has increased. Did you know that a fairly recent poll conducted by Rasmussen states that only 12% of Americans that are in the market to buy a car would buy from a company that took TARP money. 63% say they wouldn’t buy a car from a bankrupt manufacturer and 58% would buy from a company who didn’t take federal money. As you well know, the govt is up to its neck in govt. OWNERSHIP of the auto industry, with the exception of Ford and the Asian competitors. Just look what the govt. did to the leadership of GM and may Saturn and Pontiac rest in peace . Remember the cash for clunkers program? It has been reported that 8 of the top 10 vehicles bought new in the program were Asian with Toyota placing #1, #4 and #6 on the list. The Ford Focus and Escape were the ONLY American vehiles to make the list in the top 10. Of the trade-ins, those junked by the junkies, ALL top 10 cars junked were American; Fords on top, Chysler in the middle and Chevy on the end. So if you owned 2 of the Big Three and needed to make your cars outsell the imports and saw Toyota taking almost 1/3 of the 2009/2010 sales why not use your power over the NHTSA, the obvious recall and the media to blow out of proportion the Toyota problems so they lose their image of relyability therby forcing the car buyers to turn to your manufacturers? Remember the paint issues on the Chevy’s where the paint was pealing off the roofs and hoods. Chevy never, to my knowledge, owned up to the fact they screwed up yet Toyota redeemed the Tacomas at their expense. Why, image and doing what is right at cost to them.
As for my 2000 Tundra, I hear tell that the steel used for the frame came from the Ohio based Dana Holding Corp. which happens too be an American company. This info comes from a statement by Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons, who is also the main point of contact at Toyota for the unintended acceleration issue. Here are the statements made by Lyons to the Automotive News:
“It is too early to speculate what we will do for Tundra…They’re [NHTSA] only looking at one specific portion of the frame — the cross member that supports the spare tire — not the entire frame. [Lyons confirmed that Dana built the Tundra frames but that no connection exists between the Tacoma and Tundra frame rust issues] The frames were built to a different design and at different plants…so this is not apples to apples. [Toyota does not blame Dana]. Ultimately, this is our vehicle and our responsibility.”
That was stated in Nov.09 and still here we are. I believe in the Toyota reputation and I hope they will make an obvious mistake, poor metals for truck frames, right.
Jason: I hear you on all points!
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And regarding your buddies ’04 F150 @ 300K miles, the biggest issue he has to worry about, if he has the 5.4L, are the stupid 2-piece spark plugs that get stuck. Which @ 300K miles, I’d hope he’s replaced them already. Of course as you’re most likely aware, this is just the opposite of the ’97-’03 5.4L, which were prone to launch plugs. No one I know personally has ever had a plug launch itself or get stuck, but I’ve seen plenty of these accounts via the web. Either way with trucks today, every make/model will have its unique issue and whether you’re a domestic or import fan, you really can’t go wrong either way. It’s all that different strokes for different folks.
Dave in PA – Good comment. My philosophy: Government conspiracy? No. Toyota screwed up. Government engaging in political showmanship designed to score points with the unions of the USA? Absolutely. It’s too bad that NHTSA is used to make a political point, but I suppose it’s to be expected. That’s the “Chicago way,” LOL! (just kidding folks!)
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Justin – I had forgotten about that – it’s a good point to remember next time some knuckle head tells me Fords are “way better” than Toyotas. Just as you say, they’re all pretty good. Having said that, I think Toyota screwed up pretty badly here: https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2010/04/26/tundra-sequoia-air-injection-induction-pump/ The folks I’m talking to are saying this problem is going to be big. Hoping Toyota steps up and offers a special service campaign, but not holding my breath.
Dave: Regarding the conspiracy theory. I have no vested interest in GM or Toyota, just providing my opinion. Truthfully, I can see where Toyota or owners can think this is the govt trying to tear down Toyota and prop up GM. But if it were true that the govt is trying to portray Toyota in a bad light to benefit GM, why isn’t the govt doing the same to the likes of Ford, BMW, Nissan, Honda, etc? None of them received TARP funds and none are receiving backlash like Toyota. Now in my mind, the govt, or the NHTSA specifically, is the dept with the most to gain/lose. The issue to me is how Toyota side stepped many NHTSA investigations, hired employees away from the NHTSA (who knew the interworkings of NHTSA), worked with the NHTSA to manipulate or reduce the scope of investigations, and how Toyota bragged about how they were able to persuade the NHTSA, saving $ by not announcing a recall. I think these documents portrayed the NHTSA in a bad light to the public, making it look like they weren’t thoroughly following up on complaints and were doing as Toyota or the manufacturer(s) requested. When the public got wind of this, the govt (NHTSA) decided to come down heavy handed on Toyota, possibly to make a point to the public that they are now focused on providing thorough investigations on all complaints. Now Toyota may be getting the blunt of the NHTSA actions, but think these actions have been missing from the NHTSA for quite some time. It’s just that the documents being released during pedalgate show a lack of follow through by the NHTSA (giving them a free pass) and inaction by Toyota headquarters. So I expect the govt (NHTSA) to be equally heavy handed with all other auto manufacturers from this point forward.
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Now personally, I’m not part of the 12% that’d buy a GM/Chrysler, but I am part of the 63% & 58%. Problem is nothing GM/Chrysler makes appeals to my needs/wants, well maybe the Silverado/Sierra. But I think there are better full-size trucks out today, automatically reducing the potential of me purchasing a GM product.
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Remember C4C very well. Think it was a bad idea and bad way to attempt to temporarily stimulate the auto industry, by increasing the national debt even further. But there are problems with the stats you provided. You are looking at the DOT figures, which are accurate in one sense, but extremely misleading and not very truthful. Examples using the DOT formula: If a vehicle, say the Camry, was made with a 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder, they were grouped in two different categories. If a vehicle was offered in 2WD and 4WD/AWD, say the Escape, they were again classified in two different categories. Another simple example is the F-150 & Silverado. These are offered in so many different ways, the DOT broke their sales into 5 separate categories under C4C. I much prefer a more common sense approach showing how many makes/models were sold under C4C, regardless of how the vehicle was equipped. In that scenario, when simply looking at makes/models sold, Ford had 4 of the Top 10 spots. Escape (#1), Focus (#2), F-150 (#5) and Fusion (#10). Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep had two, Patriot (#3) and Caliber (#4). GM had two as well, Silverado (#7) and Cobalt (#8). While using the same basis (make/model sales), Toyota only had one top ten vehicles sold under C4C (Corolla at #9). Below are some sources of this data, provided by Edmunds, & CNN.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/0...../index.htm
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.c.....-it-wrong/
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Now the top trade-in vehicles make plenty of sense and doesn’t knock the domestics one bit. Example: The Explorer was the best selling SUV of the 90s and part of the 00s. The F150 was the best selling truck of the 90’s and the 00’s. Heck, the F150 and Explorer were the best-selling vehicle, regardless of classification for some of these years. This basically means there are a ton of these vehicles on the road. Of course with the high mileage on these vehicles and age, most people would never get the $3500-$4500 trade-in value without C4C. Of course it can also be said a Camry/Corolla of the same age and mileage couldn’t fetch the $3500-$4500 trade-in value either. But remember the new vehicle has to get 2-3-4mpgs or so better compared to the trade-in vehicle. So trading in an F150/Explorer that gets say 15-18mpgs average, you have a wide array of vehicles to select, from compact cars to full-size trucks. Now if you attempted to trade-in a Camry/Corolla of the same year, the vehicles you have to choose from under C4C were much more limited due to the Camry/Corolla bringing home much better mpgs. When trading a Camry, you really could only trade for a compact to mid-size car. With a Corolla, you could only pick from compact cars. So if you look at the volume of vehicles on the road, and the mpgs of these vehicles compared to new cars, it’s understandable why older SUVs and Trucks were the hot trade-in vehicles and cars were not. Also keep in mind, Asian imports make up a tiny fraction of the truck and SUV market in the USA. And of course the cost of fuel in 2008 made a lot of people consider and actually move into something smaller.
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Can’t say this Toyota ordeal is overblown. You simply have to look back at Fords recall history to see an equal amount of coverage. From the Pinto, to the ignition switch, to the Cruise Control to the Firestone/Explorer recalls. All received as much political and media coverage as this here set of Toyota recalls. Ford was put through the ringer for all these and their reputation/image were negatively impacted, and rightfully so. Why is it so hard for people to accept that Toyota should receive a similar type of treatment as Ford or any other manufacturer has received in the past? Shouldn’t their reputation/image be equally impacted as manufacturers who’ve gone through the same process in the past? Or are we to give Toyota a pass for their reliable vehicles from the 70s, 80s and early 90s? Consumer Reports gave Toyota a pass in the past and got burned, requiring them to retract their recommendation. Now they state they test every vehicle, no auto recommendations. The issue at had is clearly Toyota knew of the problem but never took action until the NHTSA forced their hand. But people have a short memory and now think simply because GM was bailed out; it’s a conspiracy against Toyota. And of course, neither Toyota nor their vehicle owners were jumping to defend Ford during their major recalls when they were being put through the ringer. Most were saying “they get what they deserve” or “no surprise cause Ford makes crap vehicles”, etc. Now that the show is on the other foot, people want to cry foul.
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Peeling paint on a Chevy is not a safety concern. Tacoma frames rusting out, dropping the spare tire or potentially impacting steering is a major safety concern. Big difference there.
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So what if Dana created the frame. So what if CTS created the pedal. Who cares where it was manufactured. They were both built to the specifications that Toyota required/requested. Toyota should have been able to discover the issues via R&D before the items ever went into mass production. Or they should have at least taken action to correct the problem when it originally popped up instead of ignoring it. Sure Dana & CTS should share a small fraction of the blame for their faulty parts, but in the end, it’s up to Toyota to test their product and stand behind it when a consumer has an issue. Just like Ford had problems with the Texas Instruments cruise control switch. They identified the problem and never blamed TI directly for the problem as it was built to the specs required by Ford. So no matter who made or where they made the product, Toyota is responsible for its parts. Just as GM is for their, just as Ford is for theirs and so on.
Jason haven’t had that issue at all. I’m over 84,000 miles. I have to check the parts list when I hit the deer to see if they replaced any of this. I only had one check engine light which was my fault. Forgot to tighten gas cap and the code was exactly that. The dealer anyway replaced the cap just in case. I’m sure if I do get this issue The dealer will work with me on it. I truly believe by getting your maintenace done at the dealer this will weigh heavy if they want me to continue going there. I can always go to Jiffy Lube for a B/S job. They know this. I’m not just talking oil changes either. The other required maintenance I get done there too.
YOUR trucks are 10 years old ! the factory warranty on frames is 5 years 60,000 miles anything beyond that is your responsibility. the problem with this country is everyone wants sumthin for free. you people expect Toyota to pay you over 10 grand for a 10 year old worn out piece o shit with tons of miles on them that are worth prob $1,000 at the most
Scott, you are right about one thing…the value is about 1 grand because the frames are trash. Ok, so you feel its ok for all this. However, some of us, dont want to buy a new vehicle every so often…we like to keep ours around for a few years. The frame is trash…you go ahead and attack us for trying to protect our investments, if thats what helps you feel better. Meanwhile, im going to try to spend money the smart way. I see 40-50 year old vehicles…and even toyotas from the early 70’s that have been sitting in a field for 10 years in the elements of upper michigan and…guess what. no frame rot, they are still driveable. the bodies are trash, but the frames are straight and arent flaking apart. i was putting new u-joints in a couple weeks ago and while i was under there, just working. Not hammering or anything, i could hear, frame peice falling off. I picked one of the pieces up off the floor and guess what i saw. I saw the protective coating..along with 4 layers of frame attached to it. so y ou tell me man…i’ll be honest. I paid 16 grand for my truck, i’ve got thousands into it already that i consider to be maintenence..just to have the frame falling off. i’ve accepted responsibility for my truck…but when the frame is rotting off, what do i do? tell me? go buy another toyota? Probably not. Alot of people feel like me, you are fighting a losing battle my friend. If toyota doesnt come good, i wont own buy another one. i’ll go back to chevy, with the weak motor, and trash rear end…but atleast i can fix that or it can be fixed. Another thing is, some of us dont want the hand out…we want fair treatment. we bought toyota, and moved away from chevy or ford or dodge. we just want the problem righted. I dont expect 150% of the kbb excellent blue book like the tacos…i expect this problem righted. I did my part as far as im concerned. Did Toyota? No, they did not.
Scott – You would have a point if this was just normal wear and tear. However, Toyota has admitted they screwed up here. Once Toyota agrees their quality is deficient, the “your warranty is over” argument doesn’t hold water. I get what you’re saying – I really do – but I think it’s reasonable to be upset with Toyota for building a truck that couldn’t go 10 years without severe frame rust. Every other truck manufacturer can do it just fine.
Just rec’d call from my case manager @ Toyota, an official frame rust replacement program is now (finally) in place.
Great news! I just had mine towed to the local dealer who said, “there’s no program for this”. I’ll give him a break that maybe they haven’t informed all dealers yet. I also just got the recall notice by mail on the tire support bar recall. Kreg, can you provide any details on the replacement program?
KREG – That’s cool…let us know when you find out details. I’ll try and dig something up ASAP.
Just received email from local dealer that he has been notified by Toyota of the frame replacement program. Also, my Tundra qualifies (don’t have any details as to why other than the frame was perforated) and that he ordered the new frame. No word yet on how long to get the frame
Called dealer today, my truck is already on hoist – cab and bed removed, frame supposedly showing up today. They said I should have it back Thurs. or Friday. !?!?!!!!!
The comments on this post are now closed – see this post if you have any questions about the Tundra frame rust issue: https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2010/05/06/toyota-launches-00-03-tundra-frame-replacement-program/
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