2010 Tundra Check Engine Light Issue and Fix
Jason Lancaster | Nov 23, 2009 | Comments 81
UPDATE – TOYOTA HAS ISSUED A TSB FOR THIS ISSUE
Please view 2010 Tundra VVT-i TSB for the full details
The following post is no longer correct.
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If you found this post as a result of an internet search, your day might have been going a little something like this:
I have just bought a 2010 Tundra and only had it for 5 days before the check engine light came on. It didn
Filed Under: Maintenance Tips • Tundra News
Interesting and good article. My service engine soon light just came on also on my 2010 tundra. Unfortunately for me, it is at 4500 miles of which is time for an oil change anyways. Too bad it did not come on at 4K or so since I would have gotten a free oil change out of it. I wonder how many, 100’s or 1,000’s, of new 2010 tundras may have this light come on with contaminated metal shavings in the oil? Time to change my oil sooner rather than later. I always wondered about changing my first oil from the dealer WELL BEFORE the recommended first 5K oil change seeing as how metal shavings on my past new trucks when I perform the first oil change had metal shavings on the magnetic oil plug more so than on any other oil change. I have heard of people changing the new oil at 2-3K, and now I guess they were not foolish and smart to do so.
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mk – You’re absolutely right about the fact that 98% of the time, changing oil any sooner than recommended on a brand-new vehicle is a waste. New engines used to have oil contaminants all the time (well into the 80’s for some manufacturers), but over time this has become pretty rare. I don’t think it’s necessarily bad to have a little metal flake in the engine oil, but it wouldn’t make me very comfortable. I’m glad to know that the check engine light is setting as soon as contaminants are detected. It’s actually a really good feature…but it’s a pain the rear for someone that just bought a brand-new truck. Hopefully it’s limited to 100’s of people instead of 1000’s.
Jason, Very good article. Great to see you take the forefront and help others out. I’ve been reading the comments about this on a daily basis and kept up with it. I’m glad it’s not a major fix and just an oil change. If I’m not right like mine it came from the factory with synthetic oil to start with. So Mk it’s okay to go to 5,000 miles. I use synthetic oil every change. Synthetic oil is great for that reason. I always have the dealership do the maintenance/oil changes for several reasons. I know it costs more. It keeps the economy going and the dealership has everytime I come in on record/file. So if anything goes wrong they have the info in front and no worry about Jiffy Lube doing a botched job. Same dealer for all and they have the Tech’s name on each work order. Not to mention twice the dealer wrote off diagnostics and lock nuts for the wheels because of exactly what the service adviser stated. “We are valued customers and they wanted to keep our business”. I couldn’t get this cooperation from Ford or Chevy when I had their trucks.
NO thanks on dealer’s doing my oil changes. I know it has only happened about 3 times, but when it does, this ticks me off: Dealer once overtightened on my brand new truck the oil filter (yes, I know – a chevy at the time) for the first free oil change and come 2nd oil change, I could NOT get the oil filter off. I finally got an extension bar with more leverage onto the socket and luckily, the threads did not break off. But, the oil filter rubber gasket was cracked all over from overtightening. Twice with Tundras, the dealer oil change dept. cranked on too tight the oil filter housing cap and I could not get off very easily either – big pain in the butt. Besides, I like knowing the job is done right even if it takes me 3 times as long as a dealer can do it and saving 40 bucks or so in the process per oil change. Synthetics are nice, but at 8 bucks per quart times 7 quarts on the tundra – OUCH! – 56 bucks per oil change plus 5 dollar toyota filter – yikes every 5K mileage! vs. regular conventional oil at a little over dollar a quart (1.50 or so now) does just fine for me and total costing me about 15 bucks vs. 60 or so every 5K/4-5 months of driving. Pretty soon customers will not be able to change their own oil and mfgs. are going to require you take your vehicle in for basis service the way they mfg. some of these components that a regular guy cannot access to do a basic routine maintenance. Yikes – another story though entirely.
Thanks for keeping on this. I recently got a 2010 crewmax 4×4. Had it 3 months and no problems so far….
ASSUME? Is this what we pay 40k for? I can assume that the engine will not blowup or assume I got a good deal, maybe assume this is BS. I assume that all the above is correct. I assume this will be my last Toyota. I assume no one else finds assume a bit concerning. I assume that they would not have these kinds of issues, I assumed wrong!!!
Pat56 – I understand where you’re coming from – take it for what it is.
Pat56 you
No Mickey, you don’t see the point. Has nothing to do with the time for a correct answer, has everything to do with the time to end in a assumption. Quality is not assumed it is proven. So why should I assume everything is great, I want a its good or bad. NOT a maybe we will see. So if I stop making my payments can I say I assume I paid them and everything will be ok? You must assume also, I just want simple yes no answer to specific question like is my motor going to blow up, is the light going to come on again, is my pickup tube or filter clogged starving my engine of oil. But I assume you understand, assume I will not have the frame issue and assume my throttle will not stick. When are we going to stop ASSUMING??? I traded a Dodge for this! I assume in the next 274 miles my light will not come on.
Wait a minute what does first in line, everyone should get out of the way comments have anything to do with the issue at hand. Did I say anything about time or lines in the first post, I assume not Mickey.
Pat56 – I don’t understand your issue. The article mentions the word “assume” when describing the standard procedure for these codes. The reason that the procedure tells the tech to assume that nothing is wrong is that, most of the time, nothing is wrong when these codes are set. If you don’t like that answer, I don’t know what to tell you. I find it hard believe you’re this upset about just this issue – is there something that I’m missing?
Ditto Jason. More here than meets the eye. Pat56 you wrote the same article in two threads. You know you wrote about your 3 hour ordeal with a oil change. That’s one of the remedies for that code. You apparently like to assume. I don’t.
I apologize I assume my standards are to high. How about running a oil analysis to be certain??
I purchased a 2010 Toyota Tundra yesterday 11-27-09 and my check engine light came on today, approximately 27 hours after purchase. Needless to say I was sick to my stomach. I checked the gas cap, because this happened on my last Tundra, and it was caused by the gas cap not being closed tightly. After reading this article, my mind is at ease and I will be able to sleep tonight.
Pat56 – Not a bad idea.
I brought 2010 Tundra on November 17. The check engine light came on with 362 miles on December 1st. The dealship said it code p0022. The changed the oil and the filter.
Then the light came on again on December 4th with 462 milages. They cleaned the DTC. The light was off. I was driving it the same night the check engine light came back on. I will be going back to the dealship again.
Tom – That’s interesting. Perhaps the cleaning wasn’t done correctly…or perhaps there’s more going on than contaminants in the oil. Keep us posted.
The check engine light went off today on my way to work. So, I guess the oil change and clearing DTC work from the other day
My daughter told me about this blog and am I glad she did! I bought a new 2010 Tundra a week ago and the check engine light came on twice. It has 621 miles on it. Took it to the dealership and the fix they say is to change the oil and filter. The computer ck. code P0012 and 1604, possible contamination. They did not find any contaminent. It cked. out ok and so far so good. This is the first brand new truck I have bought and the ck. engine light comes on!?
Hopefully this will clear it up. I am in Texas and we have a 30 days lemon law. I hope I dont have to use it!
Tom – Keep us posted.
John – Most people that have had this problem only report one or two incidents, most of which are cured by an oil change and perhaps a sensor cleaning. However, as you can see from Tom’s story above, that’s not working for everyone…so it looks like this problem still isn’t fully understood. Hopefully Toyota will issue a TSB soon that will detail the problem.
Jason, My Tundra had a code readout of P0012 and code readout of 1604. Have others had other codes readouts of 1604? Do you know what that indicates? Curious.
Thanks John
John – P1604 is a VVTi controller error code. It could be a bad controller, or it could be a VVTi malfunction on account of the crank position sensor generating false readings. I’ll do what I can on my end, but all the people I’m talking to aren’t exactly sure how and why this is happening.
The Truck back to dealership with check engine light on. I have owned the truck a month tomorrow. The truck been in the shop three time with check engine light on. The week the truck was not in the shop. I drove the truck in S Drive to see if this would get better gas milages. I did not get better gas milage. So this week switch back to D drive. The check engine light came back on after a day.
Tom what codes are you getting with the check engine light? “S” drive won’t give you better mpg’s. To get best mpg’s you have to use street tires vice all terrain for off road. You can’t have a 4×4 extra weight and drag there. Can’t be lifted higher than stock. More height increases drag which lowers mpg’s. Flat terrain you’re driving on. Weather plays a good role. Winter takes longer to warm up thus runs richer and burns more fuel. I drive 28 miles to work and out of 28 I can do 55+ on 26 miles of it. I do 55 in a 70 mph zone to get max mpg’s. In doing so I can get 23mpg on my 07 Crwemax 5.7 here in Florida.
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Mickey,
A part getting shipped from CA to MA for my truck. The milages I drive all back roads. The first week I got 16.33, the second week 15.35 and last week in the S drive I got 14.32
Tom what part did they have to order and why?
Mickey, why do 55 in the 70? First its unsafe, second VERY annoying to other drivers! If I was that worried about gas, or the cost of, I would buy something more efficient and cheaper. Tire air pressure, maintenance of vehicle, alignment, altitude, accessories on vehicle (adds weight and drag), certain all-terrain tires will not affect MPG (Micheln ATX2 actually get better than all seasons), items not needed in vehicle adds excuse weight. There’s a million and one ways different things help or hurt depending on other factors. Each play hand in hand with others.
If you buy a truck and worry about the fuel economy you probably don’t need it. See beautiful trucks all the time sitting because to expense to drive, they had to have them but apparently could afford them. If you have to go out of your way to save gas either because it is to expensive or your just saving the environment, then maybe you should NOT have bought a truck.
Eric I hate to disagree with you but all terrain doesn’t keep up with a street tire in mpg’s. Why do 55? Simply see what the truck does for mpg’s. I don’t do it all the time. Wrong not unsafe at all unless I’m in the left lanes. In a 70mph posted speed limit you have a minimum speed limit of 50mph. Yes it maybe annoying to the drivers on the road who are in a rush. If posted speed is 70 and you’re doing above 70mph then you can say that it’s unsafe. When I do 55mph I’m always in the right lane of a 6 lane interstate. Eric you can do what you feel with your truck. No gas isn’t expensive to me. I use my Crewmax to travel as well as a daily driver. Every other weekend I take my boat out. At least once a month we use it to camping. I use a tent vice a camper so everything fits in the back. I had my truck since July 07 so I did all the mpg and what octane etc. The question was ask and I answered to what I did before and do every now and then. Personally I don’t like SUV’s and this truck has the most in cab room around so I went with it. I’ve got as much as 24.9mpg and as low as 15mpg.
[…] 2010 Tundra Check Engine Light Issue and Fix FYI. My check engine light came on at 250 miles. I immediately took it to the dealership and they told me that there are metal shavings in the oil from the manufacturing process causing an issue with the crank position sensor. They said that about every 2010 Tundra (both 4.6 and 5.7) they have recently sold at that dealership has come back for the same problem. I did some searching on the internet and site below. Appears to be a glitch in the manufacturing process. I just hope there is no long term damage. Here is a link on the issue. 2010 Tundra Check Engine Light Issue and Fix | Tundra Headquarters […]
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I just got my truck back from the December 16th.
The dealership end up replacing part because of the check engine light. I part was coming from CA to MA. Last week the dealership putting truck back togather broke a part.
This was third time back to the dealership. The error code was P0012 bank 1 and Bank 2 VVTI oil drums to correct. They had drive my truck for 200 milage to make sure everything work okay.
Tom I don’t know what it is that these newer engines getting that P0012 code. Jason did Toyota do something different to the engines?
Mickey – I’ll see what I can dig up next week. There are a few phone calls I need to make…waiting for some people to come back from vacation.
Just Bought the truck. Engine light came on at about 550 mile. Same story, dealership said it needed an oil change and now she is running fine, BUT I have 2 VERY BIG issues. 1) The truck was running weird once the engine light came on. It was hesitated when you step on the gas before the trans would ingage at low RPM’s, and when on the highway the engine was holding back the truck at about 60-65MPH. Basically it felt like the emergency break was on… Very strange for contaminated oil to cause that problem. Don’t you think? And if it did cause that problem, then it must have been some type of damage to the engine? 2) Ok, “they say”, everything is fine now that the oil has been changed, but who is to know if there was not some minute damage that is going to progress over time, and so the engine goes after 85K, and out of warrenty. Are we suppose to ASSUME that is not going to happen. Because you and I know they are not going to say, oh sorry about that, “Let me put a new engine in for you.” I expected to own this truck well into the 100K+ range now I’m not so sure I want to risk driving it that long…..
Jerry – It’s very likely that contaminated oil would cause your engine to run oddly, but that’s because of the computer control. You might want to re-read the section in the article that explains the technical aspects, but here’s my quick explanation: the contaminated oil effected the function of the cam position sensors. Since the engine computer wasn’t sure about where the cams were at any given point in time, the engine went into “lifeboat” mode and eliminated any potential for damage by deactivating VVT. Consequently, you felt your engine hesitate because the computer wouldn’t let you run hard. Make sense?
I also have this “check engine light” issue with my new 2010 Tundra. I took to the dealership (I have 372 miles on the truck) and after a few hours they called me and told me that Toyota “engineers” do not currently have a “fix” for this problem but are working on it. Basically, I’m to accept that all is just fine with my truck and feel comfortable driving around with the “check engine” light on. When they are aware of a fix they will call me???? I asked how long I should expect it to take and was told at least a few weeks. Based on this blog it sure looks like this has been a problem for some time longer than a few weeks.
I called them back after reading this article and associated posts and have been told “they don’t go by information on the internet, they only go with what Toyota engineers tell them to do”. When I suggested that they might want to at least try changing the oil to solve the problem they pretty much made it clear they were not interested in doing so unless and until they are instructed to do so by a Toyota engineer.
I have some of the same concerns Jerry has. Who’s to say this isn’t causing some minor damage that manifests itself a 100k down the road? I really don’t like hearing that I just paid $30K for a new truck and it has metal shavings in the oil.
I’m pretty frustrated with this whole issue…not to mention my dearlership’s response.
This is the first Toyota I’ve ever owned. Bought one because of all the hype about “quality”. Guess I should have stayed with my old Chevy. At least when something went wrong I could fix it.
Jason, Thanks for the feedback.
Scott, I feel your pain brother. My dealership told me the oil change was what the Factory told them to do even though the codes were telling them something else…. I would contact Toyota directly because it sounds like your dealership SUCKS, and I would file a formal complaint with the Better Business Bureau. You can do it online in about 10 minutes. Trust me, it works!
Scott – Your dealership either isn’t doing their job or didn’t manage to get a call placed. The way it works on the dealers end: vehicle comes in for a problem that doesn’t make sense/seem normal. (i.e. this problem) Tech reviews repair manual, then decides to call Toyota for support. Phone calls involve hold times of 20 minutes to more than an hour. Tech has vehicles that need work in all of his bays. Tech tells service advisor he’ll do it next week, and service advisor tells you to come back later. I understand that dealers won’t do what the internet tells them to do, but printing out the article and/or mentioning the codes might work. As far as engine damage, see my comment to Jerry above. Damage as a result of this issue is, in a word, impossible.
I am new to this forum, but feel that my experience is important to share for the benefit of all owners of the 2010 Toyota Tundra 4.6L V8 who are experiencing check engine lights on their brand new trucks.
I took ownership of my truck on January 31, 2009. On Monday, January 4, 2010, on my way to work, my check engine light came on for the first time at 180 miles on the odometer. After a phone call to the dealership, I went right in to have them check it out. Sure enough, I also had a p0022 code, and like others on the forum, they reset the code, replaced the oil and the filter.
I hoped all would be well. But on Wednesday, January 6, 2010, on my way home from work, my check engine light came on again. My odometer reading was about 280 miles. I called the dealership and told them I would be in after work today, Thursday, January 7.
The same code came up…p0022. This time the Toyota Service Bulletin (tsb) instructed the dealership to do nothing except reset the light. According to Toyota engineers, a repair will be necessary. (And I think that you will all get this notification if your lights come on again) However, what that repair will entail is not clear at this time. So, in similar regards to the above post, I do not believe that the evasiveness in a response is an indication that they are “blowing you off”. Instead, I believe that there is enough data to support a real problem being experienced by many owners. Now the engineers are working on a solution and then will give these instructions to the dealership once they really know what they want to do for us.
It is all very unfortunate. I hate having to wait a week for a solution. Furthermore, not knowing how invasive the repair will be does not sit well. I also don’t like the idea how this early mileage issue will affect the truck at a later time.
I do want to compliment the dealership’s service department for their understanding of my frustration and concerns. In addition, I called the Toyota Customer Service Center and opened up a case file. I am told that I should expect a call from them within 24 hours to go over more details, which the individual on the phone was not capable of answering. In addition, I do believe that I will be compensated in some way for the time I have spent in the dealership, etc. I encourage everyone on this forum to assert themselves in every way to have Toyota provide us with the satisfaction we deserve for making an expensive purchase, which supposedly represents quality and reliability…something which has not been experienced up to this point.
In addition, the dealership did not want to call the reset on the code for the second visit an actual service. I believe, as the service technician also hinted to, that Toyota is concerned about owners following through with Lemon Law rights. I believe that the one week wait on notification of needed repairs is Toyota’s way of making sure that once instructions are given, they get it right the first time, or else they will be faced with some people reaching that third visit to the dealership with the same problem. The fourth visit=lemon!
Let’s maintain solidarity on this…If I had my way, I’d ask Toyota to take the hit on their product and give me a new Tundra off the assembly line (with the issue resolved)!
Sam – Didn’t realize that your dealership had already changed your oil once before. Your experience isn’t unique, btw – other people have commented about this scenario (light came on twice, three times in a couple of instances). The solution that other dealers tried was to pull and clean each cam position sensor, and failing that each sensor was replaced. Still, it’s odd that your dealership didn’t try this. I think you’re on to something with the lemon law idea…Toyota must be careful to fix it in as few attempts as possible. Keep us posted.
I received a phone call from a Toyota Customer Service case manager today at 3:46 p.m., January 8, 2009. I was optimistic for this call. I thought that I would receive additional information regarding Toyota’s next response to my problem. However, I was told that I was entitled to a fix under the warranty’s legal wording. Of course, we all know that a customer is entitled to a fix for a manufacturer’s defect for 3 years or 36000 miles, whichever comes first.
Toyota still does not have a solution at this time. I must wait to be contacted by the dealership to know what the fix entails.
Meanwhile, my check engine came on again this morning on the way to work. Now it has come on three times in less than 375 miles.
The individual on the phone told me that I can pursue arbitration through a third party. This is free of legal fees, and there is a form in the glove compartment with the vehicle manual to fill out.
I don’t know what would come of this, but I would encourage all owners with the problem to pursue this. With more complaints, maybe there would be greater leverage to ensure TOTAL customer satisfaction.
If I could have my way, I’d like Toyota to give me a brand new truck without the problem. Another option to request: Perhaps Toyota should extend all of our warranties for 10 years/100000 free of parts and labor. They have to be ready to do something. There is no way that I can accept this on a brand new truck, purchased with my hard-earned money.
Cheers!
Sam,
Keep us up to date on how that works out. Not sure how the lemon law reads in your state but in MD it says if you bring the car in 3 times for the same problem and they still can’t fix it, then you can file a claim. Not that it will be granted, but gives you a little more leverage.
I have the bigger engine and had the same problem but haven’t had an issue since the oil change. Like the idea about the extended warrenty and it would be cost effective way to go for Toyota.
Sam – I agree that people should know what their rights are, but I disagree with the idea that this is a major problem. It’s annoying, it’s inconvenient, and if it can’t be fixed soon (and there’s every reason to think that it will be) it’s cause for concern. However, as you can see from most of the comments posted, this is an easy fix most of the time. I think it’s important to keep some perspective…a check engine light brought on by some quirky cam position sensor readings shouldn’t be cause for a full truck replacement! That line of thinking will only lead to disappointment, as I can assure you the dealership and Toyota won’t take your satisfaction seriously if you sound like a person who’s demanding the world. Take it from me – a guy who worked at dealerships for years – people who demand a new vehicle as a result of a check engine light just don’t get very good treatment. It’s not supposed to be that way of course, but that’s how it is. If you tone it down, you’re much more likely to get something of value in exchange for your trouble.
My light went off today on its own after a little more than 400 miles. I’m feeling a bit relieved. However, I’m still waiting for the dealership to notify me of the intended repair. Jason, my tone with the dealership is positive. I don’t intend to “burn any bridges”. My comment about wanting a new truck was just me venting on this forum. I’m not crazy enough to believe it’s a reasonable request. Based on your experience from working at a dealership, what do you recommend I ask for in return for my troubles?
Hello All, I wanted to share my experiences, and also ask a few questions.
First, I too am experiencing the Check Engine Light with codes P0012 / P0022. I bought my truck on 29DEC09 in SE Georgia, and have been in to the service dept. with the check engine 3 times now. On the 3rd visit, the service dept. rubbed me the wrong way by attempting to ammend my visit on the still open 2nd case. Aka, make it look as if I only had 2 cases instead of 3. To say the least, I called them out on it and walked out with them aknowledging 3 seperate cases with 3 seperate invoices. To me, this is nessicary to protect myself as a consumer. I am contiplating Lemon Law, but wish to give Toyota every chance possible to make this right. In my eyes, I have a really nice vehicle. Not I state vehicle and not truck. This is because I cannot use my vehicle as a truck in it capacity. I brought to the attention of the GM and Service Dept Manager that I was not going to hook a trailer up to my truck with the check engine light on. The Service Dept Manager reminded me that I have a 60,000 powertrain warentee, and if it were him, he would haul with the light on. I in turn told him that unfortunatly I am unwilling to do so. I know the dealership is trying to protect themselves from a possible Lemon Law proceeding. I love my truck and really hope it does not come to that, but again, as a consumer I have to be prepared. In reading this forum, I do favor Toyota extending the powertrain out to 100,000 miles to calm their customers. I feel this problem with the check engine light is somewhat related to Toyota switching from 4.7L to the 4.6L engines. (aka. grimlins). Now, with that off my chest, I will move to my secont part with my questions.
Questions:
1) Is it possible for the Toyota Service Tech to disable the ECU or the sensor itself from reporting the P00?? error codes to prevent the check engine light from coming on?
2) What is the possibility of the P0012 / P0022 error codes causing actual damage to the engine?
3) If Toyota decides to replace an engine, will it be reported on Car Fax thus reducing the resale value?
4) If Toyota decides to rebuild the engine, will it be reported on Car Fax and thus again reduce the resale value?
As a follow up, I got the sales manager I bought the truck from involved. He in turn got the general manager involved and I’m now getting calls daily from the service department.
That said, they just called to tell me they had finally heard back from their “Toyota Rep” and the “Toyota Engineers” with a definitive fix for this code. (incidentally, my code was P0012 and I have the 5.7L). I’m told they have to replace the “Cam Gear” and that this is deep in the engine and will require a complete tear down and rebuild of the engine. They’ll need to have the truck for 1.5 weeks for this repair.
Ok. My knowledge of automotive mechanics is pretty limited. But, this sounds pretty serious. I want to be reasonable. I’m not prone to going half cocked. But, I find myself feeling pretty frustrated with the prospect of having paid $30K for a brand new truck with a “rebuilt” engine.
I don’t know if it’s reasonable to expect a new replacement truck but this whole experience makes me feel sick. Is what I’m feeling unreasonable?? It seems like I should be able to expect a finely tuned and operational vehicle right off the line…not one that requires significant engine work before I’ve even hit 500 miles.
Thanks for your support.
Scott
Sam – My apologies. I didn’t want to see you end up in the proverbial “lose-lose” situation. If you have a good relationship with the dealer, I would ask for a free oil change and tire rotation on account of your troubles. I would also ask it Toyota would grant you a free extension on your powertrain warranty (not likely, but worth asking for). It depends on the dealership, but most places would offer a free oil change + rotation in this situation. If that doesn’t float your boat, a free detail is likely workable as well.
Sam – One more note. I would only suggest asking for this because you appeared at the dealership mutliple times for the same issue. For someone reading this who has only been in been in once, there’s little chance of getting some sort of concession for your troubles.
CSM – In order: No, none, no, and no. Keep in mind that the check engine light is setting because the computer has stepped in and decided to protect the motor. Your truck has variable valve timing, but in order to function correctly VVT needs to know *exactly* where the cam is at any point in time. If the cam position sensor isn’t reading correctly, the VVT system will not engage in order to prevent valve damage. As for requesting an increase in powertrain warranty, I think you have a case. 3 visits for the same problem – especially when the owner’s manual states clearly that you should take your truck in for service as soon as the light comes in – is grounds for a lemon law claim in some states.
Scott – In terms of difficulty, pulling the cam gear isn’t a huge deal, but it’s not a small thing either. It’s odd that they’ll need the truck for 1.5 weeks – the operation should take half a day to complete (maybe less), so they either need to wait for a part or Toyota is sending someone to check it out. I would suggest that you request an extension on your powertrain warranty.
My check engine light has come back on. I feel like my acceleration and suppposed gas mileage is down. Would this be expected with an over-retarded camshaft?
I also think that a rebuild of the engine is unacceptable. I don’t want a new truck with these issues. Toyota is trying to be slick about not counting individual visits on the reset of the light as individual incidents. I stilldont know what the repair will be. Meanwhile they tell me that continued driving while I wait is safe. This issue consumes my thoughts and thoroughly removes the joy of ownership!
I would rename this blog…I have not heard much about a “fix”.
I hope to holy hell we will all laugh this off ten years from now when we can hardly remember this and our trucks are servicing our needs flawlessly!
Sam, just think this is what you could have in store for how ever long you keep this vehicle. A free oil change, tire rotation, and detailing to compensate you for your 30k investment breaking down! I would just ask for a vehicle that works! But hey just think at least you have good resale value and the mileage will be REALLY low! Just amybe you too can experience the frame rust also! Is this what you expected out of “the truck that is changing everything”! LOL
You’re right “Anonymous”…free oil change, tire rotation, and detailing to compensate me for a 30K purchase!
I should cut my losses now!
Get a good trade in value now!
Let’s see how much Toyota values their own product…let’s see how much they’ll give me for a trade with only 500 miles!
The dealership I bought the truck from also sells Chevrolet…I wouldn’t mind a Silverado at this point. It would be an internal transaction…I’m ready!
WTF!
I hope your “LOL” stands for “lots of luck” and NOT “lots of laughs”!
I know the Chevys, Rams, and Fords are laughing!
At this point, Toyota sucks.
Is there an optimistic person out there that can contradict this? I need a salesperson out there to change my mind! Sell me again…why is Toyota the best?
Is there a lawyer out there ready to initiate a class-action lawsuit?
I’ll take a few thousand dollars loss spread out over a 60 month loan to get the hell out of this vehicle!
Read this Toyota!
And Jason…I’m starting to wonder if you work for Toyota.
Sam,
Come here… You need a man hug! I told you before. Go to the Better Business Bureau. Just Google BBB. Takes 10 minutes to file a complaint. I have only been to the dealership once so I have no case but I can tell you if I were getting your kind issues, and treatment. I would file a complaint now, and then let them scramble to make you happy. Also, if everyone in your shoes files complaints with the BBB then a down the road class action lawsuit is easier to make happen. Jason, thanks for your insight on alot of the technical stuff, but that deal about an oil change and car wash…That is BS!
Sam you should and will get your extended warrenty. Once again I say….
Trust Me.
Sam – Your perceptions are out of whack. If you think that this couldn’t happen on a Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Rolls Royce, or Ferrari, you’re wrong. Every car comes with a warranty Sam, and it’s because they NEED them. If you’re looking for something that is flawless from day one and never needs anything done to it, you’ll have to wait for God almighty to build cars. Anything built by man is inherently flawed. While I agree your situation sucks – it does – I don’t think your expectations are reasonable. I worked at a Ford dealership for the better part of a decade and at a Toyota dealership for about 2 years. During my time at both places, new cars with 500 miles came back needing repairs.
As far as a fix is concerned, most people just need an oil change to clear the contaminants and the problem goes away. Your truck needs more. If you had bought the green one instead of the blue one, you might not be having this problem. What can I tell you – luck of the draw. Look at the comments – most people have success.
Finally, as for me working for Toyota, they wish.
Jerry – What will complaining to the BBB accomplish? There’s nothing unethical going on at the dealership – throwing them under the bus with the BBB is just going to piss them off and reduce their incentive to work with you. I *know* how this stuff works – Sam has a shot at a free extension on his truck’s powertrain warranty. As for the oil change and car wash, that was an added bonus for inconvenience. It’s certainly not something that’s owed to anyone.
Just so we’re all 100% clear, the dealer isn’t obligated to do anything but fix the car. Anything else is gravy. If anyone feels entitled to extras beyond the scope of their warranty, they’re being unreasonable.
Look at it this way – if the manufacturer screwed up and accidentally gave you the cash rebate twice, would you give it back after the fact? Hell no. Business is business, right? Yet when a consumer is on the losing side of the equation, they expect something *extra*. That, sir, is the BS. If people could treat car purchases more like business transactions and less like pissing contests, we would all be a little better off.
Jason…when a consumer is on the losing side in a business transaction, it is good business practice to rectify the situation so the consumer comes back next time…there should never be a “tough luck” attitude.
In addition, a recent advertisement in my Newsweek magazine, Toyota boasts that they “spends 23 million dollars a day researching future technologies”.(Pg. 23 in the January 11, 2010 issue)
If Toyota has that type of money to spend, they better make sure they have future consumers. In addition, this exorbitant amount of money they have to spend is from profits they have made from us, the consumer, their bread-and-butter!
Jason, you lose the “pissing contest” and give consumers less leverage with your passive approach to making sure people get what they deserve. Nothing meaningful was ever achieved without the collaboration of others dedicated to a common goal!
I will pursue every avenue I have to make sure all goes right for ME (and maybe my efforts will also help others)…if we sit back and contemplate a perfect vehicle made by GOD almighty as you suggest, we will all look like imbeciles…but to accept a new truck with a rebuilt engine would surely make me look like an imbecile…I don’t think that’s ever going to happen!
Jason…when a consumer is on the losing side in a business transaction, it is good business practice to rectify the situation so the consumer comes back next time…there should never be a “tough luck” attitude.
In addition, a recent advertisement in my Newsweek magazine, Toyota boasts that they “spends 23 million dollars a day researching future technologies”.(Pg. 23 in the January 11, 2010 issue)
If Toyota has that type of money to spend, they better make sure they have future consumers. In addition, this exorbitant amount of money they have to spend is from profits they have made from us, the consumer, their bread-and-butter!
Jason, you lose the “pissing contest” and give consumers less leverage with your passive approach to making sure people get what they deserve. Nothing meaningful was ever achieved without the collaboration of others dedicated to a common goal!
I will pursue every avenue I have to make sure all goes right for ME (and maybe my efforts will also help others)…if we sit back and contemplate a perfect vehicle made by GOD almighty as you suggest, we will all look like imbeciles…but to accept a new truck with a rebuilt engine would surely make me look like an imbecile…I don’t think that’s ever going to happen!
The whole “pissing contest” blows my mind. What do you think Toyota was doing with those stupid commercials. The whole towing capacity and HP is all a pissing contest! As for anther manufacture having issues, yes. Ford had piston slap on 97-99 models of the 4.6, 5.4 and 6.8. They replaced them with new motors unless your was at the limit of the warrenty. Then they replaced it with a FQR. Its funny how Toyota can do no wrong and the customer has to be flexible and understanding. He probably gave up a better running vehicle than this 30k Truck, its a 5,000 lb paperweight as I see it. Useless until it is fixed! Here’s a idea, they should have saved the money from stupid commercials and spent it on more RD! As for BBB, I don’t believe it is all it cracked up to be! Who pays the BBB? The business, so you give them a bad rating and your taking money from yourself if they cancel their membership. Especially if they have been a member for a long time you will NOT affect their rating no matter they did, even with proof! Here’s a idea give him back his truck and let him make the decision.
Jason,
Making a complaint to the BBB doesn’t throw anybody under the bus, and the complaint should be against Toyota not the dealership. The BBB just mediates a dispute to reflect a reasonable result for both parties involved then merely reports the results of such disputes to the general public. If the general public chooses to view the information as a bad reflection of a company and its products, then so be it….Then maybe it is a true reflection of the company in question, thus impacting future sales. See where I’m coming from Sam? “Nothing personal, it’s just Business”.
Jerry…I absolutely know where you’re coming from.
I agree, the BBB complaint is on Toyota, not the dealership.
The dealership has been great to me. They just have the difficult role as the intermediate party.
After I left my comments last night, I re-considered my tone and what I said. I want to apologize for going off half-cocked to Sam, Jerry, and anyone else who read them. I’ll re-post what I meant to say tonight (when I have more time). Rest assured, my ultimate goal is for everyone to be happy. My apologies for sounding like I’m working for “the man” instead of you guys.
***
Jason
Here’s what I *meant* to say:
The warranty is clear in that Toyota’s only obligation is to repair the vehicle. However, in my experience, manufacturers often view this type of situation as a special case. As a general rule, the type of work that a brand-new vehicle needs is usually very limited. Therefore, when there’s a significant repair needed, most auto manufacturers will consider increasing the term of the standard warranty.
The thinking behind offering an extension is that it will bolster a consumer’s confidence and demonstrate the manufacturer’s commitment.
Additionally, the dealership has the ability to offer concessions in an effort to try and make a customer happy. Often times, this is limited by a dealer’s budget. So, instead of spending hundreds of dollars on an extended warranty, a dealer will try and do some little things (like oil changes, details, etc.) to demonstrate that they’re concerned and that they understand. These are meant as a “trade” – they’re simply a gesture.
Based on my experience, I think it’s reasonable to expect a gesture from the dealer, and I think it’s possible that Toyota will extend the warranty. I would hope that these would be viewed as what they are – an attempt at facilitating goodwill.
The trouble is that some consumers don’t view these situations simply as a matter of luck. I suppose that’s hard to do when a consumer only sees a few vehicles in their lifetime, but as someone who has seen thousands of new vehicles delivered I can say that getting a defective vehicle really is nothing more than bad luck.
Some of the consumers who are unlucky enough to have a new vehicle with a defect will take the situation very personally. If expectations aren’t managed, these situations can degrade into a bitter, ego-driven contest that has little to do with the facts.
We all know that the key to resolving conflicts is to put yourself in the other person’s shoes. It’s my hope that Toyota upgrades the warranty of any vehicle that needs a significant engine repair simply out of goodwill. It’s also my hope that anyone who is unlucky enough to buy a vehicle with a defect understands that the manufacturer wasn’t *trying* to build a defective car.
If people can see both sides, they’re much more likely to be happy. That is my ultimate goal – to have a bunch of happy people driving Toyota Tundras. I apologize for coming off as anything other than a person who wants the best for everyone.
As for bringing in the BBB, I don’t see it as a positive step. Unless the situation has reached a point where the dealer, consumer, and manufacturer can’t communicate, bringing in a 3rd party is almost always counter-productive. Again, I say this from experience. Perhaps it’s a perfectly reasonable step to take in this situation…but I would only suggest it as a last resort.
Last but not least, my goal here is to try and help Tundra owners. After writing my comments last night at the end of a long, exhausting day (which isn’t an excuse), I realized that I didn’t do a very good job. Instead of trying to be helpful, I was confrontational. For that, my apologies.
I’m afraid to tell you two guys Sam and Jerry when you file a complaint againt a manufacturer it also goes against the dealership too. How many times the dealership took your vehicle and still hasn’t fixed it. Yes it does go against the dealership. I’ve been down that road against GM just to go to arbitration and GM didn’t even show up. They left a nice letter explaining how great a warranty program they have. Also the BBB really doesn’t do much until you are at your lemon law level. Meaning when I had the dealership try 4 times to fix it but Florida law has 3x for Lemon Law then they get involved. On your first try they won’t get involved with you because you haven’t used up all avenues to get it fixed yet. Now Sam to belive that anonymous telling you LOL is Lots of Luck then you are kidding yourself. He’s here to make sure misery follows him. He’s laughing at everyone. Your situation can and will be fixed once they take and clean the sensors. I would expect also they extend your warranty to cover your engine. You stated the dealership has been a great help. Then that where you got to keep your trust in. If you trust the dealership as you stated then give them that trust to fix it. That’s what makes or breaks your new vehicle is that the dealership to go to bat for you. Willingness to help you with all they can like giving you a rental, free oil change, car wash etc. These are the things dealerships can only offer which comes out of their pocket to try and satisfy their customer. I don’t see anonymous mentioning anything here about how a new 06 Silverado headliner fell 11x and both tailights fell off by themselves. ABS brakes issues with vibration and disc warpage. Or an 03 F-150 with over 11x trying to fix the same check engine light code which was the computer on the truck. At least the Ford dealership did do the same as mention here like rentals, car wash and free oil changes. GM was only intrested if I owned another GM vehicle instead of fixing the one I had. That was the top GM 1/2 ton LT3 $36,000 truck. That’s why I moved on to something else. Like Jason stated it’s the luck of the draw. I understand where Jason is coming from. He was on the other side of the consumer. Yes Jason I did take it personally at a Chevy dealership when a Factory Rep accused my wife and I for pulling down a headliner. He didn’t say once but 3x. After he said it the 3rd time and did what I asked him to do just open and close the driver’s door several times and he did and on the 4th time the headliner fell I saw red. He knew because I told him that another factory rep already told me it was a defect and that GM went with a newer and cheaper manufacturer cut the headliners short so they knew it was a defect. Now Jason as for the BBB and the arbitration I went through did help. I was offered to do either “Repurchase” or “Replace”. He did explain both before you can make a decision. I already knew what I wanted but waited. Repurchase doesn’t do the consumer any good. The manufacturer will buy back your vehicle at current appraisal. Not what you owe if you are buying a vehicle with monthly notes. So what you owe is more than they are paying to buy back you owe the difference. I chose replace. This way they replace your vehicle with a new one compariable to what you got. It has to be close as per arbitrator stated. No out of pocket money needed for this. You don’t lose with this and still you own the same manufacturer vehicle. Then I hit this from the General Manager of the chevy dealership. His email to me was I will never get a new truck (Replacement) from his dealership being the fact it’s not a safety issue. It would have been if it wasn’t for the sunroof I had holding it up at the center. I went through GM school back in 76-77. I worked at a chevy dealership in 77 and my expertise was in the trim department which dealt with replacing healdiners. I did and fixed rattles radio changes on new vehicles under warranty work. In fact most jobs I did was under warranty work. Like Jason stated it can be the luck of the draw. It’s how the dealership takes care of you is the difference. You will notice the attitude from the service adviser when they don’t want to deal with you no more. Nothing like being told from a factory rep that the dealership replaced the headliner 4x just to please you. There you go anonymous another statement by myself that got off topic. You don’t like it then go find another place to hang out at.
As for new vehicles the 07 Prius that has over 35,000 miles on it has yet to have something fixed. As for trucks my 98 Silverado had only three things fixed on it. At 800 miles replaced A/C fan motor which rattled. The next thing replaced at 90,000 miles was an alternator. At 98,000 the A/C compressor burnt up. You can’t complain about that. I would still own that truck if I wasn’t hit from behind and pushed into a city bus which totalled the truck. Since 92 I owned 8 new vehicles 3 GM 3 Fords and now 2 Toyota’s. The Fords had the most issues to be fixed with an average of 20+ visits per vehicle in 3 years of ownership. GM I found tries to get out of doing as much warranty work as they can. This isn’t just the 06 but my 92 Sonoma they did the same.
Mickey,
Just because someone complains to the BBB doesn’t mean that it is going to reflect badly on the manufacturer or the dealership, unless they don’t do what’s right. And in this scenario all Sam is looking for is an extended warrenty for his brand new truck that is getting extensive work done to it. As would I, or anyone else who had any balls to stand up for their rights. Sam, have you gotten that extended warranty in writing yet? If not, then they still have not satisfied his concerns. But your still making payments, aren’t you Sam? They may be fixing what is wrong mechanically, but they still need to fix the customer’s piece of mind.
We all know that when you put this many working parts together stuff is bound to happen, but it is the company that makes it right is what makes it a “good product” or not.
As far as Ford, Chevy, Nissan, whatever?….. I now own a Tundra which why I’m on this site.
Jerry I agree with you and Sam for that extended warranty. When you finally do the 3rd attempt in getting it fixed and it fails then as you can see with what happen with me it took time but finally the BBB did do something. Where it fell short was after the final attempt they only give you a couple of weeks if something goes wrong before they close the case. They close the cases way too early the way I see it. Yes I hope Sam gets it in writing. I would hate for someone to go through what I did for both trucks I had. Where does your confidence go when you have the GM, Service Manager, Service Adviser, Laison, and Salesman all come to you and state we have no idea how to fix your truck. That was done by the Ford dealership I was at. THere and what happen several weeks later is why I switched from Ford and went to Chevy. Of all the luck I got the expensive GM truck that needed duct tape.
UPDATE
Hello All,
I am writing to provide an update to my ealier post. Yesterday(14JAN10) my check engine light came on while coming back from lunch for the 4th time. I parked the truck and when I turned the engine off, it made this sound from the engine compartment. Best way to describe the sound ( Like a A/C compressor going into defrost). Anyways, I called the service department and they arranged a tow. I kinda feel bad, because I work in an industrial facility, and when the tow truck arrived, everyone was getting off from work.
Today, I went to the dealership to pick up a rental “Highlander” and needed to get a few things out of my truck. I walked back to the service bay and the tech had the whole top part of my engine taken apart. I was told that they are following Toyota’s Tech assist in locating the problem. I was told I may not have my truck back for 2 weeks or so. So theres my story. Ill update later.
Oh, and to the service department, they have been helpful. After the third visit for the check engine light, I could tell the atmosphere changed. This would be because I am now eligible for Lemon Law in my state. I did however state to the service manager that I would be giving Toyota the benefit of doubt. This time(4th), the techs are taking and hopefully successful at fixing the problem. If Toyota stops taking it seriously, then Ill contimplate lemon law.
Now that everyone knows Mickey’s entire history again, I would use the lemon law CSM! Reason being I don’t want to see what else it looming in the future. We use to call the “Monday trucks”. Built on Monday hinting just returned to work, don’t want to be there and your mind is not in what your doing.
Anonymous – Who is “we” – are you a GM employee or something?? It’s surprisingly easy to compare IP addresses.
Jason if anything anonymous just killed the union. Is this the way union members are suppose to work there anonymous? On Mondays union workers work partially instead putting what they are getting paid for? Just because it’s Monday they don’t have to care what type of job they do? You crack me up anonymous. Yes Jason notice he has a “Cybil” personality. He uses his 3 personalities he has Me, Myself and I. That constitues the “WE”. It goes to show there anonymous not all people are like you (Thank God). CSM is staying upbeat about what has happen to him. Like I said before anonymous you have no clue about the word “Empathy”. You know the rule there anonymous don’t let the door hit you in the rear.
Good info. I have had similar problem. Dealership changed the oil on Saturday. Light stayed on. They said they will have to pull the pan, but need to get permission from Toyota on Monday.
Will keep you advised.
Again, thanks for all the good info. I feel better and hope to have my Tundra back and running without the check engine light on – soon.
Mickey – Agreed. Hard to believe a staunch advocate of domestic trucks can argue superior quality when they also talk about the whole “Monday” truck scenario. Which is it – are the workers conscientious and committed to quality, or are they spiteful people who do the bare minimum? Clearly the answer is both, but it’s hard to get excited about a UAW vehicle when the reality is that “Monday” trucks exist.
Richard – Thanks!
I like to look at problems from an outside point of view.
Toyota has a specific problem with some of their new trucks. In reguards to the P0012/P0022 error code, this problem is either a false error, or a real error. I would like to think the new 4.6 Engine was well designed. (As it was mainly constructed from the design of the 5.7) I really like my truck, and would like to see the problem fixed. I have the type of luck that if I did get a new truck, I would have the same problem. Like I said earlier, I will be on-board so long Toyota takes the problem seriously. By saying that, I am not alloting Toyota an unlimited number of tries to fix the problem. At some point, you have to cut your losses and run. Take Care All.
They pulled the pan to remove VVTI on Bank 1 to clean off reistall valve and test VVTI. I have no ideas what this means. Perhaps Jason will comment. If I understood the service writer correctly, they now have a TSB out.
Good luck to those still having problems.
CSM – Well said. Good luck.
Richard – That’s what other dealers have been doing to fix the issue on other trucks. The idea is that the contaminant is getting into the cam position sensors and clogging them up so they aren’t working correctly. As a result of malfunctioning sensors, the ECM (computer) shuts off the variable valve timing (intake) system, or VVTi, because it can’t accurately measure where the cams are. The computer then sets a check-engine light because it knows that one or more of the cam position sensors aren’t working correctly.
The tsb for code p0022 is now to replace the intake camshaft. This is the plan for my truck. They say that although the check engine light has been off for sometime now, that several restarts of the engine will cancel the code itself. I thought everything was okay since the light has been off. The dealership says that the greatest difference will come in emissions. They say I need to have this repair to ensure that I won’t have any state inspection issues later down the road. (Apparently others have decided not to take the fix because they perceive that all is okay now that the light is off…what do you think?) In addition, they said that since I have the lifetime engine warranty covering all internally lubricated parts, that I should rest assured that this will not compromise the integrity of my engine (and if it did, then I’m covered anyways).
I’m awaiting the dealership to notify me of the arrival of the parts. They anticipate no more than a two-day repair. I have already established I don’t want a small sedan-like loaner. The dealership seems to be complying on all requests so far.
I am also negotiating some parts (like running boards and fog lights, etc.). I’m hoping I can get a few things at wholesale prices to ameliorate my strife. I already have the free oil change, the lifetime powertrain warranty, and lifetime engine warranty covering all internally lubricated parts…so I guess I’ll also ask for the car wash too…anything else?
Last thing…now I’m waiting to see if my accelerator is affected by this new recall.
Next thing up….the A.R.E. Z-series truck cap with Yakima rack will be installed in a few days…
Oh…one more thing…for those of you that have the full cloth front seat with fold down center console (not the two buckets with center console), do you feel that the left thigh bolster is less built up and less supportive than the right side?
Sam,
You said you have a lifetime warrenty on the engine and powertrain. Can you expand on that? How did you get it. Did they give it to you in writing etc.
So are you saying that your dealership said if you had the check engine light come on and had the P0022 that you the truck needs this repair even though the check engine light is no longer an issue. Is this because you had to bring it in a couple of times, or is the repair necessary regardless? My point being, my light came on once and they changed the oil later that day and the truck has been fine since, but this sounds like I may still have an issue. ??? Anyone else hearing the same thing as Sam?
Jerry…the lifetime warranty on the engine and drivetrain covers all lubricated internal parts. This warranty comes standard with the typical warranty that comes with a new purchase. It is not a warranty I had to buy or that they are giving me because of my troubles. I do not believe that all dealerships participate in this offer to their customers. I do know that if I ever have a problem that the warranty is recognized by all Toyota dealerships.
As far as the light…since my light came on more than once, my situation may be different from yours. My dealership says they have personally only dealt with two vehicles total having this problem…mine and one other. The dealership told me that the other owner was ready to forget about it and was satisfied that all was well since the light hadn’t come on in a while. The service department felt this was a poor decision on the owner’s part. The light can reset itself after several ignitions and the problem may only have “appeared” to have disappeared. Again, I was told that the fix would mainly affect emissions. However, as we discussed the movements and actions behind a properly operating camshaft, it seems that both acceleration and gas mileage are affected as well…when the cam is retarded, the opening of the valves, the spray of the fuel, and the combustion of the air and fuel mix are not harmoniously occurring at 100%. I believe that I read that an over-retarded camshaft can be good for more torque when purposely geared and timed for that…however I think it is bad for mpg and quicker acceleration.
Anyways, I think I’m going to put my trust in them to do the right thing. I hope that some experts out there can either validate this decision or present evidence otherwise.
In addition, I wish Toyota could get itself off the news for all of these bad things. All of these allegations that they knew about sticky accelerator pedals and injurues and deaths associated with them, makes me feel like I’m truly witnessing a turning point of a once-great car manufacturer. Let’s see some improvements! Some real bad luck…
This issue has been resolved with a TSB – read the full description here:
https://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2010/01/26/2010-toyota-tundra-gear-tsb/
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